No custody to Joint custody

[jaxpink]

Since it was only 10 minutes, and he has no idea whether or not someone else was in the apartment, or even whether the kids were in the apartment, no, it would not have been appropriate to call CPS. When you said "extended period of time" we were imagining something a whole lot longer than 10 minutes.

I will agree that 10 minutes is not bad. Although it takes 4 mintues for a child to drown, but 10 minutes is not something CPS would really look into.
Why did Mom even move her car? Did she know Dad was coming over?

 

[greenlady]

I will agree that 10 minutes is not bad. Although it takes 4 mintues for a child to drown, but 10 minutes is not something CPS would really look into.
Why did Mom even move her car? Did she know Dad was coming over?

Here is a quote from my earlier explanation of the story...

Last time he had them (weekend before last) he dropped them off after his Sat. day visit and she informed him that she had plans for Sun and he couldnt have them. She was mad at him for giving a nebulizer treatment 15 mins late. He told her it was his day and he would be there to pick them up and when he showed up Sun morning she had moved her car to a different area of the parking lot so it would look like she wasnt there, and then didnt answer the door when he knocked. So he left her a msg and waited an hour for her to come out and move her car back. She still refused to let him have them and he left.

So that is why she moved her car. She had told him that he couldnt have them because she had plans so she hid the car. Obviously she didn't think he would look for it. Because she didnt do a very good job.

 

[LdiJ]

I will agree that 10 minutes is not bad. Although it takes 4 mintues for a child to drown, but 10 minutes is not something CPS would really look into.
Why did Mom even move her car? Did she know Dad was coming over?

Most likely the children were in bed and asleep....or confined to a playpen...or were being watched by someone else...or weren't even there. This is a mom with twins, despite the fact that she may not be being fair with dad, the odds of her walking out leaving two twin toddlers loose in the apartment is slim to none.

When Greenlady first made her comments that the children were being left alone, I imagined a mom who possibly was putting them to bed and then going out to party. However ten minutes or less while mom goes out and moves her car isn't worth mentioning. Even if mom was neglectful she would care about her "stuff" and would know that two loose toddlers could pretty much total her "stuff" in less than a minute or two.

Obviously mom was trying to pretend that she wasn't home by moving her car in the first place....and then when she though it was safe, she went to move her car back to somewhere more convenient. That makes mom a possible POS...it doesn't make her a neglectful mother.

 

[greenlady]

Most likely the children were in bed and asleep....or confined to a playpen...or were being watched by someone else...or weren't even there. This is a mom with twins, despite the fact that she may not be being fair with dad, the odds of her walking out leaving two twin toddlers loose in the apartment is slim to none.

I completely agree with you about leaving them alone, because despite the fact that she is making dad's life a living hell, she is a very good mother and takes good care of the boys. it was just a fishy situation, and things dont add up.

But the concern was that it was 9am on a Sun when she finally came outside. Dad had been there since before 8am waiting and no one had gone into the apt. Those boys WERE NOT asleep because they have stayed with us many times and are up at 7am latest, and if she had someone there, she was breaking her own (and the court's) rules for overnight visitors, because she has no family in the area that would be there at that time of morning. Dad's concern was of course that she had an overnight guest after she had made such a big stink about it (coming at midnight to our house to pick them up out of a dead sleep after she had someone ride by and scope out my car in the driveway). So that was the concern. Dad knows she would never endanger them. Thats not even an issue.

Even if mom was neglectful she would care about her "stuff" and would know that two loose toddlers could pretty much total her "stuff" in less than a minute or two.

Yes, they are VERY good at this. LOL. They can total my stuff too!!

 

[majomom1]

I completely agree with you about leaving them alone, because despite the fact that she is making dad's life a living hell, she is a very good mother and takes good care of the boys. it was just a fishy situation, and things dont add up.

But the concern was that it was 9am on a Sun when she finally came outside. Dad had been there since before 8am waiting and no one had gone into the apt. Those boys WERE NOT asleep because they have stayed with us many times and are up at 7am latest, and if she had someone there, she was breaking her own (and the court's) rules for overnight visitors, because she has no family in the area that would be there at that time of morning. Dad's concern was of course that she had an overnight guest after she had made such a big stink about it (coming at midnight to our house to pick them up out of a dead sleep after she had someone ride by and scope out my car in the driveway). So that was the concern. Dad knows she would never endanger them. Thats not even an issue.



Yes, they are VERY good at this. LOL. They can total my stuff too!!

I am inclined to agree with Ld... I am sure they were confined in a playpen, or safe place before mom left. Moving the car would not have been a priority or even a big deal. And you really don't even know for sure that the kids were there at all. If mom is playing games, then they could have been with the "someone" that drove by your house in the middle of the night, or one of her friends, while she had a "guest" over.

Do you know who that "someone" is that drove by your house? She obviously has someone willing to help her out. That car might be worth noting, and watching for too.

 

[Bloopy]

We have an RV that I could sleep in on the weekends, but it is parked in our driveway and we tried that with mom and she said no (which I dont blame her for).

And Ohiogal, the wording of the court document says "neither parent shall have overnight visitors while the children are there." I had trouble with that wording myself. I am not a visitor. It is my house and the lease is in my name. Do you really think that is a loophole we can use?

