Holidays I Celebrate and STBX Does Not

[JacobJoel]

We believe

My husband and i are both christians, basic, fundamental, not jehovah's witnesses or anything, just run of the mill believers.

and we do NOT celebrate the two holidays of signifigance, for the very reason that Bay pointed out. Easter and Christmas are pagan holidays reappointed by the early church so that the pagans that the Roman's were conquering could/would easily assimilate into the church 'culture' of the day.

Neither holiday has anything to do with christianity and as that is historical fact it is easily proven.

having said that, my husband DID, in fact, work out the visitation schedule so that his X could have these two holidays EVERY year. it's stipulated in the parenting plan.

She doesn't get the whole week, if there is a school break; christmas is two weeks, she gets the week that christmas day, proper, falls on and when it comes to easter, she gets that sunday.

it can be done.

but good grief. as a new believer i can only hope you take the time to continually examin your attitudes and personal selfishness on a regular basis so that you don't become one of those self righteous people who think the world needs to become pretzels to accommodate your beliefs.

even a cursory review of the early believers will reveal them to be selfless individuals that went so far as to die for the benefit of others.

THAT is our example.

 

[GaMom0177]

I'm not a lawyer and can't give any type of legal advice. I can try to understand and give another perspective if you are open to it though.

I am speaking strictly to those days with specific religious meaning.

I have a question... is there a particular ceremony that takes place on those days that could not be moved? I mean...and please forgive my ignorance here...is there something like a Catholic Mass on..say...Christmas day that you want them to attend? In that case I can understand you wanting them with you because that type of thing can't be moved.

My ex is agnostic, I lean toward Wiccan spiritualism, one of my children is Christian, and the other hasn't decided yet. My family (excepting my brother) is Christian and they celebrate Christmas on the 24th.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong...I'm just trying to understand why the celebration of the events (Christ's birth, brotherly love, etc.) couldn't be moved. I understand why it would be upsetting to you since your ex places no value on them...but there too..he has a right and obligation to not only teach them his views but also to show them that he stands behind them.

On the other hand, if that isn't what is going on and that isn't what he is doing... it seems to me he is just being inflexible and needs to also be willing to compromise.

I believe someone else mentioned approaching the dad with a "reimbursement" day so to speak when there would be an "off" day from work. For example, asking him to swap Christmas with you in exchange for ****** Luther King Day, or Labor Day, or a weekend day when work and/or school was not an issue. Would he agree to that?

 

[GaMom0177]

Not sure why the *'s showed up before "Luther King Day"...I didn't put them there. Is that because it is a name and was blanked out?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

OP - So you ALWAYS want Christmas - offer him EVERY Thanksgiving long weekend. You ALWAYS want Easter - offer him EVERY Memorial Day weekend, 4th of July weekend, etc.

COMPROMISE. Sweeten the pot.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thanks, everyone.

Wileybunch: actually, he does have a secular approach b/c a secular approach means that he would still celebrate them but just not for religious reasons. He just doesn't celebrate them at all, they are regular days. Which is fine.

Ohiogal: yes, I agree courts should not put one religion over another, although in this case it is one religion over no religion, b/c he is not practicing anything.
I do not wish to take time away from dad, he gets extra time often, all he has to do is request it, which he does.

What if I get Thanksgiving and he gets the day after? Kids are always off then.
I could have Christmas Eve and Day, and he could have the 26th and 27th. Kids are also always off then.
He could have the saturday before Easter and I could have Easter Sunday.


So, let me ask a new question to everyone...
If you were my attorney, you had to represent me in this situation, what would be the best approach/presentation for this?

Thanks, again.

I am an attorney and your religion argument GOES NOWHERE. The court is NOT ALLOWED to grant you more time due to a religion. NOT AT ALL. DEAL WITH IT.

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

I am an attorney and your religion argument GOES NOWHERE. The court is NOT ALLOWED to grant you more time due to a religion. NOT AT ALL. DEAL WITH IT.

Don't hold back Og, tell us what you really think.

 

[Ohiogal]

Don't hold back Og, tell us what you really think.

Oh hell. What I really think is that some new found "Christian" has decided that the world revolves around her and her beliefs and therefore what she thinks is more important than the children having equal time with both parents because we all know that God believes in selfishness and doing onto oneself and not being generous, meek and mild. What I think is that this new found Christian believes that celebrating the "holidays" is the most important part of her belief and that she will be a good "christian" and make sure she is in church four times a year. And it would not do for her presentation to be seen without her children because she committed the sin of having children with an agnostic non-believer and hence we all know that GOD really cares about that. So to deal with her sin she must cleanse herself of all the evil in her life and make sure her children are now clean.
That is what I really think.

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm not a lawyer and can't give any type of legal advice. I can try to understand and give another perspective if you are open to it though.

I am speaking strictly to those days with specific religious meaning.

Every Sunday has religious meaning. Then as for other days with religious meaning -- what brand of Christian are you? Catholic? Presbyterian? There is Ash Wednesday. The first day of Lent. Good Friday. I can come up with dozens of days with specific religious meaning. Yom kippur. Because Jesus was a Jew and therefore we need to include all Jewish holy days.

I have a question... is there a particular ceremony that takes place on those days that could not be moved? I mean...and please forgive my ignorance here...is there something like a Catholic Mass on..say...Christmas day that you want them to attend? In that case I can understand you wanting them with you because that type of thing can't be moved.

There is a Catholic Mass every Sunday. Some Saturdays. Some churches have it daily. They cannot be moved either.

