Possible harrassment with strick custody order?

[LdiJ]

Yep. Normally when people say they want an appeal, they want to base it on the fact that they do not like the order and there is NO LEGAL reason by which they can appeal. They just don't like it. You on the other hand have legal reasons to appeal based on everything you have revealed. You are getting a transcript of the hearing correct that you are going to file with your appeal? YOU NEED TO! You also need an attorney seriously.

Assuming that this is an appeal to the appelate courts rather than an appeal of a magistrate's ruling, to the judge. It probably is but that question was never asked.

However, if she takes our advice and gets an attorney, the attorney will handle all of that.

 

[blarg]

Assuming that this is an appeal to the appelate courts rather than an appeal of a magistrate's ruling, to the judge. It probably is but that question was never asked.

However, if she takes our advice and gets an attorney, the attorney will handle all of that.

It is an appeal to the appellate court in Raleigh NC.

 

[GrowUp!]

Assuming that this is an appeal to the appelate courts rather than an appeal of a magistrate's ruling, to the judge. It probably is but that question was never asked.
However, if she takes our advice and gets an attorney, the attorney will handle all of that.

It's been my understanding that even if one is appealing a Magistrate's ruling to a Judge, a transcript of the hearing is still required.
Also, having this done by someone who does transcripts of hearings would probably be cheaper than an attorney (or one of their staffers) do it.

 

[Ohiogal]

It's been my understanding that even if one is appealing a Magistrate's ruling to a Judge, a transcript of the hearing is still required.
Also, having this done by someone who does transcripts of hearings would probably be cheaper than an attorney (or one of their staffers) do it.

An attorney can not make an official transcript of a hearing. However I think LDij was referring to if OP hires an attorney then the attorney would take care of ordering the transcript and making sure everything is in proper order before filing the appeal. But you are correct -- even if appealing from the magistrate to the judge a transcript should be provided.

 

[blarg]

It's been my understanding that even if one is appealing a Magistrate's ruling to a Judge, a transcript of the hearing is still required.
Also, having this done by someone who does transcripts of hearings would probably be cheaper than an attorney (or one of their staffers) do it.

I went up to family court already to request the transcripts. Did that 2 weeks ago actually. They said I will need to pay someone to "translate" it. I am sure someone understands what that means.

 

[LdiJ]

I went up to family court already to request the transcripts. Did that 2 weeks ago actually. They said I will need to pay someone to "translate" it. I am sure someone understands what that means.

The word is transcribe, rather than translate.

 

[blarg]

The word is transcribe, rather than translate.

Yes that's the word! lol Any clue how much that is going to cost me? Or where I can find someone who does that?

 

[LdiJ]

Yes that's the word! lol Any clue how much that is going to cost me? Or where I can find someone who does that?

Normally someone at the courthouse does that, and normally its a per page charge, so it depends on the length of the hearing.

 

[CJane]

Yes that's the word! lol Any clue how much that is going to cost me? Or where I can find someone who does that?

It cost my ex-husband in the area of $1500 for an 8 hour trial... it'll cost me $35 for a 20 minute TRO hearing.

 

[blarg]

It cost my ex-husband in the area of $1500 for an 8 hour trial... it'll cost me $35 for a 20 minute TRO hearing.

Well the trial was less than an hour so I shouldn't have to spend that much. *phew* TY

 

[blarg]

Exact wording on order...a lil long...

Someone asked me what the wording was on the order and I have enough time right now to type it out. I apologize for the length of this. I hope someone can give me a little bit of advice (if they are able to get through the whole thing lol) Thanks again for all the help. The items in italics are my words...

Conclusions of Law:​

1. That the parties are properly before the court and the court has jurisdiction of the subject matter of this action.
2. That the Plaintiff (me) and Defendant (him) are both fit and proper persons to have the care and control of the minor child. (is this joint legal or physical??)
3. That it is in the best interest of the minor child that both parties utilize the Children's Bill of Rights.