As OG said, of course you’re not an overnight visitor.

But since it’s her place and not his, could it be argued that dad doesn’t have a home to take the children to.

He should file contempt charges for her not following the order. She would then counter on how is living arrangement is against the court order. Then a judge would sort it all out. I think he has a good argument but alas, it is Virginia.

I am NOT a lawyer, nor do I have any legal expertise. I work at a psych hospital for children in Virginia. Most of the kids I work with have been dragged though the family courts. I realize this is a very skewed sample, however I feel safe saying Virginia is very conservative about “family values” and rather pro mom from my exposure.

Were mom and dad ever married? I’ve seen the no-cohabitating argument shot down because the child was already conceived out of wedlock so its not like the parents can honestly claim that is a priority.

You sound like a gem but Dad doesn’t seem to be doing much.

PS... The bit about children being left alone for an “extended period” is LAME!
LdiJ and Majomom1 are probably right and way too nice. If you’re going to post for your BF try to filter his foolishness.

 

[greenlady]

As OG said, of course you’re not an overnight visitor.

But since it’s her place and not his, could it be argued that dad doesn’t have a home to take the children to.

When dad was living with his mother, mom had a problem with that as well because she smoked, and she didnt want the children around that (I dont blame her). It would be a problem no matter where he lived unless he was alone, which is how mom wants him.

He should file contempt charges for her not following the order. She would then counter on how is living arrangement is against the court order. Then a judge would sort it all out. I think he has a good argument but alas, it is Virginia.

He has already filed a show cause on her before the court date in Oct. The judge just slapped her on the wrist and told her she had to let him have his visits.

I am NOT a lawyer, nor do I have any legal expertise. I work at a psych hospital for children in Virginia. Most of the kids I work with have been dragged though the family courts. I realize this is a very skewed sample, however I feel safe saying Virginia is very conservative about “family values” and rather pro mom from my exposure.

The jurisdiction we live in is EXCEPTIONALLY pro mom.

Were mom and dad ever married? I’ve seen the no-cohabitating argument shot down because the child was already conceived out of wedlock so its not like the parents can honestly claim that is a priority.

No they were never married. Interesting, huh?

You sound like a gem but Dad doesn’t seem to be doing much.

Thanks, I try to help the best I can. He does try. Really hard, but he gets SO frustrated with all of her crap.

PS... The bit about children being left alone for an “extended period” is LAME!
LdiJ and Majomom1 are probably right and way too nice. If you’re going to post for your BF try to filter his foolishness.

I only said extended because as far as I'm concerned any time alone is bad, especially for toddlers. Everyone seems to think that she had them on lock down, but I am watching them play as I type this, and no playpin could contain this madness.


And majomom1...dad thinks it was her sister that she got to ride by the house, but we dont know for sure. We were inside trying to get the kids to bed, so we didnt see anything.

 

[greenlady]

Hey Ohiogal...

I was wrong yesterday when I told you what the order for the overnight visitors said. It says "there are to be no significant others spending overnights while the children are with either parent."

Does that eliminate the loophole we talked about, or do we still have something?

Thanks

 

[Ohiogal]

Hey Ohiogal...

I was wrong yesterday when I told you what the order for the overnight visitors said. It says "there are to be no significant others spending overnights while the children are with either parent."

Does that eliminate the loophole we talked about, or do we still have something?

Thanks

Take it to an attorney.

 

[greenlady]

Take it to an attorney.

Yep, I will call next week. Thank you all for all your help!!!!!!

 

[majomom1]

Hey Ohiogal...

I was wrong yesterday when I told you what the order for the overnight visitors said. It says "there are to be no significant others spending overnights while the children are with either parent."

Does that eliminate the loophole we talked about, or do we still have something?

Thanks

I think Bloopy's point was a valid argument too. If they were not married, when they conceived then that should also help with the argument. I think typically the 'no overnight visitors' is to keep from having multiple people treading through the lives of the children. But if you 'live' there... that is different, IMO.

 

[LdiJ]

Hey Ohiogal...

I was wrong yesterday when I told you what the order for the overnight visitors said. It says "there are to be no significant others spending overnights while the children are with either parent."

Does that eliminate the loophole we talked about, or do we still have something?

Thanks

Well, you ARE a significant other spending overnights. It doesn't say visitor. So I would think that mom has a case for contempt as well.

 

[CJane]

If they were not married, when they conceived then that should also help with the argument.

It would have helped the argument to keep it out of the order. But it's IN the order... so arguing that angle NOW will be less effective.

I'm wondering if Dad and OP were living together when the order was made, or only moved in together afterwards.

Also, if Mom's 'visitor' that was allegedly keeping an eye on the kids while she moved her car wasn't a significant other, it's irrelevant if they'd been there for 20 nights. Yanno?

 

[jaxpink]

Well, you ARE a significant other spending overnights. It doesn't say visitor. So I would think that mom has a case for contempt as well.

Now what the heck happens when Mom and/or Dad marry? I mean thats stupid.
Who's idea was that?

 

[Silverplum]

Now what the heck happens when Mom and/or Dad marry? I mean thats stupid.
Who's idea was that?

Good gravy -- those orders refer, always, to UNmarried people!