New, questioin about hospitalization

[aprilmama3]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

Hi all. I am a single mother of 3, ages 9,6, and 1. My ds, the 6 year old, has a different father from the two girls, and it is his father I am seeking advice over.

Ds has several problems. He has been diagnosed with Asperger's, ADHD, ODD, conduct disorder and anxiety. He has been under the care of a psychiatrist as well as his pediatrician, plus sees a play therapist and behavior therapist weekly. Ds's problems first showed themselves before he was two. Until last Friday, Dad has always refused to be involved with his medical care, or schooling or anything else for that matter. During the handful of times different teachers or counselors have been able to reach Dad by phone, he has always been rude, refused to discuss the issues, and stated that what they consider ds's problems are all in my head or because of me. He has even stated that he can not concern himself with anything other than what happens on his weekends. He also has frequently skipped visits, being caught in lies about his reason although I never actually called him on the lies.

So fast forward to today. Ds has become increasingly violent in the past couple of weeks, biting, kicking and hitting his teachers, other students, sisters and myself. This morning he decided to choke his one year old sister. This child weighs 80 pounds, is well over 4 foot tall and is strong as an ox. I can not physically restrain him by myself. The psychiatrist decided to admit ds to the hospital in order to get him some more intensive therapy and find the right meds for him. I did argue with the doc a bit as I did NOT want this for him, but I do want to get him the help he desperately needs. So when I got home from all of this, I called dad to inform him. He became irate, screaming incoherently at me. Then he called the hospital (they called me because he talked to ds and got him upset and worked up again) and told them that he will be at the hospital tomorrow morning with lawyers and they WILL release ds to him. We have joint legal with me having primary physical custody. Dad has made it very clear in the past he does not wish to participate in any of these decisions. Now he is not even answering the phone to me so I can give him the rest of the information from the hospital (he hung up on me after his tirade). The hospital says they can not release ds to anyone other than the person that signed consent (me) because he is a danger to himself and others at this time. So if dad does show up and does not get what he wants, this will anger him further. (He will probably wind up in jail for what he will do there.) My question is, since the doctor ordered ds to be admitted and it will clearly show in the records that I did not request this, can he take custody of ds from me? Sorry so long, thanks if you got this far!

 

[penelope10]

I am not sure of your question---are you asking can Dad take son out of the hospital???
Sounds doubtful if the doctor put him in the hospital since the child was exhibiting behaviors showing that he was a danger to himself and others.

You have notified the Dad of the child's medical treatments and of his hospitalization, so you have done nothing wrong.

Dr. probably wants to not only check out the meds in a controlled environment, but may also want to reevaluate your psychiatric diagnosis.

Not a legal opinion though, one of the other posters may know the legal answer.

 

[BL]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

Hi all. I am a single mother of 3, ages 9,6, and 1. My ds, the 6 year old, has a different father from the two girls, and it is his father I am seeking advice over.

Ds has several problems. He has been diagnosed with Asperger's, ADHD, ODD, conduct disorder and anxiety. He has been under the care of a psychiatrist as well as his pediatrician, plus sees a play therapist and behavior therapist weekly. Ds's problems first showed themselves before he was two. Until last Friday, Dad has always refused to be involved with his medical care, or schooling or anything else for that matter. During the handful of times different teachers or counselors have been able to reach Dad by phone, he has always been rude, refused to discuss the issues, and stated that what they consider ds's problems are all in my head or because of me. He has even stated that he can not concern himself with anything other than what happens on his weekends. He also has frequently skipped visits, being caught in lies about his reason although I never actually called him on the lies.

So fast forward to today. Ds has become increasingly violent in the past couple of weeks, biting, kicking and hitting his teachers, other students, sisters and myself. This morning he decided to choke his one year old sister. This child weighs 80 pounds, is well over 4 foot tall and is strong as an ox. I can not physically restrain him by myself. The psychiatrist decided to admit ds to the hospital in order to get him some more intensive therapy and find the right meds for him. I did argue with the doc a bit as I did NOT want this for him, but I do want to get him the help he desperately needs. So when I got home from all of this, I called dad to inform him. He became irate, screaming incoherently at me. Then he called the hospital (they called me because he talked to ds and got him upset and worked up again) and told them that he will be at the hospital tomorrow morning with lawyers and they WILL release ds to him. We have joint legal with me having primary physical custody. Dad has made it very clear in the past he does not wish to participate in any of these decisions. Now he is not even answering the phone to me so I can give him the rest of the information from the hospital (he hung up on me after his tirade). The hospital says they can not release ds to anyone other than the person that signed consent (me) because he is a danger to himself and others at this time. So if dad does show up and does not get what he wants, this will anger him further. (He will probably wind up in jail for what he will do there.) My question is, since the doctor ordered ds to be admitted and it will clearly show in the records that I did not request this, can he take custody of ds from me? Sorry so long, thanks if you got this far!

The Drs. have admitted the child as a danger .

He won't be released .

IMO , if you could have gotten ahold of Dad right away when you couldn't restrain him , you should have .

If you couldn't , fine , you did the right thing .

I don't see a change in residence , unless Dad can show the kid don't act up with him , and there's an improvement in school .

I doubt that will happen though .

If you need brakes now and then a respite might be in order , although Dad has Joint legal and should have a say .

The way Dad reacts is his problem . Perhaps he feels forced on the issues . It can be very frustrating .

 

[Bloopy]

My question is, since the doctor ordered ds to be admitted and it will clearly show in the records that I did not request this, can he take custody of ds from me? Sorry so long, thanks if you got this far!

You’re set legally. You’d more likely be found negligent for NOT admitting the child than for following the doctor’s recommendations and advising Dad.

