Best way to present my case?

[Suzz]

What is the name of your state? NC

I posted relating to my daughter's visitation situation with her father about a month ago
(https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=367288) This is related but different, so please forgive me if I should have posted this question in that thread.

We go for visitation review next week and I'd like some advice on the best way to present my case as an effective advocate for my daughter without angering the judge. I spoke with the attorney who was to be handling the TPR/Adoption for me, but I can't afford his fee to represent me so I'm going Pro-se. Here are how things stand:

*In 1994 I was given sole physical and legal custody with supervised visitation at my discretion due to the judge deeiming NCP emotionally unstable because of his testimony.

1. Visitation was ordered in Feb. '07 after no contact since 1995. NCP was to make arrangements with minor to meet for dinner on the 1st and 3rd Friday of each month for dinner at her choice of restaurants. Cell phone numbers were exchanged so that the time and place of dinner could be arranged by NCP in advance.

2. Out of a possible 9 visits, 4 have happened.
A. She has cancelled once due to a sinus infection with a fever.
B. He cancelled once due to being sent to the hospital.
C. Once when he called her and told her he'd be evicted from his home if he took her out to dinner.
D. On 2 occasions he did not call to see her until the night they were supposed to have dinner after she had already eaten and made other arrangements for her evening. One of those times he left a message on my phone saying he had forgotten about her.
The other time I answered the phone and he said he had not noticed what day it was. When she called him back a bit later (she wasn't there when he called) he got angry with her, saying that when he doesn't call her it is her responsibility to call him to see if he plans on seeing her, and that she had no right to make other plans even though she had not heard from him.

3. He has only spoken with her about 10 times in the time between Feb and today.

4. He expressed an interest in terminating his rights and having my husband adopt her, and she agreed, but now he is making excuses about not believing that I'll file the papers if he signs them.

5. The night she and I met with him to give him the TPR papers he told her that his children are going without because she had to have braces (in front of the notary).

6. Just after visitation was ordered minor began having nightmares, outbursts of crying and temper, her grades took a nosedive, and she began ripping off her fingernails and toenails. I was advised to take her to a therapist and have done so. The therapist will not (and can not) go into details with me, but has said that she will be happy writing a letter to the judge giving her professional opinion.

7. Minors outbursts seem to be mostly limited to time frames between the Thursday night when her father calls and the day after her dinner with him. Not to say she doesn't have a temper otherwise, most 15 yr old girls do, but it seems to get worse during those times.

8. Minor maintains to me, her father, the judge, and anyone else who asks, that she wishes no contact with her father at this time.

9. She has never been denied access to him by me or anyone in my family, she has always known who he is through pictures, and until visitations were ordered, she would go out of her way to avoid him if she saw him in public anywhere. Since the visits, she doesn't want to speak with him when he calls and will not call him until threatened with punishment.

10. Other than these recent dinners, he is a stranger to her.

I know that whether visitation continues or not is not her choice (even though I think it should be at her age). What I'd like to try and convey is that I think that communication should be left open, but that she should be allowed to choose whether or not to contact him. If we had just split I think I'd feel differently, but he has never been in her life by his own choice, now he walks back in and expects the father of the year award.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can present all of this at the review without seeming petty to a judge I don't have a great track record with?

I know many of you may not agree with my opinion that she should be given some say so
(and it just is my opinion) but please don't flame me. I am truly trying to act in the best interest of my daughter.

Thank you.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? NC

I posted relating to my daughter's visitation situation with her father about a month ago
(https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=367288) This is related but different, so please forgive me if I should have posted this question in that thread.

We go for visitation review next week and I'd like some advice on the best way to present my case as an effective advocate for my daughter without angering the judge. I spoke with the attorney who was to be handling the TPR/Adoption for me, but I can't afford his fee to represent me so I'm going Pro-se. Here are how things stand:

*In 1994 I was given sole physical and legal custody with supervised visitation at my discretion due to the judge deeiming NCP emotionally unstable because of his testimony.

1. Visitation was ordered in Feb. '07 after no contact since 1995. NCP was to make arrangements with minor to meet for dinner on the 1st and 3rd Friday of each month for dinner at her choice of restaurants. Cell phone numbers were exchanged so that the time and place of dinner could be arranged by NCP in advance.

