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VC-21658A Unsafe lane change Irvine, CA 405N

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CdwJava

Senior Member
It is irrelevant which fund it goes to.... it all goes to the state!
But ... if they are SOOOO eager for all this money and believe that traffic citations are the way to do it, why have they not issued marching orders to that effect? "Write citations! Save the state!" This has not happened. Nor does the money go to a pot that includes much in the way of discretionary funding.

Jim, there is no nefarious plot to falsely accuse and cite drivers in the state in order to suck money out of them. If there is, they have done a heck of a job hiding it from those who are actually tasked with doing the job of issuing the citations.

In any event, none of this is relevant to the OP's issue. He has a decent chance at a dismissal so long as his account of events is not seriously refuted at trial.

- Carl
 


davew128

Senior Member
Are you guys blind, or have you not seen an increase in diligence for "enforcing traffic laws"?
Nope. I'm the last guy to be an apologist for traffic enforcement, but at least in San Diego County I'm not seeing it. Heck, a few weeks ago I drove to Santa Barbara and back and the only cruiser the entire trip I saw was for a couple of Santa Barbara Sheriffs and UCSB cops going into a pizza shop for dinner.
 

Jim_bo

Member
But ... if they are SOOOO eager for all this money and believe that traffic citations are the way to do it, why have they not issued marching orders to that effect? "Write citations! Save the state!" This has not happened. Nor does the money go to a pot that includes much in the way of discretionary funding.
Money does NOT have to go to any "discretionary funding" pot to benefit the State. The facts are simple:

1. California has some of the highest traffic infraction costs in the country. A stop sign ticket that costs over $400 here would cost less than $100 in many other states.

2. The money does not drift off into space or go to charity. The state uses it. What it uses it for is irrelevant... the state still gains benefit. If it goes to pay for cops and courts, then that means the state is not burdened to pay that amount from its general fund... which benefits the state!!

3. People are routinely convicted illegally in this State. There have been many examples on this site and others of where people were convicted WITHOUT the state meeting its statutory burden.

4. This state doesn't even provide prosecuting attorneys at trial, which is PURELY for economic purposes. Even though the burden of prosecution still lies with the prosecuting attorneys, we allow them not to show up because it is cheaper that way.

5. Defendants are routinely denied their rights to discovery by prosecuting attorneys. How many times have we seen here where the DA's office sends a letter to a defendant claiming that they have no responsibility towards discovery... even though the law (both case and statutory) is very clear that they do!!

6. Courts in this state simply ignore the law on a regular basis. The prosecution is never held to any standards (wait... what prosecution???) Defendant's rights are ignored and convictions are handed out with an obvious predetermination of guilt.


Jim, there is no nefarious plot to falsely accuse and cite drivers in the state in order to suck money out of them. If there is, they have done a heck of a job hiding it from those who are actually tasked with doing the job of issuing the citations.
I expect that from you as you have drank the kool-aide. The court system makes it nearly impossible for you to loose a case (if you show up... and many times even if you don't) but your performance is based on your ability to "produce". While there is no specific "quotas" being issued, traffic cops are expected to produce. And the state makes it easy for them to do it.

In any event, none of this is relevant to the OP's issue. He has a decent chance at a dismissal so long as his account of events is not seriously refuted at trial.

- Carl
I agree the OP has a good chance of beating this since it was ridiculous in the first place. However, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the OP come back and tell us he was found guilty. I know you like to try to make me out to be a "conspiracy theorists", but you have practically never admitted fault in the system. If I am to an extreme (in your opinion), you are equally to an extreme in the opposite direction.
 

Alex23

Member
I received a similar violation in CA, although it was in a 35 mph zone. I thought the other car was slowing down to let me in, as a courtesy.

People brake to let others change lanes. If they didn't it would be tough to change lanes.

But, do the jerks who cut me off ever get tickets for it? No.
 

