Placement Question/Unfit Mother??

[Gwenillian]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WI

I need to know if my ex has a case - I believe he plans on trying to state that I am unfit.

History:
1. We have joint custody for everything, but I have primary placement ~ 80% to his 20%.
2. There are two children - 13 & 11. They attend a private school per the CO.
3. For 3 years prior to this school year our youngest son had problems with school. During that time I asked my ex's permission each of the first two years to have our youngest (now 11) tested by a psychologist for ADD/ADHD and/or other learning issues. This was also advised - verbally only - by DS's teachers each year, but they would not put it into writing in his file. Ex refused the first time & did not respond the second time.
4. All three years I would have to pretty much drag son through homework. As in literally go to his classroom to make sure he wrote down assignments, make sure he brought home all materials, watch him do all work, go through it to make sure it was actually done (and not just filled in with completely random answers). Even then, DS would refuse to turn in the work until/unless the teacher made him in the morning. Any time I did not do this (in an attempt to get DS to take any portion of the responsibility), he would begin to fail & I would get emails threatening to take away the kids because DS11 was failing.
5. Last school year the teacher did put it into writing near the end of the school year. Ex finally agreed & we agreed on a psychologist to do the testing. This psychologist specializes in adolescent males & adult men - which is part of the reason I picked him. He is also the only one qualified in my area (that is also covered by the kids' insurance) to do neuropsychological testing. Psychologist found there is a learning disability & there are some psychological issues that also influence his behavior at school.
6. This year the psychologist decided that what DS11 (now 6th grade) needs is the natural consequences for his refusal to do his work without being dragged through it. Therefore instructed me to be basically hands off - I can remind him once or twice, but that is it. None of the rest. This began at the beginning of this school year. Our son immediately began failing (as predicted). The teachers are aware of the therapy & have had email conversations with the psychologist to clarify some different points. None of us particularly like it, but the teachers (he has several this year) seem to agree that it's necessary at this point - particularly given the fact that DS doesn't seem to care about any of the other consequences and rewards any of us have tried.

Dad stated he didn't agree with the therapy & wanted me to go back to what I was doing before. I refused as it was clearly not helping & in fact would probably make things worse. I offered Dad time to get a second opinion, but was never responded to me about that. As far as I know, he never got a second opinion. However, Dad did send a nasty email or two to the teachers & psychologist about how this is really all due to my "selfish motives" (not really sure what he means) and that I am a terrible parent for following this therapy.

Fast forward to Christmas - I receive an email from dad requesting primary placement of both kids because the 13 yr old apparently wants it. Not wanting to outright deny it, but wanting to see what is going on I ask DS13 how he feels & he says he wants the change so that he has unlimited video games & can do what he wants. He does not want the school change that would come with the switch (we live 1 hour away from each other). Unsure of how to respond, I decided to wait a few weeks & check in with DS13 again after the holidays. Last week I get another email now stating that the request for a change of primary placement is due to DS11's grades & implying that due to him failing two quarters and being held back next year (school policy) I am unfit.

Does he have a good chance of winning this? When I went ahead with the therapy I gave plenty of time for a second opinion, but he chose not to have one done - does that matter? He didn't actually disagree with the therapy until DS11 actually started failing - does that matter? The psychologist states he would be happy to testify as to the reason for the therapy & why what dad wants won't help - I'm assuming this is good for me.... am I mistaken? Up until this year with the new therapy (because I dragged him through), DS11 was doing pretty well in school - by the end of the quarter he usually had A's, B's and maybe a C or two; DS13 always gets all A's. Other than the wanting more video games & less rules, both kids seem happy here - I'm assuming a GAL would take into account the reasons DS13 wants to move? What, if anything, do I need to be concerned about?

Thanks in advance for any insight/advice.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[Ohiogal]

Does the school have an IEP for junior? If not that is a problem and quite frankly your child should be removed from the private school and placed in a public school or other private school that will follow the law regarding an IEP.

If you have not pushed for an IEP, I could see dad prevailing. Also there is a substantial change in circumstance with junior failing. Then it would go to best interests. Will dad win? No guarantees. But it is possible.


ETA: A GAL can help but just letting your son suffer natural consequences with a learning disability that has been diagnosed is not good. What help is the school giving? Have you PUSHED for an IEP? What are your son's learning disabilities?

 

[Gwenillian]

There is no IEP - I'm not actually sure what that is. As far as I know there is no law regarding IEP's in WI - I would think if it was a requirement they would have one for him. The school follows all the local & state laws that I am aware of. I will ask though.