BASED UPON THE FOREGOING FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF THE LAW, IT IS HEREBY ORDER, ADJUDGED AND DECREED AS FOLLOWS:

1. JOINT CUSTODY: The Plaintiff and Defendant shall have joint custody of the minor child with the minor child with the Defendant - Father from Monday at the recess from school around 3:00 p.m. (which makes no sense as she is in after school care) until the following Monday morning when the father shall deliver the minor child to school on time to begin the school day. On alternate weeks thereafter pending further Orders of this Court. The Plaintiff-Mother shall have the minor child for the same period in alternate weeks. The parties shall alternate in this fashion pending further Orders of this Court. The alternate week schedule shall begin Monday, May 7, 2007 when the defendant - father shall pick up the minor child from school. (first off she isn't in school yet, and this first week, my ex didn't even pick her up, he emailed me and said he would start his weeks on the 21st)

2. HOLIDAYS: (my words as this section doesn't really matter and makes sense to me)All holidays divided equally and each parent gets their respective day.

3. EXCHANGE LOCATION: When school is not in session, the parties shall exchange the minor child at the A******* Police Department at 8:00a.m. on Monday mornings. (my location is **'d. I also am wondering is this the downtown station as there are 5 police stations in my town.)

4. SCHOOL TO BE ATTENDED:The minor child shall attend the proper school located in the school district of the Plaintiff - Mother so long as the Plaintiff lives in the city school district. Should one of the parties move from the city school district, the moving party shall notice this matter back into the courts 90 days prior or such a relocation for proper disposition of this issue or related issues impacted by such relocation. (now this makes no sense as I told the judge in the hearing that I was moving out of the city limits bc of lower taxes - the city is VERY expensive and for the simple fact that the schools are better in the county. So how exactly am I supposed to give this 90 day notice to the court when the courts already knew? I had to let an apartment go bc I couldn't do the 90 day notice.

5. RULES GOVERNING THE MINOR CHILD:

a. CHILDREN'S BILL OF RIGHTS (basically says follow them)

b. PERSON'S OF THE OPPOSITE SEX: Neither the Plaintiff nor the Defendant shall be in the presence of a person of the opposite sex or same sex to whom they are unrelated by blood or marriage in the presence of the minor child overnight. For the purpose of this order, the term "overnight" shall mean any time after 10:00p.m.. Specifically, the minor child shall not be in the presence of a person of the opposite sex or same sex to whom they are unrelated by blood or marriage after 10:00p.m.. (This is the one that REALLLLLY pisses me off. There is no way that I can have a normal family life as I am gay and in NC they do not recognize gay marriage. The judge is basically saying the only way I can have a family is if I am straight. I'm sorry, but that is not going to happen. *gotta love living in Billy Graham country....* I called the family clerks office and asked them if this means no more sleepovers and they said only if they are at my residence, she can no longer spend the night at her friend's houses.)

c.NO SMOKING: (no problem with this one as I don't smoke and neither does her father)

d. ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES and/or CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES: This basically says absolutely no drugs and alcohol consumed around the child. Not a problem for me, however that is with the father. I think that is why the judge put it in. A question I have about this is the fact that I am on controlled substances but they are from my doctor. These shouldn't be an issue right?

e. COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE PARTIES: The Plaintiff and Defendant shall communicate with each other through the use of a composition notebook passed between them, sealed in the child's backpack or by Internet e-mail retaining all transmissions by hard copy. The communication shall be specific in detail and shall include all information available to the possessory parent concerning health, education or welfare of the minor child included but not limited to, prescriptions, doctor's appointments, teacher's conferences, discipline issues, etc. This notebook is subject to inspection by the Court at any time and shall be brought to Court upon any future hearings in this matter.(Now this is where it gets tricky. I put a notebook in her backpack, and upon her return there was only drawings by my daughter. Nothing else. I had sent him and email stating when she takes her meds, how her docs have said no sugar and limited amounts of juice, basic things he needed to know. When my daughter returned I asked her if she took her meds, she said no. So I asked her how she ate over there and she said "daddy gave me cake and ice cream, etc." The no sugar/limited juice was an order from her doctor's as mass amounts of both make her have bowel issues. The email enclosing all this information is the one I was referring to with the "I won't do any of that until you do what I want" that I was talking about before. Hope that makes sense.)

f. ACTIVE ROLE IN MATTERS PERTAINING TO THE MINOR CHILD: Each parent is to be active in school work, activities, and health appointments of the minor child. (I had spoken with him and asked him if I could mak her doctor's appointments during my weeks as my daughter and I have the same doctor. Is that allowed? he didn't say anything about it, I just want to make sure this won't burn me.)