Jim_bo

Member
My point is... You over exaggerate everything to try and prove a point for which you have failed to substantiate in any way other than to compare it to "monkeys flying out of your butt"!!!
I have substantiated many of my points to the level that any reasonable person can accept. However, the Kool-aid drinkers who believe the government is perfect and all defendants are guilty will never see that. For example, here is a thread on a different site that shows an aggregious abuse by police and the court which was only corrected by a formal complaint to the mayor threatening to expose the matter in the local paper.
Travesty of Justice in California Traffic Court
The interesting thing about that thread is that the Kool-aid drinkers were quite silent.

It is also interesting that you accuse me of exagerating to prove a point, and you substantiate your point by taking a tongue-in-cheek comment out of context and implying that is my only validating evidence. Maybe you can explain to the non-Kool-aid drinkers how you didn't just do exactly what you accused me of doing in the same sentence!?!?!
 

Jim_bo

Member
I received a similar violation in CA, although it was in a 35 mph zone. I thought the other car was slowing down to let me in, as a courtesy.

People brake to let others change lanes. If they didn't it would be tough to change lanes.

But, do the jerks who cut me off ever get tickets for it? No.
I understand your frustration. It is hard to feel like justice is ever done when law enforcement appears to be so arbitrary can capricious.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I hate Kool-Aid - I prefer coffee.

And, for the record, Jim, I never read the post over there until you linked it here. When I log on I read some, but not all, new posts in a few different threads. If I don't see it, I don't see it. I did note that you inquired about me in your second or third post - nice to know you were thinking of me.

For the record, what happened there was wrong. The judge (probably a 'pro tem') should be dismissed and the officer should be re-trained on radar and traffic issue. But if you are thinking you can get me to jump up and down pounding on a desk with my face beet red and my blood pressure through the roof, you aren't going to get that. I rarely get that excited about anything on a forum. If it were in my neck of the woods, yes, you might actually see that ... and if I could give you details of my latest windmill tilting against the powers that be where I live, you'd understand why I get enough blood pressure raising in real life, and why I have dropped about 15 lbs. in the past couple months.

All I can say is that I am glad I do not live in Kern County if they have more pro tems like that one. Though ... almost ... I was number 3 on the Kern County Sheriff's hiring list in 1990, but by the time they got their positions unfrozen, I was hired in Sacramento ... they missed me by 48 hours!

- Carl
 

Jim_bo

Member
I hate Kool-Aid - I prefer coffee.
I know... but "coffee drinkers" conjurs a different mental image!!

And, for the record, Jim, I never read the post over there until you linked it here. When I log on I read some, but not all, new posts in a few different threads. If I don't see it, I don't see it. I did note that you inquired about me in your second or third post - nice to know you were thinking of me.
It's difficult not to think of you when posting, Carl!!


For the record, what happened there was wrong. The judge (probably a 'pro tem') should be dismissed and the officer should be re-trained on radar and traffic issue. But if you are thinking you can get me to jump up and down pounding on a desk with my face beet red and my blood pressure through the roof, you aren't going to get that. I rarely get that excited about anything on a forum. If it were in my neck of the woods, yes, you might actually see that ... and if I could give you details of my latest windmill tilting against the powers that be where I live, you'd understand why I get enough blood pressure raising in real life, and why I have dropped about 15 lbs. in the past couple months.
This was no pro tem. It was a Superior Court Judge.


All I can say is that I am glad I do not live in Kern County if they have more pro tems like that one. Though ... almost ... I was number 3 on the Kern County Sheriff's hiring list in 1990, but by the time they got their positions unfrozen, I was hired in Sacramento ... they missed me by 48 hours!

- Carl
Much to our detriment, I'm sure. Had you taken a Kern County job, I'm sure I'd have bought you that cup of coffee by now.

The problem I see is that the scenario in the linked thread is not unique. It is commonplace. I have yet to order a traffic survey that justifies a prima facie speed limit, and yet people are convicted of speeding on a daily basis. I have seen people present legitimate speed trap defenses and the court just blows them off. Many people here think that I just rant and rave, but I have witnessed many people (including myself) have their rights to due process and a presumption of innocence stripped from them in traffic court. The state relies on the ignorance and the ambivilance (or the intimidation) of its citizens to bolster its coffers with illegal traffic convictions. Once we allow the state to trample our rights for a traffic ticket, then it moves to emminent domain, and then criminal court, etc... It is a slippery slope and, in my estimation, the public is largely to blame for allowing it to happen. That's why I advocate so strongly that ALL defendants defend themselves zealously. Some misguided fools think that is an attempt to shirk responsibility. However, I see caving in to an injustice as shirking responsibility as we have a duty to demand better from our government.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
I have substantiated many of my points to the level that any reasonable person can accept.
And yet you're still trying to substantiate.