My ex is agnostic, I lean toward Wiccan spiritualism, one of my children is Christian, and the other hasn't decided yet. My family (excepting my brother) is Christian and they celebrate Christmas on the 24th.

There is also Three Kings Day. I can come up with several dozen religious days.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong...I'm just trying to understand why the celebration of the events (Christ's birth, brotherly love, etc.) couldn't be moved. I understand why it would be upsetting to you since your ex places no value on them...but there too..he has a right and obligation to not only teach them his views but also to show them that he stands behind them.

Christmas is a secular day overall. The Bible says nothing about putting up a Christmas tree. That is pagan. OP are you going to put up a tree? If so then you are celebrating a PAGAN tradition.

On the other hand, if that isn't what is going on and that isn't what he is doing... it seems to me he is just being inflexible and needs to also be willing to compromise.

Will you give up Christmas and other holidays that you have off and can celebrate being with your family? The one unwilling to compromise seems to be OP because of her new found faith.

I believe someone else mentioned approaching the dad with a "reimbursement" day so to speak when there would be an "off" day from work. For example, asking him to swap Christmas with you in exchange for ****** Luther King Day, or Labor Day, or a weekend day when work and/or school was not an issue. Would he agree to that?

Why should he have to?

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

Oh hell. What I really think is that some new found "Christian" has decided that the world revolves around her and her beliefs and therefore what she thinks is more important than the children having equal time with both parents because we all know that God believes in selfishness and doing onto oneself and not being generous, meek and mild. What I think is that this new found Christian believes that celebrating the "holidays" is the most important part of her belief and that she will be a good "christian" and make sure she is in church four times a year. And it would not do for her presentation to be seen without her children because she committed the sin of having children with an agnostic non-believer and hence we all know that GOD really cares about that. So to deal with her sin she must cleanse herself of all the evil in her life and make sure her children are now clean.
That is what I really think.

See, I just knew there was more..

 

[txrose1998]

Every Sunday has religious meaning. Then as for other days with religious meaning -- what brand of Christian are you? Catholic? Presbyterian? There is Ash Wednesday. The first day of Lent. Good Friday. I can come up with dozens of days with specific religious meaning. Yom kippur. Because Jesus was a Jew and therefore we need to include all Jewish holy days.



There is a Catholic Mass every Sunday. Some Saturdays. Some churches have it daily. They cannot be moved either.




There is also Three Kings Day. I can come up with several dozen religious days.

Christmas is a secular day overall. The Bible says nothing about putting up a Christmas tree. That is pagan. OP are you going to put up a tree? If so then you are celebrating a PAGAN tradition.




Will you give up Christmas and other holidays that you have off and can celebrate being with your family? The one unwilling to compromise seems to be OP because of her new found faith.



Why should he have to?

OG, might I just say, I think you are wisest person on this forum! YEAH FOR OG!!

 

[GaMom0177]

I wasn't saying he should HAVE to.

I'm sure there are enough religious days to fill most of the calendar year. I was speaking directly to the ones that in the religion mom has chosen seem to be important to her and not to the father. I actually think that dad could and SHOULD assert his views and uphold them.

I also asked about the religious ceremonies because not every mass or religious Sunday event may be the same as the one that celebrates Christ's birthday....maybe it has special significance....I have no idea. If it doesn't...then absolutely....get over it and swap the days yourself because there is no need to swap them around otherwise.

And legally speaking it doesn't matter regardless. I wasn't speaking legally...I was talking about co-parenting. And if she would give him other days when he could have family gatherings that might be an answer. Since they have no meaning to him.

With dad, I was just saying IF that isn't what he is doing....why couldn't he work with her on it? Why not offer him some days to reimburse to try to persuade him?

 

[JacobJoel]

For instructional purposes only...

I must respectfully disagree w/OG, even tho she argueably COULD be the wisest person on this forum, excepting maybe cj, ld, zephyr, and a few other wannabes, and not me.

the bible DOES address christmas trees and does so rather succinctly in Jeremiah 10: 2-4 to wit:

Thus saith the LORD "learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: (this is the explanation that the following is NOT of the God of the bible) for one cutteth a tree of of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. (this is the fashioning of the tree so that it is in the approved shape) They deck it with silver and with gold; (this is decorating of the tree) they fashion it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. (this speaks of planks put on the bottom of the trunk so it can stand upright)

Understand that the tree in this ancient pagan religion, represented the phallic symbol, the giver of life (sperm) and the EVERGREEN tree, specifically was the ETERNAL life giver (because it didn't die in the winter, obviously).

so. you see, the 'christmas' tree IS specifically spoken of, in the negative fashion, in the bible (but only in the KJV, it as has been obliterated in all others).

christmas has NOTHING to do with christianity and to use it as a means to manipulate child timeshare is really not ethical. but only OG would actually come out and say it.

respectfully submitted....

 

[Silverplum]

Or you could just do what every other divorced family does: alternate the holidays. Celebrate whatever when you can.

How many birthday parties have we collectively thrown for our kids, that did NOT fall upon their actual birthday? How many times have we opened gifts on the 28th instead of the 25th?

It's not the end of the world. It's how it works when you are *sharing* child/ren between 2 homes.

 

[GaMom0177]

As to Pagan holidays...I am WELL aware that Yuletide is not a Christian holiday in origins.


That doesn't mean that there aren't specific religious ceremonies tied to it. Ones that a parent would want their child to be involved with.

Again, if dad is protecting something that is valid in his view...I'm all for it.

If not...why not swap with mom for another day that is non-work and non-school?

I would...and have.

 

[JacobJoel]

dontchaluvit???

i love it when a pagan agrees with a die hard believer.

mostly i love being RIGHT.