I have offered to pull DS from the private school & place him into the public school several times over the past 3 years, but each time this was rejected by dad. He has stated that he will only agree to the children attending 'his' local public school in the future. As that is an hour plus away, it's rather impossible. The last time we were in court (2008) the commissioner stated the school they are currently in meets the definition given in the CO & had me keep them there. Dad has since refused to have anything to do with re-enrollment & thus tried to block it (they normally require his signature as acceptance, but have had to make due with the Commissioner's statement that it met the CO) without going back to court but also refused to allow me to move the kids to a public school (unless it's his). I've been kind of stuck in regards to this as I really can't afford to hire a lawyer again (per the CO I pay 100% of tuition & that's where all our money goes). And, I can't just move them without his permission.

The psychologist states that it is a latent learning disability that causes him to have trouble taking notes, but that it has nothing to do with him refusing to do the work & refusing to turn it in when he does do it. He states that DS needs a notetaker when notes are necessary (the school has agreed to provide this, but so far no notetaker has been necessary as there haven't been any lecture classes - just looking things up in a book/doing problems). The dr. states that DS is fully capable of the work he is being presented with (specifically, DS has the intellect of a 15 yr old); the teachers concur with this finding - when made to do the work, he can & does get all A's/B's if he turns it in. The psychologist states that the reason DS is failing is not due to the learning disability, but due to maturity issues and psychological issues that he hasn't been able to determine the cause of yet. Dr. feels that another rescue will further cement that DS will be rescued & that school isn't "his" responsibility into his mind.

I have followed what he stated to the letter for the past 9-10 months with frequent emails to him clarifying what I am supposed to do vs. not supposed to do. If DS refuses to do the work unless made to & when made to complete it, refuses to turn it in; what more can I do than to take him to the psychologist & follow what he tells me to do? What other options do I have? I'm open to suggestions - nothing else we've tried has worked (consequences, rewards, praise, nothing).

ETA: Not sure if it's relevant but at the time our CO was created he wanted private schooling as much as I did. However, he paid a significant amount of CS so I agreed (like a putz) to be 100% responsible for costs. In 2008 he was on the fence with public vs. private & now has apparently decided public is the way to go - but only if it's 'his' school. I don't know why his is 'better' than the one here - ours actually has good marks. The only reason I can come up with is that it would be impossible for them to attend there unless he has placement.

 

[Gwenillian]

Again, not sure if it matters or not but dad's suggestion when DS wouldn't turn in the work was to walk to DS's class in the morning & watch him turn it in. More recently SM states that if I would just ask, DS would do the work (I do ask - twice each day). I do enforce a study hour whether or not he does his homework or studies something else is up to him - this is allowed by the dr.

 

[Ohiogal]

There is no IEP - I'm not actually sure what that is. As far as I know there is no law regarding IEP's in WI - I would think if it was a requirement they would have one for him. The school follows all the local & state laws that I am aware of. I will ask though.

There is a law in WI regarding them -- see this page: Special Education Subjects Reference--IEPs

What is an IEP?
The IEP has the meaning given in 34 CFR 300.320.
300.320 Definitions related to IEPs. (a) Individualized education program. As used in this part, the term individualized education program or IEP means a written statement for each child with a disability that is developed, reviewed, and revised in a meeting in accordance with ss. 300.321-300.324.

An IEP is the law both in the state and FEDERALLY. Your ignorance is hurting your son. Private schools don't always do IEPs because they do NOT have to accept everyone.

I have offered to pull DS from the private school & place him into the public school several times over the past 3 years, but each time this was rejected by dad. He has stated that he will only agree to the children attending 'his' local public school in the future. As that is an hour plus away, it's rather impossible. The last time we were in court (2008) the commissioner stated the school they are currently in meets the definition given in the CO & had me keep them there.

And now things have changed. Why? Because your son has a diagnosed learning disability and the school has not taken steps regarding determining an IEP or anything of that nature.

Dad has since refused to have anything to do with re-enrollment & thus tried to block it (they normally require his signature as acceptance, but have had to make due with the Commissioner's statement that it met the CO) without going back to court but also refused to allow me to move the kids to a public school (unless it's his). I've been kind of stuck in regards to this as I really can't afford to hire a lawyer again (per the CO I pay 100% of tuition & that's where all our money goes). And, I can't just move them without his permission.

But you can be proactive for your son and file for a court order to have your child moved to an appropriate school.

The psychologist states that it is a latent learning disability that causes him to have trouble taking notes, but that it has nothing to do with him refusing to do the work & refusing to turn it in when he does do it. He states that DS needs a notetaker when notes are necessary (the school has agreed to provide this, but so far no notetaker has been necessary as there haven't been any lecture classes - just looking things up in a book/doing problems).

An IEP again would deal with all the above.

