NY Life not accepting consular report of death

[noir911]

What is the name of your state? Live in North Dakota, but staying with a friend in Indiana.

My husband died of liver failure in Chiang Mai, Thailand in August of this year. He had a life insurance policy with AARP New York Life and I am the sole beneficiary. New York Life is refusing to pay the claim because they say that that the Consular Report Of Death "CROD", which is an OFFICIAL document issued by the US embassy in Thailand, featuring an official US govt. seal on it, is only a "report of death", not proof. However, I found the law that seems to apply to this:22 U.S. Code 4196; 22 Code of Federal Regulations 72.1. This states that the CROD is filled out with information from the official Thai death certificate which the consular officer accepts as proof of death. There is another form that the consulate fills out if there is no official death certificate issued because there has been no body recovered, e.g. avalanche victims, plane wreck with no identifyable remains, etc. This specific form is called A PRESUMPTIVE REPORT OF DEATH because the consular officer does not have the hard evidence of a death certificate to use to fill out a CROD. I am now a pennyless widow without the resources to long-distance call different bureaus in Thailand in the hope that I can find someone who speaks English and who can tell me how to get a copy of the original Thai death certificate. The US Government bureau of vital statistics and Social Security accepted the CROD as good enough proof of my husband's demise, why can't New York Life? I really need some help in standing up against the insurance company. Anyone with any ideas on what I should do, PLEASE, leave a comment.What is the name of your state?

 

[Betty]

Some insurance companies (one I worked for) will accept from the US Consular at the US Embassy in a foreign country the Report of Death which they would have prepared based on the local death certificate. It is many times accepted in estate & ins. matters. Was your husband buried where he died & the body not returned to the US? Is NY Life saying they will only accept original death certificate? The US Embassy is there to help Americans- you might try calling them for help. You might also call the ins. co. & ask for the head (top person) of the claim dept. - tell them soc. sec. accepted Report of Death. Let's try the calls first - however, ins. companies have been sued by beneficiaries for death proceeds when insured died in a foreign country & ins. co. would not pay out proceeds w/o orig. death cert. The courts have found in favor of the bene in some of these cases because the judge felt the bene had enough evidence to prove the insured did die. (You have Report of Death + Soc. Sec. paying) Do you have any hospital records/bills? How much is the policy for? I'm sorry for the loss of your husband.

 

[noir911]

A little more information on my problem - I still need help!

Thank you Betty for replying. My husband's body was cremated in Thailand and his ashes were returned to the US for disposition. Yes, New York Life is saying that they will only accept a Thai death certificate as proof of his demise. I asked Senator Byron Dorgan, my home state senator for help and he had one of his people contact the US embassy in Thailand and he talked to John Spykerman, the consulate general there. This is what the consulate general told the Senator's assistant "This is the first instance I have heard where an insurance company will not accept the Certificate of Death Abroad for use in legal matters. Our report of death abroad (form OF-180) is only issued when the consulate has confirmed the death of an American citizen. The report contains information confirming the American citizenship of the deceased, his/her place and cause of death, and details on the NOK and disposition of remains. These details are gathered from evidence and host country official reports, and have always been used in the U.S. for all legal purposes. It is an official, legal document issued by the United States Government."

I have been working my way up the chain of command in the New York Life claims dept. I have not gotten to the top yet, but everyone there so far has told me they will accept nothing less than the Thai death certificate. The embassy will not help me get a Thai death certificate. Instead, the consulate general sent me a list of English speaking lawyers in Chiang Mai, Thailand and said that he could not personally recommend any of them and that they would be expensive. The life insurance policy is only for $10,000! It's not like I'm trying to collect on a million dollar policy or anything. No I don't have any hospital records or bills from Thailand to show to the insurance company. The senator's assistant has talked to NY Life and they told him straight out that they will only accept a Thai death certificate. The senator's assistant tells me he called the North Dakota Insurance Department and they told him they had never heard of a life insurance company refusing to accept the consular report of death as proof of death. The senator's assistant told me to call the ND Insurance Department and see if I can get them to help me, because there is nothing more he can do to help me. I am so broke I can't even afford the long distance call to North Dakota from here in Indiana. I can't believe I am being treated like this. I don't know what to do.

 

[Betty]

noir911 - It looks like you talked to NY Life + also the senator's assistant & no one is getting anywhere. It also looks like it would be expensive to get an English speaking lawyer in Thailand & the policy proceeds are only $10,000. I know you said you were broke (even to make a phone call) but the only suggestions I have is to call the ND Ins. Dept. for help or sue the ins. co. in small claims court. I wish I could help you more. Maybe someone else will come along with some add'l. suggestions. Good luck.