g. PARENTING CLASSES: Each parent shall attend and complete a parenting class within 45 day of entry of this order. (i have already taken classes. Does this mean I have to do them over again??)

h. PARENT TELEPHONE CALLS: The non-possessory parent may telephone the minor child once per day prior to the bedtime of the child. Each party shall keep the other parent advised of any an all changes of address and telephone numbers. Each parent shall assist and encourage the minor child to telephone the other parent at any time prior to bedtime. Neither party shall interfere with the minor child contacting the other parent if they wish to do so. (The whole web cam part was approved when I contacted family court. Now, I had tried to call many times and was hung up on every time as I stated before. He wrote me stating he tried my cell phone multiple times, but I have no record of calls from him or any other unknown number HOWEVER my friend's phone has been ringing from an unknown number on average about 20x a day. She picks up the phone and hears noises in the background. When she received these calls during my exes week, we heard my daughter in the background so we are positive it was him - she had him on speaker phone. The times she has received them since, she heard dogs barking the the background and he owns 2 dogs. Since he blocks the number there is no way to prove it on our end, but he has offered to send me his phone records, will that be enough?)

i. BEDTIME: The minor child shall be in bed, lights out, no later that 8:30 p.m. on school nights and no later than 10:00 p.m. on non-school nights. (This is not a joke, this is typed word for word from the order...)

j. NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLAINTIFF AND DEFENDANT: Due to the lack of working relationship between the parties, the parties shall not communicate, visit, discuss or have any communication with each other about any other subject except the health, education and welfare of this minor child. Such conversations shall be in written format as set forth herein except as to matters of an emergency medical situation of the minor child.(This is where I question something. He refuses to tell me where she goes/who watches her while he is at work. My daughter however told me where this "sitter" lives. We happened to drive by where she lived. Now, do I have the right to know where she is staying and have this "sitter" have my contact information in case he is unreachable? I told him that I would like to know where she is in case something happens and he will not budge. This doesn't make me feel safe at all. Maybe I am over-reacting, but I don't think so.)

6. CONTEMPT OF COURT: Each party acknowledges the significance of strict adherence to the terms and conditions of the order. Failure of the parties to abide by the terms of this order shall subject that party to contempt of court. (Unless you are appealing...then the judge won't even look at the contempt order.

7. TAXES: Father claims on odd years, Mother claims on even years. (This makes no sense to me as he has tried to claim her for the past 2 years!!! The IRS probably won't even let him claim her.)

 

[GrowUp!]

1. JOINT CUSTODY: The Plaintiff and Defendant shall have joint custody of the minor child with the minor child with the Defendant - Father from Monday at the recess from school around 3:00 p.m. (which makes no sense as she is in after school care) until the following Monday morning when the father shall deliver the minor child to school on time to begin the school day.

It makes alot of sense. You're not getting the bigger picture here. This order will continue until it is modified again. So while the child is in after-school care NOW, they won't be as they get older. Think long-term.

On alternate weeks thereafter pending further Orders of this Court. The Plaintiff-Mother shall have the minor child for the same period in alternate weeks. The parties shall alternate in this fashion pending further Orders of this Court. The alternate week schedule shall begin Monday, May 7, 2007 when the defendant - father shall pick up the minor child from school. (first off she isn't in school yet, and this first week, my ex didn't even pick her up, he emailed me and said he would start his weeks on the 21st)

Again this bigger picture...and if your ex wishes to start on the 21st, that is their choice. Just make sure you keep record of this, just in case.

3. EXCHANGE LOCATION: When school is not in session, the parties shall exchange the minor child at the A******* Police Department at 8:00a.m. on Monday mornings. (my location is **'d. I also am wondering is this the downtown station as there are 5 police stations in my town.)

Then clarify this with an address.