2. Out of a possible 9 visits, 4 have happened.
A. She has cancelled once due to a sinus infection with a fever.
B. He cancelled once due to being sent to the hospital.
C. Once when he called her and told her he'd be evicted from his home if he took her out to dinner.
D. On 2 occasions he did not call to see her until the night they were supposed to have dinner after she had already eaten and made other arrangements for her evening. One of those times he left a message on my phone saying he had forgotten about her.
The other time I answered the phone and he said he had not noticed what day it was. When she called him back a bit later (she wasn't there when he called) he got angry with her, saying that when he doesn't call her it is her responsibility to call him to see if he plans on seeing her, and that she had no right to make other plans even though she had not heard from him.

3. He has only spoken with her about 10 times in the time between Feb and today.

4. He expressed an interest in terminating his rights and having my husband adopt her, and she agreed, but now he is making excuses about not believing that I'll file the papers if he signs them.

5. The night she and I met with him to give him the TPR papers he told her that his children are going without because she had to have braces (in front of the notary).

6. Just after visitation was ordered minor began having nightmares, outbursts of crying and temper, her grades took a nosedive, and she began ripping off her fingernails and toenails. I was advised to take her to a therapist and have done so. The therapist will not (and can not) go into details with me, but has said that she will be happy writing a letter to the judge giving her professional opinion.

7. Minors outbursts seem to be mostly limited to time frames between the Thursday night when her father calls and the day after her dinner with him. Not to say she doesn't have a temper otherwise, most 15 yr old girls do, but it seems to get worse during those times.

8. Minor maintains to me, her father, the judge, and anyone else who asks, that she wishes no contact with her father at this time.

9. She has never been denied access to him by me or anyone in my family, she has always known who he is through pictures, and until visitations were ordered, she would go out of her way to avoid him if she saw him in public anywhere. Since the visits, she doesn't want to speak with him when he calls and will not call him until threatened with punishment.

10. Other than these recent dinners, he is a stranger to her.

I know that whether visitation continues or not is not her choice (even though I think it should be at her age). What I'd like to try and convey is that I think that communication should be left open, but that she should be allowed to choose whether or not to contact him. If we had just split I think I'd feel differently, but he has never been in her life by his own choice, now he walks back in and expects the father of the year award.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can present all of this at the review without seeming petty to a judge I don't have a great track record with?

I know many of you may not agree with my opinion that she should be given some say so
(and it just is my opinion) but please don't flame me. I am truly trying to act in the best interest of my daughter.

Thank you.

Has he signed the TPR paperwork, are you getting going on the adoption? If so, that is going to eventually resolve the issue.

 

[moburkes]

What is the name of your state? NC

I posted relating to my daughter's visitation situation with her father about a month ago
(https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=367288) This is related but different, so please forgive me if I should have posted this question in that thread.

We go for visitation review next week and I'd like some advice on the best way to present my case as an effective advocate for my daughter without angering the judge. I spoke with the attorney who was to be handling the TPR/Adoption for me, but I can't afford his fee to represent me so I'm going Pro-se. Here are how things stand:

*In 1994 I was given sole physical and legal custody with supervised visitation at my discretion due to the judge deeiming NCP emotionally unstable because of his testimony.

1. Visitation was ordered in Feb. '07 after no contact since 1995. NCP was to make arrangements with minor to meet for dinner on the 1st and 3rd Friday of each month for dinner at her choice of restaurants. Cell phone numbers were exchanged so that the time and place of dinner could be arranged by NCP in advance.

2. Out of a possible 9 visits, 4 have happened.
A. She has cancelled once due to a sinus infection with a fever. It happens
B. He cancelled once due to being sent to the hospital. It happens
C. Once when he called her and told her he'd be evicted from his home if he took her out to dinner. By the LL or his girlfriend/wife?
D. On 2 occasions he did not call to see her until the night they were supposed to have dinner after she had already eaten and made other arrangements for her evening. One of those times he left a message on my phone saying he had forgotten about her.
The other time I answered the phone and he said he had not noticed what day it was. When she called him back a bit later (she wasn't there when he called) he got angry with her, saying that when he doesn't call her it is her responsibility to call him to see if he plans on seeing her, and that she had no right to make other plans even though she had not heard from him. He is correct. Regardless of when he confirms, no plans should be made for "his" days with his daughter.

3. He has only spoken with her about 10 times in the time between Feb and today. It happens.

4. He expressed an interest in terminating his rights and having my husband adopt her, and she agreed, but now he is making excuses about not believing that I'll file the papers if he signs them.