 

[Betty]

Hi - I just want to give you some contact info that might be of help to you -- you can call or write. If you write, to be sure they (the right person) gets your letter you can send it registered mail, return receipt requested (that's just an opt. - you don't have to). The main office of NY Life Ins. Co. is: New York Life Ins. Co., 51 Madison Ave., New York City, N.Y. 10010 (215-576-7000) attn: Sy Sternberg, Chairman & CEO. They have a general (for all offices) toll free customer service # 1-800-695-4331.; North Dakota Ins. Dep., State Capitol, 5th floor, 600 E. Boulevard Ave., Bismarck, ND 58505-0320. Attn: Jim Poolman, Ins. Commissioner Their toll free # is 1-800-247-0560.

 

[Dandy Don]

Please mention what city in Thailand your husband died in and his date of death (month and year). I am researching information on where to get death certificates in Thailand and hope to be able to report back to you on this sometime within the next 7 days.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[Betty]

Please mention what city in Thailand your husband died in and his date of death (month and year). I am researching information on where to get death certificates in Thailand and hope to be able to report back to you on this sometime within the next 7 days.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

She said in her original post Chiang Mai, Thailand in Aug. of this year. That would be great, Dandy Don, if you could find something out for her. The only place I knew was the US Embassy which she already tried & couldn't get an original death cert. (only Report of Death which is usually accepted)

 

[noir911]

Place and Date

Thanks Betty and Dandy Don.

Let me be more specific. My husband died in Chiang Mai, Thailand. August 5, 2006. I appreciate you looking in to this for me. Since this happened I have been so depressed and stressed out I haven't been able to think straight.

Sincerely,
Dianne

 

[Dandy Don]

According to the 2002 book, International Vital Statistics Handbook, you can order the death certificate by writing to the following address:

ADMINISTRATIVE & CIVIL REGISTRATION DIVISION
MINISTRY OF INTERIOR
NAKHON SAWAN ROAD
BANGKOK 10300 THAILAND

I was unable to find a phone number or fax number for them, but I would assume that your basic request would be to include all essential information about the decedent, such as his name, date of death, place of death, and computerized national ID card number. If I were you I would send my request by overnite mail or postal express mail and include a self-addressed stamped envelope for a quicker return response.

Best part of all is that the book says the cost is FREE (how they are able to charge nothing is far beyond me to understand)!! Best of luck to you in getting this situation resolved. If after you receive the certificate the insurance company still gives you grief (although I doubt that they will), you can do a GOOGLE search to look up the website for the North Dakota Insurance Commissioner and the address and phone or e-mail contact will be listed there.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[seniorjudge]

DEATH CERTIFICATE
To apply for a death certificate for a Thai citizen, the applicant may have a relationship to the deceased as household member such as son, daughter, parents, spouse, relatives, or others.

The following documents are required :
1. Thai Passport of the deceased and the deceased’s U.S. or Thai Identification Card.
2. U.S. Death Certificate issued by County’s Vital Statistics Office with its embossed seal official on it. It must be notarized by State and the U.S. Department of State in Washington, D.C.
3. Thai Passport of the applicant
4. Completed application forms
5. $15.00 fee for legalization of Death Certificate which is notarized by the U.S. Department of State.

For further information, please contact : Tel. 202-298-4810

Death Certificate is issued free of charge


http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/regisltn/regis.htm#Death

 

[Dandy Don]

At some point in the near future, please consider ordering more than one death certificate, since you may need some in the future if there are other assets that need to be claimed, they may be needed for probate court (if your husband left a will or if he didn't), pension benefits, etc.

 

[noir911]

Thank you for the information on the death certificate

My husband was a US citizen, not a Thai national. The consulate in Chiang Mai told me I would have to contact the provincial bureau of statistics in Chiang Mai to get a death certificate. However, they would not give me any information on an address, telephone, or fax number for the provincial office and instead sent me a list of a few English speaking attorneys who live in Chiang Mai. The consulate said they could not personally recommend any of the attorneys in any way other than that they speak English and they told me their cost would be comparable to any US attorney. I keep waiting to wake up from this nightmare, but it just aint happnin'

 

[seniorjudge]

My husband was a US citizen, not a Thai national. The consulate in Chiang Mai told me I would have to contact the provincial bureau of statistics in Chiang Mai to get a death certificate. However, they would not give me any information on an address, telephone, or fax number for the provincial office and instead sent me a list of a few English speaking attorneys who live in Chiang Mai. The consulate said they could not personally recommend any of the attorneys in any way other than that they speak English and they told me their cost would be comparable to any US attorney. I keep waiting to wake up from this nightmare, but it just aint happnin'

Check with a lawyer in the state where your husband was a resident.

There may be punitive damages for an insurance carrier to wrongfully withhold payment on a valid claim.

 

[Dandy Don]

You should also be contacting your state senator's office and/or governor's office to get their assistance in finding the exact address and phone number for the provincial bureau of statistics office in Chiang Mai.

 

[Dandy Don]

You should also be contacting your state senator's office and/or governor's office to get their assistance in finding the exact address and phone number for the provincial bureau of statistics office in Chiang Mai, even if they have to go through the Thai Embassy or elsewhere)--someone in Thailand has this information.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])