No court order in regards to custody or residence

[jbowman]

Quite honestly, if you want to stick to your arguments that Mom's home is unstable due to the fact that she dates, et al... some could (and would) state that YOUR home is unstable due to the fact that you are shacking up with your boyfriend without benefit of marriage. See how that works?
.

And THIS is an EXCELLENT point. Actually Mommyof4's whole post was right on!

 

[BlissfulMommy]

Quite honestly, if you want to stick to your arguments that Mom's home is unstable due to the fact that she dates, et al... some could (and would) state that YOUR home is unstable due to the fact that you are shacking up with your boyfriend without benefit of marriage. See how that works?

Just because we are not married YET (he just got his final judgment last week and mine is only days away too) doesn't make our home more unstable than the home of a woman who changes her boyfriends like others change their underwear. Plus, we don't "shack up", we are in a very serious and loving relationship and we have been living together for about 21 months. You think it's healthy for a 13 year old boy and 11 year old girl to see half-naked men coming out of their Mom's bedroom on a regular basis? And always different ones? Talking about shacking up in that home! C'mon !! Get real.

 

[Ohiogal]

Just because we are not married YET (he just got his final judgment last week and mine is only days away too) doesn't make our home more unstable than the home of a woman who changes her boyfriends like others change their underwear. Plus, we don't "shack up", we are in a very serious and loving relationship and we have been living together for about 21 months. You think it's healthy for a 13 year old boy and 11 year old girl to see half-naked men coming out of their Mom's bedroom on a regular basis? And always different ones? Talking about shacking up in that home! C'mon !! Get real.

You ARE shacking up> YOU were also committing adultery in the eyes of the law. You dont like it but that is too bad. One is not worse than the other. Neither mom nor dad were saints but guess what -- neither are either one of them demons. ANd since the divorce is ONLY just final you are not going to get any changes made.

 

[jbowman]

Hmmm what is the lesser of two evils? Shacking up when still married to other people... or dating different people? And Im glad youre in love and all but really--courts dont care.

How do you know these kids are witnessing half naked men coming out of the bedroom? Is that what they just happened to blurt out to you? Or maybe you were questioning them? But you couldnt have gotten any info from the 11 year old right? Because that child is not your boyfriends. So how would you know that?

And maybe half naked means--no shirt. LOL. Like I said Kids say the darndest things.

You have been told already that there has to be a CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCE for custody to change. Nothing you have stated has shown a change of circumstance. Sorry.

 

[BlissfulMommy]

So basically what you are saying is unless my boyfriend and I are getting married - to provide a more "stable" holy-matrimony home - we pretty much can't do anything, right?

My boyfriend was never married to his son's Mom, Ohiogal - I think that is what you were assuming

I have been browsing the internet about emotional child abuse and found this article: http://www.helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm#emotional

Examples of Emotional Child Abuse

Intimidation
Yelling, screaming, threatening, frightening, or bullying.

Belitting or shaming
Humiliating the child, name-calling, making negative comparisons to others. Telling the child he or she is “no good," "worthless," "bad," or "a mistake."

Lack of affection and warmth
Showing little to no physical affection (such as hugs) or words of affection (praise, saying “I love you.”)

Habitual blaming
Telling the child that everything is his or her fault.

Ignoring or rejecting
Withdrawing attention, giving “the cold shoulder,” disregarding

Child exploitation
Taking advantage of a child, including child labor.

Emotional Neglect
Failure to provide emotional support, love, and affection. This includes neglect of the child’s emotional needs and failure to provide psychological care, as needed.

The points in bold are what the child's mother is doing.

My boyfriend already called the lawyer in Ohio but he was not in the office this morning, he left an urgent message with his secretary and is waiting for the lawyer to call him back.

 

[Ohiogal]

So basically what you are saying is unless my boyfriend and I are getting married - to provide a more "stable" holy-matrimony home - we pretty much can't do anything, right?

