I bought a car on Ebay - the seller threatens me to summon to court for slender

[Karinthy]

What is the name of your state? IL

Hey there,

I have bought a car on Ebay. It arrived, I have seen the 'Check Engine' on, but the shipper told be it may be just a small problem. After I registered it (and paid tax), I took it for full inspection to a mechanic. Turned out, it has been involved in a heavy accident, which is not revealed by Carfax and its front has been rebuilt and repainted. The car is not a lemon, but this certainly devaluates it. There are also other issues, including a dying air conditioner and the 'Check engine' on, which comes from bad oxygen filters.

The seller wrote in the listing that the car is inspected and answered my email question 'has it been in an accident' with 'no' and 'no issues'.

I asked him for a partial refund. He refused but offered a full refund (the car going back). I said, this way I would lose my tax and reg fees and my effort. He said its my problem. After exchanging many emails, we got stuck. I even asked him to just pay the repair of the two most pressing issues (adds up to approx $1400). He refused.

So I left him a negative feedback. Now he threatens me with going to court over slander.
He also sent me some really rude emails with lots of swear words.

I think my negative feedback is objectively true: I only wrote that it has been in accident, that if he refunds, I lose money and: avoid.

Does he have a case against me?

What is the right way to get proof that the car has been in accident? Is the inspection form enough?

Please advise,

Karinthy

 

[quincy]

Negative feedback on eBay is not enough to support a libel suit against someone, usually.

If you have proof that the car was in an accident, then you were telling the truth in your feedback. However, he may not have been aware the car was in an accident, if he purchased it used himself, so it is possible he answered your questions believing they were honest answers. Especially if no accident shows up on Carfax.

You do not have much of a case against him since he offered to take the car back for a full refund.

Rude emails with swear words are not nice, but also not illegal.

 

[Karinthy]

I do not really want a case against him. Lots of effort for not much to gain. For me, the case has (sadly) ended with the neg feedback - I will pay the repairs myself. Thats kissing goodbye to $1500 if I only want the minimum and another $1000 if I want to resolve all issues.

I am more curious whether he can win a case against me. He wrote that he sells the car 'Inspected'. My mechanic tells me that any other mechanic would recognize the repaint immediately. This means that he is liable, no matter if he did it intentionally (which is kind of hard to prove). Is this a legal argument?

Also, how do I obtain a PROOF that the car has been in accident? I think Carfax only tells you whether insurance has ever been claimed on it, right?

 

[quincy]

I doubt if this eBay seller will sue you over negative feedback. It costs thousands to bring a defamation action, and he would have to prove a loss of business or harm to his reputation due to your feedback after proving that what you said was false. These are not easy proofs.

You have the written inspection showing that you based your feedback on the report from your mechanic, so you based your feedback on a reliable source. If your feedback was all opinion, too, that, along with truth, are defenses to any libel action.

This guy would be absolutely stupid to sue you. Unfortunately, stupid people do sue, so there is no guarantee that he won't. But I can almost guarantee, with what you have posted here, that he wouldn't win such a suit. If you are feeling uneasy about the whole thing, however, take the feedback you provided, the nasty email messages he sent you and the mechanics report to an attorney for review. The attorney can give you a clearer picture of any risks you face.

Also, you can run the VIN to see if the car has been in any accidents, however if the car was in an accident, not reported, and then repaired without claims being filed, it may be difficult to prove absolutely. Your mechanic's written report should be adequate (and a second opinion could help, as well).

Buying from an unknown eBay seller can be a risk, as I am sure you are now all too well aware.

 

[Karinthy]

Thanks for the answers, Quincy, they give me some relief for sure

Well, I think there is really just one more aspect: he claims that I was trying to extort him. Whatever that means.

What I did was that at some point, I gave him a 24 hours deadline. Actually, I waited for 32 or so before giving him a negative feedback. In those 32 hours we exchanged, say, 30 messages. By the end it was clear that we will not agree on this issue. I decided to end it and not waste more time.

He also constantly urged me to contact him on the phone, but I asked him to keep all records flowing through Ebay My Messages. I was reluctant because I thought that he wants to offer me something off records that does not match Ebay policy (otherwise, he could have just sent it through Ebay). And in that case, I am not under Ebay protection anymore I guess. So, all my messages went through Ebay.

Does this change anything?

Ahh yes, and he says that he will bring it to court just to force me down to his state - otherwise I will loose automatically (I am guessing but not sure that he meant a small claims court). He also figured that I am using my university account for ebay and threathened me to report this to my university. Sigh.. he wrote me that as he is a taxpayer, I am spending his tax by using a university account for private business. I think he does not know what a private university is (mine is private). Still, I worry that he starts to mess around with me. Is there a way to stop this kind of thing (and not making it worse)? I will change my cellphone number (just bought it, no problem).

All I did was to express my opinion, frankly as I should.

 

[quincy]

This is certainly becoming more than a simple libel question here.

You were wise to keep everything posted on the eBay message site. The eBay seller's messages sound like they are becoming more threatening. Do not take phone calls from him or communicate with him in any way other than through My Messages, so you have a printed record of all correspondence. This guy does not appear to be your ordinary eBay seller - he sounds a wee bit crazy.