For example, here is a thread on a different site that shows an aggregious abuse by police and the court which was only corrected by a formal complaint to the mayor threatening to expose the matter in the local paper.
Travesty of Justice in California Traffic Court
Yes Jim, I have read your thread... And in all honesty, and while I will not comment about the proceedings in that court, I think the bigger travesty in that story is that the citation was dismissed not based on the validity or lack thereof of the courts decision... not based upon an appeals court decision; it was dismissed because a third party opted to complain to the mayor who in turn used his “political powers” to get the citation dismissed.

That, to you... and just because it accomplished what you and your friend wanted, is “justice”!!!!! :rolleyes:

The interesting thing about that thread is that the Kool-aid drinkers were quite silent.
Well, I apologize on behalf of all the kool-aid drinkers, whoever they may be, for not putting together a victory parade for you and your friend!!!

It is also interesting that you accuse me of exagerating to prove a point, and you substantiate your point by taking a tongue-in-cheek comment out of context and implying that is my only validating evidence. Maybe you can explain to the non-Kool-aid drinkers how you didn't just do exactly what you accused me of doing in the same sentence!?!?!
Nice try, Jim... But you're not gonna turn this around on me and make it seem like I was wrong... Again, a stop sign violation is still $201... It is not “over $400” yet... maybe next year but not yet.
 

Jim_bo

Member
And yet you're still trying to substantiate.
As I said, I have substantiated to the satisfaction of any reasonable person. I guess that leaves you out.


Yes Jim, I have read your thread... And in all honesty, and while I will not comment about the proceedings in that court, I think the bigger travesty in that story is that the citation was dismissed not based on the validity or lack thereof of the courts decision... not based upon an appeals court decision; it was dismissed because a third party opted to complain to the mayor who in turn used his “political powers” to get the citation dismissed.
That, to you... and just because it accomplished what you and your friend wanted, is “justice”!!!!! :rolleyes:
Maybe you didn't read it all. Not only did the police request the matter be dismissed because of erroneous testimony, but they committed to stop speed enforcement on that highway and review their policies for the city. I guess you think status quo would have been better.


Well, I apologize on behalf of all the kool-aid drinkers, whoever they may be, for not putting together a victory parade for you and your friend!!!
I don't want a parade, I'm just wondering where you were with your claims that government is perfect and all defendants are guilty!


Nice try, Jim... But you're not gonna turn this around on me and make it seem like I was wrong... Again, a stop sign violation is still $201... It is not “over $400” yet... maybe next year but not yet.
I didn't turn anything around... you did. You seem to be your own worst enemy.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
As I said, I have substantiated to the satisfaction of any reasonable person. I guess that leaves you out.
Oh yeah... I forgot you were the icon for reasonableness!!!

Maybe you didn't read it all. Not only did the police request the matter be dismissed because of erroneous testimony
Again... The citation was dismissed due to someone being pressured by a police chief and a mayor who made a decision that "justice" (your twisted type of justice) would be best served if the story did not get printed in the local paper.

Show me the legal precedent that supports that process and I will concede. Until then, that dismissal was a bigger travesty than the one you had attempted to demonstrate when you started that thread.

I guess you think status quo would have been better.
If the status quo means going through the only legally proper channel (i.e. appeals process) to get the decision reversed or remanded... If the status quo means going through the same process that available to every defendant who walks that same courtroom, then you better believe I KNOW that would be better.

I'm just wondering where you were with your claims that government is perfect and all defendants are guilty!
When did I ever state anything remotely close to that??? Quote me!!!

We've drifted far enough here... Carry on if you feel like it.
 

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