Okay here is the confusion -- you want your boyfriend to prove she is unstable when he just got a divorce from another woman and during said divorce he was living with yet a third woman (namely you?). That will not show stability and hence the stability argument will go out the window. Nor will you getting married show stability because dad has apparently had a relationship with mom of son, the woman he just divorced and you (and to jump in to marriage with you a scant few weeks after the divorce is finalized after shacking up with you) won't show stability. It will show instability quite frankly in the eyes of a GAL.

My boyfriend was never married to his son's Mom, Ohiogal - I think that is what you were assuming

Okay -- i was assuming (bad of me I know) that he was talking about the woman he just got a divorce from.

I have been browsing the internet about emotional child abuse and found this article: http://www.helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm#emotional

Which doesn't mean much in the way of the LAW!

Examples of Emotional Child Abuse

Intimidation
Yelling, screaming, threatening, frightening, or bullying.

Belitting or shaming
Humiliating the child, name-calling, making negative comparisons to others. Telling the child he or she is “no good," "worthless," "bad," or "a mistake."

Lack of affection and warmth
Showing little to no physical affection (such as hugs) or words of affection (praise, saying “I love you.”)

Habitual blaming
Telling the child that everything is his or her fault.

Ignoring or rejecting
Withdrawing attention, giving “the cold shoulder,” disregarding

Child exploitation
Taking advantage of a child, including child labor.

The points in bold are what the child's mother is doing.

My boyfriend already called the lawyer in Ohio but he was not in the office this morning, he left an urgent message with his secretary and is waiting for the lawyer to call him back.

How is he going to prove all that? How is she taking advantage of a child? How is she habitually blaming? How is she ignoring and rejecting, giving the cold shoulder? How do her actions rise to the level NECESSARY for an Ohio court to change custody. What you believe fits in to the definitions may not meet the legal definitions.

 

[BlissfulMommy]

How is he going to prove all that? How is she taking advantage of a child? How is she habitually blaming? How is she ignoring and rejecting, giving the cold shoulder? How do her actions rise to the level NECESSARY for an Ohio court to change custody. What you believe fits in to the definitions may not meet the legal definitions.

Her 13 year old son does all the housework and chores, she does NOTHING - isn't that taking advantage of him? I understand that kids, especially teenagers, have to do chores - my 16 year old daughter has chores too - but leaving the cleaning of a whole house to a 13 year old is a little bit much. She is ignoring his wishes, she is putting him on a constant guilt-trip that everything is his fault and she is constantly mean to him (beyond being a "normal" parent who is strict which we wouldn't have a problem with) - habitural blaming. She is hanging up the phone on her son and rejects his calls when he tries to call her back while in tears, she never tells her son that she loves him and never hugs him - that is rejecting him and showing him the cold shoulder, is it not? I don't know what the necessary level for an Ohio court to change custody is but we are going to take our chances because we respect this 13 year old and love him very much and we want the best for this child.

 

[Ohiogal]

Her 13 year old son does all the housework and chores, she does NOTHING - isn't that taking advantage of him?

Nope. That is a style of parenting.

I understand that kids, especially teenagers, have to do chores - my 16 year old daughter has chores too - but leaving the cleaning of a whole house to a 13 year old is a little bit much.

Your opinion. But not a legal opinion.

She is ignoring his wishes,

Parents do NOT have to abide by their children's wishes. In fact in many cases parents SHOULD NOT abide by their children's wishes. Instead of being a friend they need to be a parent and actually lead, order, scold, discipline, teach and various other things. Granting his wishes is not among them.

she is putting him on a constant guilt-trip that everything is his fault and she is constantly mean to him (beyond being a "normal" parent who is strict which we wouldn't have a problem with) - habitural blaming.

Like what? What is his fault? How do you know this? What is your proof?

She is hanging up the phone on her son and rejects his calls when he tries to call her back while in tears, she never tells her son that she loves him and never hugs him - that is rejecting him and showing him the cold shoulder, is it not?