5. The night she and I met with him to give him the TPR papers he told her that his children are going without because she had to have braces (in front of the notary). Who cares what the notary heard. She's heard worse.

6. Just after visitation was ordered minor began having nightmares, outbursts of crying and temper, her grades took a nosedive, and she began ripping off her fingernails and toenails. I was advised to take her to a therapist and have done so. The therapist will not (and can not) go into details with me, but has said that she will be happy writing a letter to the judge giving her professional opinion. Good.

7. Minors outbursts seem to be mostly limited to time frames between the Thursday night when her father calls and the day after her dinner with him. Not to say she doesn't have a temper otherwise, most 15 yr old girls do, but it seems to get worse during those times. This is pretty normal.

8. Minor maintains to me, her father, the judge, and anyone else who asks, that she wishes no contact with her father at this time. Not sure if your state takes that into consideration. In the mean time follow all court orders. Teach her to be more responsible than her father.

9. She has never been denied access to him by me or anyone in my family, she has always known who he is through pictures, and until visitations were ordered, she would go out of her way to avoid him if she saw him in public anywhere. Why? Do you okay that? Since the visits, she doesn't want to speak with him when he calls and will not call him until threatened with punishment. So, you HAVE punished her, right?

10. Other than these recent dinners, he is a stranger to her.

I know that whether visitation continues or not is not her choice (even though I think it should be at her age). What else should she be able to decide to do? Drive? Go out without your permission? What I'd like to try and convey is that I think that communication should be left open, but that she should be allowed to choose whether or not to contact him. That probably won't happen. Is dad paying child support?If we had just split I think I'd feel differently, but he has never been in her life by his own choice, now he walks back in and expects the father of the year award.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can present all of this at the review without seeming petty to a judge I don't have a great track record with?

I know many of you may not agree with my opinion that she should be given some say so
(and it just is my opinion) but please don't flame me. I am truly trying to act in the best interest of my daughter.

Thank you.

No, not father of the year. Maybe time to do the right thing by his child. It happens.

 

[Suzz]

Has he signed the TPR paperwork, are you getting going on the adoption? If so, that is going to eventually resolve the issue.

No he hasn't because he says he doesn't believe I'll file the papers once he signs them. We even offered to meet him at the Clerk's Office so he could sign and be there when we file, but he just says I'm trying to screw him out of money.

 

[Suzz]

By the LL or his girlfriend/wife?

He never did say ... when I asked him about it he said that he has bills and a family to support and she can't expect the world to revolve around her.

He is correct. Regardless of when he confirms, no plans should be made for "his" days with his daughter.

7PM on Friday night doesn't strike me as advance notice when he's always said that she had to meet him by 6:45 because he has to be in bed by 9.

Who cares what the notary heard. She's heard worse.

Actually, she was horrified. She said she wants to be called as a witness, because she said it might help if the judge hears from someone other than me how he acts toward my daughter.

Not sure if your state takes that into consideration. In the mean time follow all court orders. Teach her to be more responsible than her father.

Another attorney I got a consult with said that most judges in this area do take a minor's wishes into account especially at her age, but that the one I've pulled doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to her rulings.

Why? Do you okay that?

Why did she avoid him? She always said that she didn't want to see him. Do I okay what? Not forcing my daughter on a man who didn't even know who she was when he saw her, until 2 years when he saw her picture in the local paper?

So, you HAVE punished her, right?

The 2 times that it was a real issue, she finally gave in, but on the 2nd occasion it took 3 days of no phone, computer, or Mp3 before she finally did.

What else should she be able to decide to do? Drive? Go out without your permission?

She has never done either, and has never given me reason to doubt her about anything. But yes, I do allow her to choose her electives in school, to choose her own clothes, to choose her friends, to choose who she calls and when, and to choose her summer travel ... because I have faith in her as the self sufficient, level headed young woman I am raising her to be. She knows her guidelines and her boundaries and until he walked back in our lives I never had any problems with her resisting me or rebelling against anything I said.

No, not father of the year. Maybe time to do the right thing by his child. It happens.

I don't think "doing the right thing" includes putting your child down and telling her its her fault that your other children don't have what they need.

I also worry that him pushing things at this point, and waffling back and forth between wanting visitation and wanting to TPR, not only will confuse her, but may end up handicapping or destroying any future relationship he might have been able to develop with her, because he seems to be stirring up a lot of resentment in her.