4. SCHOOL TO BE ATTENDED:The minor child shall attend the proper school located in the school district of the Plaintiff - Mother so long as the Plaintiff lives in the city school district. Should one of the parties move from the city school district, the moving party shall notice this matter back into the courts 90 days prior or such a relocation for proper disposition of this issue or related issues impacted by such relocation. (now this makes no sense as I told the judge in the hearing that I was moving out of the city limits bc of lower taxes - the city is VERY expensive and for the simple fact that the schools are better in the county. So how exactly am I supposed to give this 90 day notice to the court when the courts already knew? I had to let an apartment go bc I couldn't do the 90 day notice.

Yes it does make sense. You have to follow the language in the order. Or perhaps the judge did not find your "reason" as a valid one. Just because you told the Judge does not mean he has to put it in the order. The other parent has a say now. So, you either follow the order or move and then face the consequences.

b. PERSON'S OF THE OPPOSITE SEX: Neither the Plaintiff nor the Defendant shall be in the presence of a person of the opposite sex or same sex to whom they are unrelated by blood or marriage in the presence of the minor child overnight. For the purpose of this order, the term "overnight" shall mean any time after 10:00p.m.. Specifically, the minor child shall not be in the presence of a person of the opposite sex or same sex to whom they are unrelated by blood or marriage after 10:00p.m.. (This is the one that REALLLLLY pisses me off. There is no way that I can have a normal family life as I am gay and in NC they do not recognize gay marriage. The judge is basically saying the only way I can have a family is if I am straight. I'm sorry, but that is not going to happen. *gotta love living in Billy Graham country....* I called the family clerks office and asked them if this means no more sleepovers and they said only if they are at my residence, she can no longer spend the night at her friend's houses.)

Object to this BIG TIME!!!! If the Judge made this comment -- and it's on the record -- the transcript will show this. The Judge is a moron for making this comment and it's a huge constitutional issue, IMHO. You might need to consult an attorney on this to specify your objection. In fact, I would also ask the Judge to remove himself because of this comment as it shows blatant bias and file a grievance against him with the state Supreme Court.

d. ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES and/or CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES: This basically says absolutely no drugs and alcohol consumed around the child. Not a problem for me, however that is with the father. I think that is why the judge put it in. A question I have about this is the fact that I am on controlled substances but they are from my doctor. These shouldn't be an issue right?

No, that's not what it means. Either parent can consume alcohol around the child. One can not ABUSE either alcohol or cs's around the child.

e. COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE PARTIES: The Plaintiff and Defendant shall communicate with each other through the use of a composition notebook passed between them, sealed in the child's backpack or by Internet e-mail retaining all transmissions by hard copy. The communication shall be specific in detail and shall include all information available to the possessory parent concerning health, education or welfare of the minor child included but not limited to, prescriptions, doctor's appointments, teacher's conferences, discipline issues, etc. This notebook is subject to inspection by the Court at any time and shall be brought to Court upon any future hearings in this matter.(Now this is where it gets tricky. I put a notebook in her backpack, and upon her return there was only drawings by my daughter. Nothing else. I had sent him and email stating when she takes her meds, how her docs have said no sugar and limited amounts of juice, basic things he needed to know. When my daughter returned I asked her if she took her meds, she said no. So I asked her how she ate over there and she said "daddy gave me cake and ice cream, etc." The no sugar/limited juice was an order from her doctor's as mass amounts of both make her have bowel issues. The email enclosing all this information is the one I was referring to with the "I won't do any of that until you do what I want" that I was talking about before. Hope that makes sense.)

This communication log can be used in a contempt hearing or any other hearing. If the other parent has to give the child medication during their parenting time, simply ask that the parent note the date/time med was given to child. Also, attach a copy of the doctor's order to one of the pages of the comm log so it's in there for reference.

f. ACTIVE ROLE IN MATTERS PERTAINING TO THE MINOR CHILD: Each parent is to be active in school work, activities, and health appointments of the minor child. (I had spoken with him and asked him if I could mak her doctor's appointments during my weeks as my daughter and I have the same doctor. Is that allowed? he didn't say anything about it, I just want to make sure this won't burn me.)

You can not schedule appointments that infringe on the other parent's time. Unless it is an emergency -- and courts have clearly defined what constitute an emergency.

g. PARENTING CLASSES: Each parent shall attend and complete a parenting class within 45 day of entry of this order. (i have already taken classes. Does this mean I have to do them over again??)

Just keep your certificate handy.