Nope. That is not rejecting him. And how do you know she NEVER tells her son she loves him and NEVER loves him. YOu are not present 100% of the time. You are not around that often and teenagers are prone to exaggerate.

I don't know what the necessary level for an Ohio court to change custody is but we are going to take our chances because we respect this 13 year old and love him very much and we want the best for this child.

WE are not in this battle. WE are not a party to this custody. WE need to see ourselves out. What you have mentioned is nothing more than parenting differences. Your boyfriend can pursue this in court HOWEVER be forewarned it will be expensive. There will be a GAL appointed. There will be cross motions. It could take a year or more and your boyfriend quite frankly can lose big time.

 

[BlissfulMommy]

She won't give up without a long, dirty court battle, my boyfriend knows it, I know it and I see what you are saying, Ohiogal. As much as it sucks and as much as I care, maybe my boyfriend doesn't have enough to change custody, at least not yet and now. It really really sucks Plus, my boyfriend and I really don't want to put his son through a stressful and long court battle. My boyfriend was hoping that he could talk some sense into his son's Mom but that didn't go anywhere.

My boyfriend just called, he talked to the family lawyer in Ohio for about an hour about the situation. Up to 4 years ago a child at the age of 13 actually could choose where he or she wanted to live and it was automatically granted. Nowadays, their wishes are just being put into consideration by the court but it's not automatic anymore - like it was before. The lawyer needs a retainer of $5,000 upfront which is a huge amount of money, he said it could very well add up to $10,000 for the whole thing. He said that we *could* keep my boyfriend's son here without kidnapping him - but the right thing to do is to send him home tomorrow as planned so it won't look bad on us when it comes to the court hearings. So he is going to fly home tomorrow evening as planned. My boyfriend's parents have put away a "fund" a long time ago for custody things such as this one and we'll have to talk to them about what the lawyer said.

 

[mommyof4]

Her 13 year old son does all the housework and chores, she does NOTHING - isn't that taking advantage of him? I understand that kids, especially teenagers, have to do chores - my 16 year old daughter has chores too - but leaving the cleaning of a whole house to a 13 year old is a little bit much.

So do my two oldest kids (with the exception of fixing dinner and mine and my husband's laundy/bedroom.) It's called teaching responsibility and teaching them that they contribute to the care and mantainance of the family home. Some parents are willing to do everything themselves. I am not. Neither is necessarily right or wrong. It's just different styles. In one more year, I have already told my oldest that she can count on babysitting quite often. She has mentioned she wants a car. I have responded that she will have to earn it.

She is ignoring his wishes, she is putting him on a constant guilt-trip that everything is his fault and she is constantly mean to him (beyond being a "normal" parent who is strict which we wouldn't have a problem with) - habitural blaming. She is hanging up the phone on her son and rejects his calls when he tries to call her back while in tears, she never tells her son that she loves him and never hugs him - that is rejecting him and showing him the cold shoulder, is it not? I don't know what the necessary level for an Ohio court to change custody is but we are going to take our chances because we respect this 13 year old and love him very much and we want the best for this child.

I don't grant my children's wishes all the time, either. So?

Not telling someone they love him can be attributed to her discomfort with demonstrative actiions. How often does he tell his mother he loves her? How often does he give her a hug? How often does he tell her thank you for the necessities she provides? (I'll give you a hint...my kids tell my husband and I thank you quite often, just as I tell them thank you for helping around the house.)


If you want the best for the child, your boyfriend will do everything in his power to help his son adjust and live the best life he can where he is. NONE of what you have listed is going to get a court to agree with your boyfriend' wishes.

Oh, and expecting a child to babysit and do chores when he is perfectly capable of doing so is in no way CLOSE to child exploitation/child labor. You're really reaching, there.

 

[BlissfulMommy]

Not telling someone they love him can be attributed to her discomfort with demonstrative actiions. How often does he tell his mother he loves her? How often does he give her a hug? How often does he tell her thank you for the necessities she provides? (I'll give you a hint...my kids tell my husband and I thank you quite often, just as I tell them thank you for helping around the house.)

