Neighbor with camera pointing at my daughters window

[Quaere]

vdavid: I understand your problem, but as already stated the fact that one of your windows is picked up by the camera does not prove his goal is to film the window. I presume his stated reason for the camera is security.

Most homes that put a security camera out to cover their yard are also picking up at least one window on a neighbor’s house. Have you ever offered to let him put the camera in YOUR yard so it faces his house for security purposes? He can actually get better coverage of his own property by placing it across the property line.

I would NOT put out a sign that implies in any way that this guy is specifically trying to film your window. When he sues you for defamation he will claim he only wants to deter criminal activity around his home and you, in your paranoia, insist on believing it’s all about you and your daughters.

He will say that if his goal were to film the girls he OBVIOUSLY would have given up long ago when you blocked the window. Should he forgo his security measures because he has a paranoid neighbor?

I can see a news organization covering the legal dilemma you face. It's a topical issue. You could give them a call, just don't go making wild accusations about the guy and his reasons for having the camera.

You can’t build a higher fence but I doubt there is any ordinance against planting a natural screen. Have you thought about putting a nice trellis or some tall shrubs between the window and the camera’s view? That way the window wouldn’t have to be covered. You would be changing the prior view from the window, but it sounds like right now there is no view or even sunlight available.

All of the above aside, that camera wouldn’t last a night if it were pointed at my house.

 

[Quaere]

So you wouldn't do something because the neighbor might have a very slim chance of successfully suing you...

There are two reasons I wouldn’t put up a sign.

First, the circumstances of this situation don’t even come close to qualifying as evidence that there is an inappropriate reason for the camera. The fact that the guy is into electronics and filming things, is as likely to be a harmless hobby as not. Publicly implying that someone is a pervert or pedophile is something I wouldn’t do to my worst enemy unless I was positive the accusation was true. The accusation can be devastating to the accused and when the accused is innocent, the magnitude of the wrong he suffers is incomprehensible.

Second, apart from the moral reasons to refrain from making unfounded accusations, the legal ramifications can be substantial. Whether innocent or not, I would expect the neighbor to sue over a sign. He doesn’t need an atty to file a complaint. However, the typical defendant starts racking up fees soon after he is served. The defendant has too much at stake to risk self-representation.

"My next door neighbor is videotaping my daughters! Watch out for your kids!"

The above statement is a complete misrepresentation of what is happening with that camera. It implies you have actual knowledge of defamatory facts. Besides that, he isn’t taping the girls because the window is covered! It’s a slam-dunk defamation per se WITH malice claim.

"The man next door has a video camera pointed at my young daughters bedroom window. He refuses to move it. Watch your children around this house.===>".

The above is high risk as well.

You've got 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech rights, so long as nothing on the sign is untrue.

The truth of the statement is not determined by whether each word is true. True facts can create an untrue statement if pertinent qualifying information is omitted or the true facts are presented in a context that creates a false impression. A statement is only true if the message conveyed is true.

The key to posting a sign is in the wording. You can't say "My Neighbor is a Pedophile", but you CAN say "My Neighbor is Videotaping my Daughters".

The entire point of the sign is to convey the message that the neighbor is doing something improper. If he is not doing anything improper (or you can’t prove he is), you have a problem.

You could safely put up a sign that accurately recounts the full facts of the situation and let the public make up their own minds about him.

This was a long way of saying a sign will present a good chance for the neighbor to sue and win. The cost of defending could be tens of thousands of dollars. A sign would be a VERY high risk move.

But you WOULD do something that would almost certainly result in criminal charges?

I exaggerated the speed with which I might be able to get rid of the camera. I am more reasonable than that. My first step would be to talk to the guy and tell him I don’t like being on camera. I would offer to put the camera in my yard to face his house. If he refused that offer I’d go to plan B.

B. If I could block the camera view without making any great sacrifice of my own view or sunlight, I would do so. If I had a great view from the window and didn’t want to block it, I’d talk to the neighbor again. I'd be a bit more forceful in our second chat. If he still wouldn’t compromise, I’d go to plan C.

C. Plan C might involve shining big lights right into his camera from my property. The lights might also shine in his windows, but I have a right to use light for security in MY yard.