What I suggest you do is contact an Illinois lawyer and see about getting a cease and desist letter drafted and sent to this guy. You might want to check with the attorney about whether he/she thinks the seller can assert that the courts in his state would have personal jurisdiction over you, a resident of Illinois. The courts may not have authority to litigate a claim against you at all.

You may also want to contact eBay and report the seller. Let them access your My Messages, if necessary, to show how his behavior is becoming harassing. It is ridiculous when it stems from a single negative feedback.

If you are a student, I know money is always an object. Is there a law school nearby where you can seek assistance, or a free legal clinic? I really think you need to have an attorney in your area look over all of what you have from this eBay guy, including your car, to give you advice and direct you on the actions he/she thinks best for you to take.

 

[CraigFL]

First, I am not sure why you left him negative feedback. It seems that if he offered you a refund, that he was acting in good faith to keep you happy. I realize that even with the refund you would be losing some money but I find it difficult to make someone responsible for costs like that for what seems to be an honest mistake. If you would have had the car inspected BEFORE you bought it, you would have known these things and only been out a $200 inspection fee. Some sellers with limited transactions take negative quite seriously because it does affect their credibility. I'm unclear why you didn't express your concerns -- that YOU lost some money and the car was in an accident with "Neutral" or even "positive" feedback. The part about "avoid" I don't understand at all--everthing was in your control and you chose not to take the responsibility, he offers full refund and he's a bad guy? I would be mad too...

 

[quincy]

You can be mad, perhaps, about a negative feedback. But not psychotic. For heaven's sake, this is a negative feedback and she expressed her honest opinion. Why does everyone think suing someone is the answer to all of life's irritants? Geez.

 

[Karinthy]

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.

It was certainly a negative experience for me, thats why I left a neg feedback. Look at it from my point of view: I can choose between loosing approx $750 and a lot of effort, or kissing goodbye to a minimum of $1400 + devaluation when I sell the car in say three years. And even if he made an honest mistake, it was HIS mistake, not mine: why should I pay for it? He is a professional car dealer and he did claim that the car has been inspected. My mechanic says, anyone with two eyes would recognize the problem. So, he is liable, imho.

I even asked him to pay just the two major repairs ($1400 and he would know that he is not ripped off).. he did not want to. Clearly, he was not open to any compromise. I tried it many ways and then realized that I am just wasting my time.

 

[Karinthy]

And yes, an inspection is only $200, but do you suggest me to do ot BEFORE of AFTER I bought the item?

Think about it: if BEFORE, guess how this will send up the price (which is uncertain in this system anyways). If AFTER, I have 24 hours to make a deposit that I loose if I dont pay in 3 days. Hardly enough time for an inspection.

Thats why there is a place on top of ebay listings where you can write 'inspected'. He did write it there.

 

[Zigner]

And yes, an inspection is only $200, but do you suggest me to do ot BEFORE of AFTER I bought the item?

Think about it: if BEFORE, guess how this will send up the price (which is uncertain in this system anyways). If AFTER, I have 24 hours to make a deposit that I loose if I dont pay in 3 days. Hardly enough time for an inspection.

Thats why there is a place on top of ebay listings where you can write 'inspected'. He did write it there.

This is a PERFECT example of the dangers of buying a vehicle on eBay.
Now, tell me why you HAD to have THIS car? I bet it was a great deal, huh?
(oh, and the answer to your question is that you should have it inspected BEFORE you buy it!)

 

[Karinthy]

Say, you look up three-four cars in advance that you would buy. You set a limit for yourself for them and then wait what happens.. playing your favourite bidding strategy.

Do you suggest the would-be buyer to pay $200/car for inspection?

And even if its one car, there is nothing that ensures that someone else wont want it more than you. And thats just one concern - the other I will not discuss here, but you can easily guess it.

 

[Zigner]

Say, you ...

That's where you lose me. I would NEVER buy a car on eBay without being prepared to lose every penny.

It's your choice to shop on eBay.

 

[quincy]

I, personally, have never quite figured out eBay or Craigs List or any of the other online places that sell stuff. Heavens. There is so much just in my own area that people want to sell - that I can look at, touch, examine, take in for inspection, whatever. Plus, no shipping fees. I know you reach a wider audience online, but I will stick with area newspaper ads. The rest is just a puzzle to me.

 

[CraigFL]

I've bought three cars off Ebay and I inspected 2 of the 3 BEFORE I bid. The third car was from a reputable Ford Dealer that I checked out before I bid. I also had 2 other cars inspected at $350 each that I didn't buy because the inspection revealed things that made me not want to bid on them. Car purchases are "as-is" and you won't get much sympathy from the judge in court if you didn't inspect the car before you bought it. Maybe some sympathy if the seller can be shown to have maliciously misrepresented it or gave specific warranties that were not followed.

As to the seller being angry about the situation, I'd be mad too if I offered more than I even had to and the buyer said no and demanded even more. He could have told you to pound sand which is all he had to do. He tries to be nice and help you beyond his legal responsibility because he obviously cares about his buyers and you crap on him anyway because you won't stand up and accept your part in this.

There are certainly bad people/scammers on Ebay but this guy wasn't one of them. If you continue your ways, you'll find someone who is really out to get you!