The parents should be the ones telling their kids that they love them FIRST. Every time he is on the phone with her he tells her that he loves her, she just hangs up and he is in tears after the calls, after EVERY call. In my opinion not telling your children that you love them is cruel, mean and emotionally abusive. If you as a parent show positive behavior, the kids will respond and react with positive behavior such as respect, thanking the parents for providing for them and being there for them. If positive behavior is not being taught by the parents, the kids turn out to be bitter, negative and troublemaking individuals. It's really sad but a fact.

My boyfriend and I tell my two kids (16 and 11) and his two kids (16 and 13) ALL the time that we love them and we are more than generous with hugs and kisses. Kids NEED that. And, we are also strict and show the kids boundaries. The 13 year old's Mom has been on a search to find Mr. Right during her kids' whole lives and has her priorities completely WRONG. For her, the kids don't come first, it's MEN.

 

[mommyof4]

Your opinion is worthless at this point. That's all it is...the girlfriend's opinion. I know that sounds harsh and dismissive, but you don't seem to grasp that fact.

The 13 year old's Mom has been on a search to find Mr. Right during her kids' whole lives and has her priorities completely WRONG. For her, the kids don't come first, it's MEN

I suggest you just get over this. First, it's not illegal or necessarily wrong. Second, your BF's track record isn't exactly stellar.

 

[Accountable]

The parents should be the ones telling their kids that they love them FIRST. Every time he is on the phone with her he tells her that he loves her, she just hangs up and he is in tears after the calls, after EVERY call. In my opinion not telling your children that you love them is cruel, mean and emotionally abusive. If you as a parent show positive behavior, the kids will respond and react with positive behavior such as respect, thanking the parents for providing for them and being there for them. If positive behavior is not being taught by the parents, the kids turn out to be bitter, negative and troublemaking individuals. It's really sad but a fact.

My boyfriend and I tell my two kids (16 and 11) and his two kids (16 and 13) ALL the time that we love them and we are more than generous with hugs and kisses. Kids NEED that. And, we are also strict and show the kids boundaries. The 13 year old's Mom has been on a search to find Mr. Right during her kids' whole lives and has her priorities completely WRONG. For her, the kids don't come first, it's MEN.

I'm pushing 50 and to this day my mom never displays affection or love toward me nor either of my siblings. Many people are not comfortable being demonstrative with their emotions. However, we have no doubt in our minds that she does, in fact, love us. It's not an ideal way of parenting, but I certainly don't feel mentally harmed by it.

If you do not live in Ohio, and have only been shacking up with Dad for 21 mos, how are you so intimately aware of the daily goings on at Mom's house? Surely you are not basing all of your allegations on what a 13 yr old has told you. I'm sure he's already figured out that you are a soft touch and anxious to believe any dirt he might spill on Mom.

By the way, you said Dad has "no custody orders"....do you mean that he doesn't even have court ordered visitation?

 

[Silverplum]

Your opinion is worthless at this point. That's all it is...the girlfriend's opinion. I know that sounds harsh and dismissive, but you don't seem to grasp that fact.

I agree.

Plus, this thread has gone on long enough. Legal points have been made.

 

[BlissfulMommy]

The 13 year old's Mom has been on a search to find Mr. Right during her kids' whole lives and has her priorities completely WRONG. For her, the kids don't come first, it's MEN

I suggest you just get over this. First, it's not illegal or necessarily wrong. Second, your BF's track record isn't exactly stellar.

You don't think that children should come FIRST, period?? Come on.... And in regards to my boyfriends' track record - everyone makes mistakes and his mistake was to get involved with this woman and then after that, his now ex-wife (two complete nut cases). He made bad choices in the past when it came to women - he's the type of guy who let women take advantage of him in a bad way, no reason to judge him. The bottom line is that he has finally found his soulmate - ME

Have you always made the right choices in life? I don't think anyone has and nobody has an immaculate track record as you call it.