Need options on township with no sound ordinance and neighbor with very loud stereo

[Artmakerjenny]

zigner the police WANT to do something but can't. No ordinance to enforce.
But I've been emailing with the town super, (who happens to be new, maybe better than the previous one.) At least he's going to take it up with legal. Best start I heard in years. To be continued.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Again, in absence of a local law, your option is go through the process of enacting a law.

The police CANNOT enforce a law that doesn't exist.

 

[quincy]

They appear to be lying to you if you are in Bangor Township in Van Buren County.

Bangor Township certainly does have a noise ordinance. See Ordinance 04.

Ordinances | Van Buren County, MI (vanburencountymi.gov)

"Breach of the Peace: No person shall make or assist in making any noise, disturbance, trouble or improper diversion, by which the peace and good order of the Township of Bangor are disturbed."

$500 fine or 90 days in county lockup, or both.



I told you already. It's a private nuisance. Read the statute:

Michigan Legislature - Section 600.2940

It does not appear to be something that you can do in small claims court because you are seeking injunctive relief without any monetary damages.

There are lots of lawyers in Van Buren County.

As a note: In Van Buren County, there are 4 small cities (populations under 4000), several small villages, and 18 townships. Bangor Township is just one small township out of the 18. Van Buren County as a whole is not a highly populated area (approximately 76,000 residents).

There are not “lots of lawyers” located in the County so Artmakerjenny, depending on where she lives, might have to travel a distance to find an attorney who can help her.

Although a private nuisance suit might be something to discuss with a lawyer, in order to be successful with such a suit there should be a showing of significant harm caused by the unreasonable noise. Most noise ordinances will only cover noise generated between the hours of 10pm to 7am so anything outside those hours might not be judged unreasonable.

 

[stealth2]

I think you may have meant “might not be judged reasonable”, q…

 

[quincy]

I think you may have meant “might not be judged reasonable”, q…

Well, my sentence was definitely a confusing one but, when the sentence is untangled, I actually meant what I wrote.

Noises made between the hours of 10pm and 7am (when most people sleep) could be unreasonable. The same noises between 7am and 10pm (when most people are awake) might not be unreasonable.

People generally and naturally make more noise during the day when they are awake than they do at night when they sleep (although those who sleep with snorers might challenge that assumption).

Here is a link to a Michigan case from 2009 that discusses the elements of both public nuisances and private nuisances. The case involves a home in a residential area that is located next to a bar in an area zoned commercial so the facts differ but the law doesn’t.

http://www.michbar.org/file/opinions/appeals/2009/041609/42435.pdf

There will need to be significant harm shown and not just irritation or annoyance.

 

[Artmakerjenny]

Ok, I'm not in Bangor though they are close enough and comparable in size. I'm in Keeler and there is NO sound ordinance at all.

Mind you, the last time I tried to get them to enact one was years ago when the corner bar started blasting outdoor speakers. I got a dozen home owners to show up at a meeting and they still wouldn't do anything. Bar burned down so end of problem. But...We now have a new supervisor, and a few new board members. And this super is at least going to "look into legal" which is more promising than before.
He said to me,wait I'll go copy it....
"Legal means its supported by methodology and law. Enforceable means you go to court and can win on the merits.
Copy, paste and send out the cop is a terrible approach. If Keeler adopts a mouse ordinance it will be one that is legal and won’t be thrown out by the court."

When he mentions copy and paste I had previously mentioned Bangor HAS a sound ordinance, perhaps find out what there is, maybe talk to their board and see if there have been any issues enforcing it and copy what they do.
I also pointed out these same people kept letting their chickens wander onto my property and there IS an ordinance for that. Only took one visit from a cop and it stopped. Doubt anyone would have to go to court. But there needs to be something on the books for the cop to "enforce." Right now we have nothing.


And yes I DO at least have the option of small claims but again that will have to wait for a next time so I can document how long and how loud.
As for it being too loud? MY SPEAKER pumps out 130 db. Which is the same as a jack hammer on cement. And it was totally drowned out by theirs. (No wonder everyone in that family shouts everything, probably all half deaf.) So when there is a next time, I will drag out mine and blast it on video, and show how it's almost impossible to hear over their crap. I'm sure any judge would agree this is above and beyond too loud.

 

[quincy]

Ok, I'm not in Bangor though they are close enough and comparable in size. I'm in Keeler and there is NO sound ordinance at all.