 

[GrowUp!]

h. PARENT TELEPHONE CALLS: The non-possessory parent may telephone the minor child once per day prior to the bedtime of the child. Each party shall keep the other parent advised of any an all changes of address and telephone numbers. Each parent shall assist and encourage the minor child to telephone the other parent at any time prior to bedtime. Neither party shall interfere with the minor child contacting the other parent if they wish to do so. (The whole web cam part was approved when I contacted family court. Now, I had tried to call many times and was hung up on every time as I stated before. He wrote me stating he tried my cell phone multiple times, but I have no record of calls from him or any other unknown number HOWEVER my friend's phone has been ringing from an unknown number on average about 20x a day. She picks up the phone and hears noises in the background. When she received these calls during my exes week, we heard my daughter in the background so we are positive it was him - she had him on speaker phone. The times she has received them since, she heard dogs barking the the background and he owns 2 dogs. Since he blocks the number there is no way to prove it on our end, but he has offered to send me his phone records, will that be enough?)

Very detailed information will have to be kept on this (i.e. date/time/what transpired). If need be for any hearing (i.e. contempt), then you will need to subpoena their phone records. If your friend's phone is a landline, then they can put a block on restricted calls (i.e. privacy manager) or have the calls traced by the phone company. Hang up calls, in many states, are considered "harassment" and can be prosecuted criminally. Especially if it's as many as you claim.

i. BEDTIME: The minor child shall be in bed, lights out, no later that 8:30 p.m. on school nights and no later than 10:00 p.m. on non-school nights. (This is not a joke, this is typed word for word from the order...)

"Lights out"? That's a little overbearing of the court. And quite frankly, the court has no jurisdiction to state this exactly. IMO, it's infringing on both parent's parental rights. I would object to that because, as the child gets older, their bedtime would be later. Unless you two agreed to this.

j. NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLAINTIFF AND DEFENDANT: Due to the lack of working relationship between the parties, the parties shall not communicate, visit, discuss or have any communication with each other about any other subject except the health, education and welfare of this minor child. Such conversations shall be in written format as set forth herein except as to matters of an emergency medical situation of the minor child.(This is where I question something. He refuses to tell me where she goes/who watches her while he is at work. My daughter however told me where this "sitter" lives. We happened to drive by where she lived. Now, do I have the right to know where she is staying and have this "sitter" have my contact information in case he is unreachable? I told him that I would like to know where she is in case something happens and he will not budge. This doesn't make me feel safe at all. Maybe I am over-reacting, but I don't think so.)

He does not have to tell you what he's doing with the child during HIS TIME!!! You are over-reacting. And I'd be careful about "driving by" because that could be used against you.

6. CONTEMPT OF COURT: Each party acknowledges the significance of strict adherence to the terms and conditions of the order. Failure of the parties to abide by the terms of this order shall subject that party to contempt of court. (Unless you are appealing...then the judge won't even look at the contempt order.

Huh? The Judge is BOUND BY LAW to look at show cause for contempt orders. If not, then I would have the judge removed from the case and a grievance filed with the state's SUpreme Court Disciplinary Counsel.

7. TAXES: Father claims on odd years, Mother claims on even years. (This makes no sense to me as he has tried to claim her for the past 2 years!!! The IRS probably won't even let him claim her.)

It does make sense. The IRS has no jurisdiction over this, per se. The court has ordered each parent to alternate years. If either parent claims the child on the taxes for years they are not supposed to, that is contempt -- plus the IRS will flag it as well if both parents claim them.

 

[blarg]

Response to GrowUp! Part 1

This is in response to Grow Up!

Thank you for your clarification on some of the items. I am glad that it was not just me that thought the sections on who can be around the child, bedtime and the contempt were not just me being over sensitive.

Then clarify this with an address.

I wrote him and he refuses to go to any station other than the one walking distance from his house, which happens to be a 30 minute drive for me. I think on this one I should contact family court again.

Yes it does make sense. You have to follow the language in the order. Or perhaps the judge did not find your "reason" as a valid one. Just because you told the Judge does not mean he has to put it in the order. The other parent has a say now. So, you either follow the order or move and then face the consequences.

How would I go about changing this? Is it possible for me to move but keep the child in the same school?