D. By the time I’ve tried plans A-C, local vandals will probably know about the camera. In one of those fateful coincidences that sometimes occur, my neighbor will probably find it’s too costly to try to keep a camera in that location. In the VERY unlikely event that I may suffer the terrible injustice of being wrongly convicted for destruction of property, I can assure you the consequences of such a conviction would pale in comparison to defending against a defamation suit.

Risk of civil suit for sign = TOO High
Risk of conviction for destruction of property = Very Low

 

[justalayman]

quaere, the lights, in many areas, you would be breaking the law.

as far as the cam "somehow" being damaged; you would not be the first person who was caught on camera as they broke that very camera or were surprised to discover there were cameras that you did not know about.

If you are going to elude to that possibility, I would simply suggest going over and kicking the **** out of the guy. I would get much more satisfaction doing that and it would have a more lasting effect.

I haven't looked for it and I have forgotten your state but, in some states you can sue for a tort called "nuisance". It may be applicable. You also need to research the stalking laws in your state.

 

[Quaere]

quaere, the lights, in many areas, you would be breaking the law.

I know, it was just an example of an option. It might also be interesting to put a big mirror facing the camera.

as far as the cam "somehow" being damaged; you would not be the first person who was caught on camera as they broke that very camera or were surprised to discover there were cameras that you did not know about.

Anyone that stupid deserves to be caught. I recommend leaving a glove that is too small for you at the scene. It seems to work, lol.

If you are going to elude to that possibility, I would simply suggest going over and kicking the **** out of the guy. I would get much more satisfaction doing that and it would have a more lasting effect.

The risk of getting caught is kind of high and the potential consequences for such a crime may actually be worse than defending a defamation suit.

I haven't looked for it and I have forgotten your state but, in some states you can sue for a tort called "nuisance". It may be applicable.

Good suggestion. It may also be worth checking out Invasion of Privacy - Intrusion of Solitude (physical or electronic intrusion into one's private quarters).

 

[appylon]

How about a letter to the school where he works. Don't accuse him of anything let them read between the lines. You could place his picture in your local rag sheet asking if anyone has seen him around kidds? Oh and take lots of pictures of him and smile (you don't even need film). There is much much moor you can do,depends on how far you want to take this......

 

[peppylady]

I had a camera pointed at my window for at least 6 months

I have a neighbor that had a camera on his dashboard of his car that was pointing directly at my front door. We first thought it was a fake camera but then we realized that everytime we went outside this idiot would come out and follow us everywhere we went. We live in a condo. He would follow us to the dumpster, to walk the dogs, to our car. He is weird, and a sicko. My daughter was so scared of him. She went outside one night and put a blanket over is windshield to block the camera. He came running outside screaming at her. He was sitting right inside in front of a monitor, monitoring everything we did. He had that camera pointing right in my diningroom window. We called the sheriff. They told us he had a right to have a camer there. WRONG...well I called my attorney and he threatened him with a DVI...well he took the camera off his car and put it in his window of his bedroom facing again toward our door. Well we ended up getting a DVI against him and the judge balled him out in court. He now has to stay 20 feet away from us for 5 years. So take him to court and get DVI. The man is a sicko. No one has to have a camera directed at their home.

 

[vdavid23]

vdavid: I would NOT put out a sign that implies in any way that this guy is specifically trying to film your window. When he sues you for defamation he will claim he only wants to deter criminal activity around his home and you, in your paranoia, insist on believing it’s all about you and your daughters.

He will say that if his goal were to film the girls he OBVIOUSLY would have given up long ago when you blocked the window. Should he forgo his security measures because he has a paranoid neighbor?

I would agree that this could be viewed as extreem paranoia, but consider these facts and draw your own conclustions.

1. He always hides the cameras when he puts them up.
2. He never does it during the day. He always does it late at night when we are in bed. The only reason I discovered them is because of the night vision red glow. I work out of the home and I usually start working at 2:00 am because I am a programmer. When I took a smoke break on my patio that's when I discovered the red glow.
3. We went through mediation and he sign a contract which states "Both parties agree that it will be ok to reinstall the security camera so that it doesn't record in anyway that it intrudes on our privacy."
4. He told us during mediation he recently bought this camera and still had the reciept and was returning it. (This one was silver)
5. The last camera I just discovered was blue and it looked very beat up and old.
6. The police report I obtained said he had High tech recording equipment and unmarked DVD's laying around his house.
7. He has high powered WIFI device pointed at out house.
8.During mediation he said that the night vision was not that good because of the poor lighting. Since then he has installed security lights that aim at out house.