 

[LdiJ]

I don't think "doing the right thing" includes putting your child down and telling her its her fault that your other children don't have what they need.

I also worry that him pushing things at this point, and waffling back and forth between wanting visitation and wanting to TPR, not only will confuse her, but may end up handicapping or destroying any future relationship he might have been able to develop with her, because he seems to be stirring up a lot of resentment in her.

Isn't your child 15?

You really do have to follow the orders. However, if dad calls at 7PM on Friday to arrange to have dinner with your child on that Friday, and she has already eaten, I don't think that you are going to get too dinged by a judge....and no, its absolutely NOT your child's responsibility to call dad and remind him.

I am not at all surprized that he is stirring up resentment in her. He really is behaving like a jerk, and she is certainly old enough to recognize that herself, without any input from you at all.

Again, however, until or unless a judge tells you otherwise, you have to follow the orders. At least its only dinner and only twice a month.

 

[Suzz]

Isn't your child 15? Yes she is

You really do have to follow the orders. However, if dad calls at 7PM on Friday to arrange to have dinner with your child on that Friday, and she has already eaten, I don't think that you are going to get too dinged by a judge....and no, its absolutely NOT your child's responsibility to call dad and remind him.

Thats what I tried to get through to him, that this is "his party" not hers. He was the one who pushed for this so it is HIS responsibility to make it happen, not hers.

I am not at all surprized that he is stirring up resentment in her. He really is behaving like a jerk, and she is certainly old enough to recognize that herself, without any input from you at all.

Again, however, until or unless a judge tells you otherwise, you have to follow the orders. At least its only dinner and only twice a month.

I have encouraged her to show more responsibility and maturity than IMO he is ( I didn't put the "than he is" part in it to her, just told her this is when she has to prove to everyone how I've raised her to be responsible and how mature she is). When this all first happened she was determined to, in her words, make him sorry he ever pushed for visits, by showing her butt at dinners. I told her then that 1. It wasn't acceptable behavoir from my daughter, as she well knew. 2. It would not help her case with the judge any to show her matuity level if she did so and he reported it back to the court.

Will bringing up him requesting TPR help my case at all?

 

[Suzz]

?

What is the best way to convey all this information to the judge without seeming as if I'm being petty? Will bringing up the TPR help me or could it hinder my case?

I love court but not when I'm the one at the table especially in front of this judge. I nearly forget my name sometimes I get so nervous so I'm trying to prepare as much as possible so hopefully I'll make a better impression.

 

[Suzz]

UGH! Dropped from calendar ... still waiting

I just checked with the clerk's office about my case. Apparently, it was not put on the final court calendar so I had to refile and now have to be back for call on the 15th. Why can't this all just be over???? It is like being on death row, finding evidence to appeal just before execution, then having the appeal hearing postponed. This also means that she is going to have to hold Fri night open for Ichabod again. Thats going to go over about as well as telling her she has been transferred to an all girls convent school in the Alps.

Sorry ... venting

 

[Suzz]

Woo Hoo!!!!

HE SIGNED!!HE SIGNED!! ICHABOD SIGNED THE TPR!!! HAPPY DANCE HAPPY DANCE!!




Sorry for that, but it had to be said. I now return you to your regularly shceduled postings.

 

[CJane]

Waitaminute!

His name is Ichabod????? Really?

 

[Suzz]

Lol

Waitaminute!

His name is Ichabod????? Really?

No ma'am, not really ... that was the private (not in hearing range of daughter) nickname that my husband gave him the first time he ever saw him. Hubby says that ex reminds him of the cartooon version of Ichabod Crane.

 

[LdiJ]

HE SIGNED!!HE SIGNED!! ICHABOD SIGNED THE TPR!!! HAPPY DANCE HAPPY DANCE!!




Sorry for that, but it had to be said. I now return you to your regularly shceduled postings.

Congrats! Now get that adoption going ASAP!

 

[Suzz]

Congrats! Now get that adoption going ASAP!

Thank you
We already have the adoption papers signed, was told today they cannot be filed until next Friday, which is when his 7 day period to revoke the TPR ends ... but I'll be waiting when they open

 

[Suzz]

Just to wrap things up ....

THE ADOPTION IS FINAL!!!! WHOOO HOOO!!! YIPPEE!!!