The dr. states that DS is fully capable of the work he is being presented with (specifically, DS has the intellect of a 15 yr old); the teachers concur with this finding - when made to do the work, he can & does get all A's/B's if he turns it in. The psychologist states that the reason DS is failing is not due to the learning disability, but due to maturity issues and psychological issues that he hasn't been able to determine the cause of yet. Dr. feels that another rescue will further cement that DS will be rescued & that school isn't "his" responsibility into his mind.

Great. HOWEVER, an IEP can help with all of the above.

I have followed what he stated to the letter for the past 9-10 months with frequent emails to him clarifying what I am supposed to do vs. not supposed to do. If DS refuses to do the work unless made to & when made to complete it, refuses to turn it in; what more can I do than to take him to the psychologist & follow what he tells me to do? What other options do I have? I'm open to suggestions - nothing else we've tried has worked (consequences, rewards, praise, nothing).

You need to be more proactive. You need to research different methods of dealing with this. You are the parent. What you can do is educate yourself regarding the law and regarding what opportunities exist to help your son.

ETA: Not sure if it's relevant but at the time our CO was created he wanted private schooling as much as I did. However, he paid a significant amount of CS so I agreed (like a putz) to be 100% responsible for costs. In 2008 he was on the fence with public vs. private & now has apparently decided public is the way to go - but only if it's 'his' school. I don't know why his is 'better' than the one here - ours actually has good marks. The only reason I can come up with is that it would be impossible for them to attend there unless he has placement.

You agreed to pay the costs. Public may be the way to go if the private school is not following the law regarding IEPs and what not. Request the school make an IEP for your son. Find out what they say to that request.

 

[I'mTheFather]

Does your son have ADD/ADHD? Was he diagnosed by a physician?

An IEP is an Individualized Education Plan. Your son is entitled to one if he was diagnosed with a learning disability. The private school is not required to provide services or to begin the IEP process, but the public school district is. However, they aren't required to do anything either until someone requests it. In my opinion, the psychologist hasn't been the advocate that he/she should be. You will have to contact the school district to get the ball rolling.

There are a lot of problems with how your son's problems are being handled, IMO. He clearly needs some extra support that he isn't getting. That support may have been provided by the public school district if you had requested it. Fortunately, it's not too late to do so.

 

[CurrentlyUndone]

I likely would look for a second opinion with a different psychologist.

 

[Gwenillian]

DS has a "latent learning disability" - no ADD or ADHD - as well as a low maturity level (dr. puts him at 7-8 & wants to bring this up to actual age of 11). Prior to the first appointment, dad stated a refusal to use prescription meds if a psychologist/other professional recommends them.

I will check into the IEP. I tried talking to our public school earlier (May, June & July), but they couldn't do the testing unless I promised I would put DS in that school district if they found they had to give him special ed. I can't promise w/o a CO or dad's ok & have neither so that went nowhere. We live in a very rural area - public school is ~ 15mi south, current school is ~ 25mi nw. That distance (~40 mi) was the school's reasoning. Couldn't get anywhere with court w/o testing & after testing dad absolutely refused to allow the move. Thinking back, I should have sought a CO, but at the time the dr. thought it would only take a quarter or maybe two & that DS would choose to begin completing the work. As an aside, I am allowed to help him if DS asks for help & actually I always offer - but he refuses.

I know I agreed to the costs. Things were different at that time than they are now - it's been 10 years since we divorced. Still, I'm fine with paying for it - it just hampers how much extra we have for things like attorney fees.

I realize I'm ignorant, about public school services. Neither child has ever attended & I never really needed to know until this year. Then, when I tried to get more info I didn't really get anywhere with them. But, I have been trying to find other ways of dealing with the situation - there isn't really info out there for a "latent learning disability" with no name. I have found several ads for special 'tutoring' but so far not much else.

 

[Ohiogal]

DS has a "latent learning disability" - no ADD or ADHD - as well as a low maturity level (dr. puts him at 7-8 & wants to bring this up to actual age of 11). Prior to the first appointment, dad stated a refusal to use prescription meds if a psychologist/other professional recommends them.

I will check into the IEP. I tried talking to our public school earlier (May, June & July), but they couldn't do the testing unless I promised I would put DS in that school district if they found they had to give him special ed. I can't promise w/o a CO or dad's ok & have neither so that went nowhere. We live in a very rural area - public school is ~ 15mi south, current school is ~ 25mi nw. That distance (~40 mi) was the school's reasoning. Couldn't get anywhere with court w/o testing & after testing dad absolutely refused to allow the move. Thinking back, I should have sought a CO, but at the time the dr. thought it would only take a quarter or maybe two & that DS would choose to begin completing the work. As an aside, I am allowed to help him if DS asks for help & actually I always offer - but he refuses.

I know I agreed to the costs. Things were different at that time than they are now - it's been 10 years since we divorced. Still, I'm fine with paying for it - it just hampers how much extra we have for things like attorney fees.