Paranoid, maybe. When you start adding things up he has not to this day done anything normal.

How long could he have had this camera up without us knowing? Remember, the last one I discovered was almost black. We only bought this house 4 years ago, so we knew nothing about this neighbor. The last owners of this house had daughters too and they stayed in the same room my girl's do now. His girl's were between 15-18 years old. Mine are 12 and 13.

Things do not add up so I can't say it is extreem paranoia just a very concerned parent.

 

[vdavid23]

Just to give you a heads up I have this time taken proactive measures to stop this since the police refuse to do anything.

1. I planted vines along the fence now.
2. I raised the privacy fence by using landscape latis.
3. Put tin foil on my daughter’s window.
4. Put insect netting up around my gazebo so he can't see onto our patio.

I have already put out $500.00 to do all of this. The sad this about this is I have to forego the security of my family just so he can claim the right for security in a neighborhood that there is no crime.

We have lived in this neighborhood now for over 4 years and left the house with the garage door open by mistake and have returned with everything still there. We have a neighborhood watch and all the neighbors watch out for each other here.

One last point. He claims he wanted the cameras up because of people who could tag his house. Which makes sense, I would do the same thing, but this is the side of his house that faces my house. I have never heard of anyone tagging the side of a house or let alone a house. I see them doing fences, but a side of the house?

Things do not add up if you think about all his reasons for doing this.

 

[vdavid23]

What is a DVI ?

I never heard of this and is this like a restraining order?

 

[vdavid23]

Quick question?

The ticket I got was CRS 18-4-503

My question is this, the research I have done says there has to be proof of criminal intent. I should be able to request when I appear for this charge that the ticket be dropped?

Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[Quaere]

Vdavid, I was not saying that *I* think you are paranoid. I was saying that will be HIS version of the facts.

If he’s a techie I’m not surprised to hear he has unmarked DVDs. He may regularly record things off TV like I do. He may have a digital video camera that he uses for other purposes.

As I said before, the best placement for his camera is on your property facing his property. It sounds like there is a long history of trouble between the two of you but if there is any way to have a civil discussion with him, I would ask him to put the camera on your property. If he refuses that request, it does lend credence to your belief that the camera is less about his security and more about invading your privacy or harassing you.

I jumped the fence went into his yard and took the camera down.

I want to do 2 of the 7 options.

1. A jury trial
2. Appeal to a higher court

A jury trial is much more complicated than a bench trial. If you are pro se, I’d go with the bench in this case.

You can’t appeal until you have a judgment in the lower court. Then, you have to have grounds for an appeal (you must point to something in the handling or decision of the trial that was unfair or an error of law). An appeal is not simply a second chance to try the case.

My question is this, the research I have done says there has to be proof of criminal intent.

The proof of intent element is there to protect people that unknowingly trespassed on someone’s property. You intentionally trespassed to take the law into your own hands. The court is going to want to impress upon you that you had better not cross that line again. Your situation has escalated to the point where someone is going to get hurt.

I should be able to request when I appear for this charge that the ticket be dropped?

Of course you can request it. However, it’s clear you are losing control and it’s the court’s job to get you back under control. No matter how much the court sympathizes with you, it is not going to excuse your aggressive actions.

It sounds like the camera is the neighbor’s response to some prior problem with you. If the law allows the camera to be there, you need to give up the power struggle with the guy and focus on defensive strategies.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Go with a bench trial, tell it to the judge, and most importantly, make sure the judge knows you already realize how wrong your actions were, that you recognize your neighbor has rights, and that you will respect his rights in the future. Tell him you are working to resolve the issue by taking measures on your own property and that you are confident there will be no further incidents of yard rage.