Mind you, the last time I tried to get them to enact one was years ago when the corner bar started blasting outdoor speakers. I got a dozen home owners to show up at a meeting and they still wouldn't do anything. Bar burned down so end of problem. But...We now have a new supervisor, and a few new board members. And this super is at least going to "look into legal" which is more promising than before.
He said to me,wait I'll go copy it....
"Legal means its supported by methodology and law. Enforceable means you go to court and can win on the merits.
Copy, paste and send out the cop is a terrible approach. If Keeler adopts a mouse ordinance it will be one that is legal and won’t be thrown out by the court."

When he mentions copy and paste I had previously mentioned Bangor HAS a sound ordinance, perhaps find out what there is, maybe talk to their board and see if there have been any issues enforcing it and copy what they do.
I also pointed out these same people kept letting their chickens wander onto my property and there IS an ordinance for that. Only took one visit from a cop and it stopped. Doubt anyone would have to go to court. But there needs to be something on the books for the cop to "enforce." Right now we have nothing.


And yes I DO at least have the option of small claims but again that will have to wait for a next time so I can document how long and how loud.
As for it being too loud? MY SPEAKER pumps out 130 db. Which is the same as a jack hammer on cement. And it was totally drowned out by theirs. (No wonder everyone in that family shouts everything, probably all half deaf.) So when there is a next time, I will drag out mine and blast it on video, and show how it's almost impossible to hear over their crap. I'm sure any judge would agree this is above and beyond too loud.

You do not need a law or ordinance to pursue a private nuisance lawsuit. A noise can be a nuisance even if it does not violate an established law or ordinance. What you do need, however, is proof of harm and a showing that the noise is unreasonable.

 

[stealth2]

Yes, q, your sentence made sense when I reread more carefully. (Watching the neighbor’s toddler, plus my daughter’s two, so three under three today. Already eying the wine for tonight!)

 

[Zigner]

Yes, q, your sentence made sense when I reread more carefully. (Watching the neighbor’s toddler, plus my daughter’s two, so three under three today. Already eying the wine for tonight!)

You use wine to get them to sleep too???

 

[quincy]

Yes, q, your sentence made sense when I reread more carefully. (Watching the neighbor’s toddler, plus my daughter’s two, so three under three today. Already eying the wine for tonight!)

My sentences often make more sense after several glasses of wine. Or at least after several glasses of wine, you really don’t care at all what my sentences say.

 

[stealth2]

You use wine to get them to sleep too???

LOL. My SIL offers me a shot of bourbon most evenings.

 

[Artmakerjenny]

I seem to have started a new thread about this since the problem is still going on and the board will not do a thing.
Hope someone can delete the new one.

So short question is what KIND of lawyer do I need to look up for some help with private nuisance lawsuit. Yea I could walk into small claims, but it's better to go armed with information, proper evidence etc. I would be fine with paying for a consultation, but I don't know what kind of lawyer this falls under.

 

[quincy]

I seem to have started a new thread about this since the problem is still going on and the board will not do a thing.
Hope someone can delete the new one.

So short question is what KIND of lawyer do I need to look up for some help with private nuisance lawsuit. Yea I could walk into small claims, but it's better to go armed with information, proper evidence etc. I would be fine with paying for a consultation, but I don't know what kind of lawyer this falls under.

You might want to try MI-Resolve, a mediation service offered through the Michigan Supreme Court’s State Court Administrative Office. The mediators handle disputes between neighbors and you don’t need a lawyer and you don’t have to file a lawsuit suit first.

https://drcwm.org/mediation/civil-mediation/

If you want to file a small claims suit - heard in district court - and you have evidence of compensable damages, following is a link on taking a small claims action to court. You cannot have an attorney for Michigan small claims cases. The damages awarded are monetary damages.

https://michiganlegalhelp.org/resources/money-debt-and-consumer-issues/taking-small-claims-case-court

If you are thinking of a private nuisance suit, that would be handled in the circuit court rather than district court and you would want an attorney assisting. With a private nuisance suit, however, you must be able to show significant harm. Relief would be granted in the form of an injunction. You could look for an attorney or law firm that handles land use/property cases.

I am sorry about your parrot.

(I will ask the moderator to delete your other thread)

 

[Artmakerjenny]

Quincy thank you SO much. Very help on multiple levels. Thank you thank you thank you.

 

[quincy]

Quincy thank you SO much. Very help on multiple levels. Thank you thank you thank you.

I only hope you are somehow able to find some relief from the relentless noise. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for the thanks.