Object to this BIG TIME!!!! If the Judge made this comment -- and it's on the record -- the transcript will show this. The Judge is a moron for making this comment and it's a huge constitutional issue, IMHO. You might need to consult an attorney on this to specify your objection. In fact, I would also ask the Judge to remove himself because of this comment as it shows blatant bias and file a grievance against him with the state Supreme Court.

How would I get him removed? I have been trying to figure that one out for weeks!! Do I just send an email or written comment to the Supreme Court or do I have to go there in person? I ask because the State Supreme Court is almost 3 hours away.

No, that's not what it means. Either parent can consume alcohol around the child. One can not ABUSE either alcohol or cs's around the child

On this one I am going to put the exact wording of the order.

"Neither the Plaintiff or Defendant shall use, consume or allow a third person to use or consume alcoholic beverages or controlled substances in the presence of the minor child."

This is why I asked. This judge imo was really (pardon my wording) anal.

This communication log can be used in a contempt hearing or any other hearing. If the other parent has to give the child medication during their parenting time, simply ask that the parent note the date/time med was given to child. Also, attach a copy of the doctor's order to one of the pages of the comm log so it's in there for reference.

Ok this I can do. So keep the notebook in her bag even though all it is being used for at his house is a drawing tablet for the kiddo?

 

[blarg]

Part 2

Very detailed information will have to be kept on this (i.e. date/time/what transpired). If need be for any hearing (i.e. contempt), then you will need to subpoena their phone records. If your friend's phone is a landline, then they can put a block on restricted calls (i.e. privacy manager) or have the calls traced by the phone company. Hang up calls, in many states, are considered "harassment" and can be prosecuted criminally. Especially if it's as many as you claim.

I have been writing down every time i have tried to call her while at his house. My friend's phone is a cell phone but she can print off her call log online, and has gladly offered to do so. She is getting very irritated by all the calls. He has told me he can give me the records more than once, but I will still need to subpoena them huh? I know when it comes to hanging up on me that can be used in a contempt hearing, but, when it comes to her calling him that she can handle through the magistrates? I really want him to leave her alone. It averages 20 calls a day, starting as early as 7am and as late as 11pm.

"Lights out"? That's a little overbearing of the court. And quite frankly, the court has no jurisdiction to state this exactly. IMO, it's infringing on both parent's parental rights. I would object to that because, as the child gets older, their bedtime would be later. Unless you two agreed to this

I thought it was overbearing as well. I did not agree to this at all. In fact, I was a bit offended by this comment. I thought it was common knowledge that a 5 year old can't stay up at all hours of the night.

He does not have to tell you what he's doing with the child during HIS TIME!!! You are over-reacting. And I'd be careful about "driving by" because that could be used against you.

It isn't that I care what he does during his time. It is the fact that if there is an emergency, and he can't be reached, what will happen? I would think any type of child care/daycare would be under the welfare of the child. The driving by thing wasn't like I drove right up into her driveway or anything. I was going down the main road and my daughter said "my sitter when I'm with daddy lives up there" (and she pointed). I have already been told via email that he won't tell me anything so how will I know if something happens to my daughter? This is my concern. Also, since he has not done anything in the ways of insurance, her medical insurance is under my name. He was supposed to switch her onto his insurance last year per child support order. Hope this makes sense.

Huh? The Judge is BOUND BY LAW to look at show cause for contempt orders. If not, then I would have the judge removed from the case and a grievance filed with the state's SUpreme Court Disciplinary Counsel.

Again, how do I do this? He put a big "X" through my request and had it returned to me. The clerk of family court told me he looked at the name and put the"X" then said to her, "I'm not even going to read this". It is quite frustrating.

It does make sense. The IRS has no jurisdiction over this, per se. The court has ordered each parent to alternate years. If either parent claims the child on the taxes for years they are not supposed to, that is contempt -- plus the IRS will flag it as well if both parents claim them.

The reason I said that is that he has attempted to claim her for the past 2 years. This past year he got away with it as I did not have to file taxes as I was unable to work at all. The first year he had to pay them back. If I can prove that he claimed her for the past 2 years is that something I should bring to the contempt hearing (if I can ever get it...the hearing that is).

I thank you again for your response and help GrowUp!.