 

[peppylady]

Look anyone that has a camera pointed to his neighbor's house is up to no good it is not normal. He is up to something and he will continue doing it because he has gotten away with up to this point. Consult an attorney and see what he says. If it was pointing to my girls windows I would be having a fit. YOu have a right to privacy. This guy is a nut. That camera is a invared camera and can only take pictures at night. I bet he has been watching your girls for 4 years. Do sonething about it. You have a right to privacy like everyone else

 

[vdavid23]

As I said before, the best placement for his camera is on your property facing his property. It sounds like there is a long history of trouble between the two of you but if there is any way to have a civil discussion with him, I would ask him to put the camera on your property. If he refuses that request, it does lend credence to your belief that the camera is less about his security and more about invading your privacy or harassing you.

II am not sure if you read my original posts. You give good advice, but you are correct I have lost control for several reasons.

1. He was instructed through mediation to never do this again and he signed an agreement.
2. It is very strange that my girl's come up for the summer to spend time with me and the camera re-appears again.
3. Now he has better lighting for his camera since he got us use to the security lights he put up and the glare on their bedroom window. Now it is time to test the water.
4. We already made several offers like the one about the fence. I even offered to buy him another camera without a microphone and without night vision. (Our cost) if he would not put this camera back up again.
5. He was also instructed through mediation to let us know when he put another camera up and to keep it from escalating again he was to invite us over to see what he could see.

We finally got to mediation only after he smashed the light I put up to keep him from using the night vision.

In fact, I have never in all my life had any problems with any of my neighbors. I have always kept to myself. I shovel my neighbor’s walks in the winter to help them out.

This all started he claimed over his dog. His dog had been barking for months and would not stop. I have a 6 month old son that the dogs barking kept waking him up. I finally wrote him a nice note asking him if he was aware of this and could we help.

I am not kidding, in my note I said he could bring his dog by our house and I would watch him for free if this would keep the dog from barking during the day. The next day I found the note thrown over my fence. I then called animal control and they said they had several complaints from other people and they instructed him to do something like buy a dog barking collar.

He also said he could not afford a dog barking collar, but he could afford a high end WIFI camera?

I said all that to say this, up to this point I never bothered looking at his house, but the barking was so bad I wondered what could be making this dog bark so much. That's when I noticed the camera which was a WIFI camera. The point is, after he took the camera down the dog has not barked since.

So again, it is not that I don't want to help my neighbors this has gotten way too creepy. He lives alone. He has no kids of his own. Since we have been here we have never seen anyone come by his house. Things do not add up. In fact, when we tried called him about his dog instead of the note his number is unlisted.

Again, this maybe our imagination running wild, but this is my wife and kids and I will do what I need to protect them if the law, the courts and mediation won't.

We have a RIGHT to privacy and this is totally amazing that people can do this and claim security reasons and I have to live like I am a prisoner in our own home.

A jury trial is much more complicated than a bench trial. If you are pro se, I’d go with the bench in this case.

You can’t appeal until you have a judgment in the lower court. Then, you have to have grounds for an appeal (you must point to something in the handling or decision of the trial that was unfair or an error of law). An appeal is not simply a second chance to try the case.

This again is good advice.

 

[secsuper]

the sign sounds good to me....since you cant prove it is pointing directly in the window write that your neighbor is pointing a camera at your house and add the caution with your kids thing....why dont you put up your own camera and tape him. he might be doing things at night you dont already know about. also im not sure if you should waste time pushing the ticket...you did tresspass. i understand why but youd have to get a pretty understanding judge and even still in that respect the law is pretty clear. make sure you tell all the other parents in the neighborhood.

 

[vdavid23]

I am actually going to follow the advice of the last person and request a Bench Trial. I never knew I could do that.

Again, I don't think I would have ever jumped the fence and pulled the camera down, but it seemed very strange that my girl's come up for the summer to stay with me and out comes another camera. If I am reading this correctly they are going to have to prove that I had criminal intent when I did this.

I also have a copy of the mediation agreement.


CHOICE OF EVILS - In criminal law, the defense that a person was justified in committing an offense because doing so avoided a greater harm. See Manual § 5.9 and C.R.S. § 18-1-702.

ATTEMPT - An attempt is a substantial step towards the commission of an offense, taken with the requisite criminal intent. See C.R.S. § 18-2-101.