I realize I'm ignorant, about public school services. Neither child has ever attended & I never really needed to know until this year. Then, when I tried to get more info I didn't really get anywhere with them. But, I have been trying to find other ways of dealing with the situation - there isn't really info out there for a "latent learning disability" with no name. I have found several ads for special 'tutoring' but so far not much else.

YOU NEED to be proactive. If you are not being proactive, dad might be able to become primary because your son's needs are NOT being met. You chose to avoid a fight with dad rather than do what was best for your son -- not a good thing.
Please read this: Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) 1997/Services to Parentally Placed
Specifically:

•Consultation: local educational agencies (LEAs) are now required to consult with private school officials prior to conducting child find activities (see below for definition) in private schools;
•No individual entitlement to services: school districts must provide parentally placed private school students with disabilities residing within their district a genuine opportunity for equitable participation in their special education program.
•Services plan: Any parentally placed private school student with a disability whom an LEA elects to serve must have a services plan that, to the extent appropriate, meets the content requirements for Individual Education Programs (IEPs) and is developed, reviewed, and revised consistent with the IEP process requirements (Content of IEP: http://www.cec.sped.org/law_res/doc/law/regulations/ glossaryIndex.php).

Unless you begin educating yourself and helping your son -- more so than just letting him "deal with the natural consequences" -- you may find yourself losing custody if dad can show he will do more, can do more, and knows more about the issues.

 

[Gwenillian]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the local school can't refuse to help him. Excellent.

For the record, it's not about avoiding a fight with dad - the man fights with me non-stop whether I want to or not. It's about not knowing what to do. I really did try to get done what I thought was needed - but I clearly don't have all the information. I have asked multiple people, including the school, local school, psychologist, and gone on the web looking for info on DS's ld. I just haven't gotten very far apparently.

Thanks for your help. I'll call the school district again today.

 

[CurrentlyUndone]

Again - I would seek a second opinion. This psychologist sounds like a flake.

 

[mistoffolees]

Again - I would seek a second opinion. This psychologist sounds like a flake.

Or there may be some misunderstanding.

"Natural consequences" is a big buzzword, but what they fail to point out is that any action can have multiple consequences. For example, in this case, just ignoring the child and letting him fail can be a natural consequence. OTOH, not letting him play games or listen to music or see his friends until his homework is done and he passes his tests is also a natural consequence.

 

[Gwenillian]

Actually, according to psychologist, those are logical consequences & won't help. Not that it matters - we did that for three years & it didn't help; DS still wouldn't do homework w/o someone standing next to him (yes literally) watching him do it the entire time the entire way (from classroom writing down assignments to actually putting completed work in bag & taking to school). Then he wouldn't turn it in unless made to by the teacher.

 

[Gwenillian]

Called the school. They are out today (except receptionist) and will have principal/spec ed director call me tomorrow. Also, going in tomorrow to get whatever documentation is needed to switch since DS's current school (per principal and all three teachers as of our most recent meeting last week) thinks it's best to have him go there for 4th quarter if nothing changes before then unless dad/I disagree and request he remain there. This has already been approved by the psychologist.

Dad has only responded with a request for complete change of placement so I have asked again what he thinks of this, but do not really expect to receive a response. He did respond to their other ideas with a "no, don't do that" just nothing about this one. I'm now not sure at all what to think of this plan - I had been going on psychologist's recommendation/approval but if that is crap then....

I can try to get a second opinion myself - hopefully dad won't do his typical "no you can't take him" thing. If allowed, I will find another psychologist for him to see to find out other options.

 

[mommyof4]

Actually, according to psychologist, those are logical consequences & won't help. Not that it matters - we did that for three years & it didn't help; DS still wouldn't do homework w/o someone standing next to him (yes literally) watching him do it the entire time the entire way (from classroom writing down assignments to actually putting completed work in bag & taking to school). Then he wouldn't turn it in unless made to by the teacher.

Just another take on this issue from personal experience and I am NOT saying that your son does not have a learning disability...(but you really need a second opinion, imo)

I personally refused to do homework or, on the RARE occasions that I did, never turned it in. I was BORED and stubborn. My parents and teachers tried everything. Rewards, punishments, backing off, begging, everything. Nothing worked until they tested me to find out if there was an underlying issue. Know what they found? I was too academically advanced. Bumped my classes up in the areas that needed to be changed (some as much as 3 years). Amazingly, after that I was exited to do the work because it was interesting and challenging, as opposed to busy work.


I've done the exact same thing for my daughter, without all the drama and angst. When she started making up her own homework problems because she wasn't old enough to go to school, I had her tested. I can't imagine her boredom had she been stuck in a class learning her colors while she was ready for intro algebra (no exaggeration.)

Just something to consider.