I’m sorry for what you are going through. But I am glad you’re giving hospitalization a chance. Love him you may, but he need’s more help that you are able to give on your own. You may have saved his or you other children’s lives.

Um, yeah. That wasn’t legal advice.

 

[penelope10]

The Drs. have admitted the child as a danger .

He won't be released .

IMO , if you could have gotten ahold of Dad right away when you couldn't restrain him , you should have .

If you couldn't , fine , you did the right thing .

I don't see a change in residence , unless Dad can show the kid don't act up with him , and there's an improvement in school .

I doubt that will happen though .

If you need brakes now and then a respite might be in order , although Dad has Joint legal and should have a say .

The way Dad reacts is his problem . Perhaps he feels forced on the issues . It can be very frustrating .

This is not legal advice , but just wanted to add---many times it is hard for a parent to accept that their child has a mental illness. In the case of a divorce sometimes one parent will blame the other's parenting skills rather than face reality.

The good news is you have been a responsible, loving parent, who is trying to help her child in the best way you can. You aren't playing the blame game, and you're not ignoring the problem.

There is documentation that your son has a real psychiatric disorder and that YOU are trying to realistically deal with your son's problems.

Dad can bluster, throw fits, but if comes down to going to court I doubt if custody is going to be taken away from you.

And Dad wants to behave like a "nut" at the hospital and pitch a violent fit maybe a few hours in jail cooling his heels will be a good attitude adjuster for him...Just what the doctor ordered.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

Hi all. I am a single mother of 3, ages 9,6, and 1. My ds, the 6 year old, has a different father from the two girls, and it is his father I am seeking advice over.

Ds has several problems. He has been diagnosed with Asperger's, ADHD, ODD, conduct disorder and anxiety. He has been under the care of a psychiatrist as well as his pediatrician, plus sees a play therapist and behavior therapist weekly. Ds's problems first showed themselves before he was two. Until last Friday, Dad has always refused to be involved with his medical care, or schooling or anything else for that matter. During the handful of times different teachers or counselors have been able to reach Dad by phone, he has always been rude, refused to discuss the issues, and stated that what they consider ds's problems are all in my head or because of me. He has even stated that he can not concern himself with anything other than what happens on his weekends. He also has frequently skipped visits, being caught in lies about his reason although I never actually called him on the lies.

So fast forward to today. Ds has become increasingly violent in the past couple of weeks, biting, kicking and hitting his teachers, other students, sisters and myself. This morning he decided to choke his one year old sister. This child weighs 80 pounds, is well over 4 foot tall and is strong as an ox. I can not physically restrain him by myself. The psychiatrist decided to admit ds to the hospital in order to get him some more intensive therapy and find the right meds for him. I did argue with the doc a bit as I did NOT want this for him, but I do want to get him the help he desperately needs. So when I got home from all of this, I called dad to inform him. He became irate, screaming incoherently at me. Then he called the hospital (they called me because he talked to ds and got him upset and worked up again) and told them that he will be at the hospital tomorrow morning with lawyers and they WILL release ds to him. We have joint legal with me having primary physical custody. Dad has made it very clear in the past he does not wish to participate in any of these decisions. Now he is not even answering the phone to me so I can give him the rest of the information from the hospital (he hung up on me after his tirade). The hospital says they can not release ds to anyone other than the person that signed consent (me) because he is a danger to himself and others at this time. So if dad does show up and does not get what he wants, this will anger him further. (He will probably wind up in jail for what he will do there.) My question is, since the doctor ordered ds to be admitted and it will clearly show in the records that I did not request this, can he take custody of ds from me? Sorry so long, thanks if you got this far!

Hon....you are dealing with a situation that is far too complicated for an internet message forum.

The eventual placement of your son not only depends on what is best for him, but also what is best for his siblings, particularly your one year old.

Certainly it doesn't sound like his father understands or accepts his child's problems, but it also appears that you may be living in denial a bit too.

I don't think that dad is going to be able to show up at the hospital tommorrow and wrest custody from you, but I also don't think that you are necessarily going to be able to maintain custody either.

Talk to the social workers at the hospital.

 

[Just Blue]

Hon....you are dealing with a situation that is far too complicated for an internet message forum.

The eventual placement of your son not only depends on what is best for him, but also what is best for his siblings, particularly your one year old.

Certainly it doesn't sound like his father understands or accepts his child's problems, but it also appears that you may be living in denial a bit too.

I don't think that dad is going to be able to show up at the hospital tommorrow and wrest custody from you, but I also don't think that you are necessarily going to be able to maintain custody either.

Talk to the social workers at the hospital.

I was thinking the same thing. If the child is a threat to his little brother/sister he will not be able to stay in the home. Perhaps the SW could talk to Dad to get him educated on this child's need and the child could be placed with him...It is harder to except ASD when you don't deal with it every day. My sister STILL insists that my little one doesn't have PDD........Despite reading the reports from one of the best Pedi-Neurologist in the state and an eval with FOUR Neuropsychologists. My point is perhaps Dad is just having a hard time dealing with the fact that his son is "different".

Good luck and I hope that this is resolved in a way that protects all your children...

Bay

 

[BL]

Hon....you are dealing with a situation that is far too complicated for an internet message forum.

The eventual placement of your son not only depends on what is best for him, but also what is best for his siblings, particularly your one year old.

Certainly it doesn't sound like his father understands or accepts his child's problems, but it also appears that you may be living in denial a bit too.

I don't think that dad is going to be able to show up at the hospital tommorrow and wrest custody from you, but I also don't think that you are necessarily going to be able to maintain custody either.

Talk to the social workers at the hospital.

The trouble can be the hosp. will keep a child like that short term , then deem the child no longer is a danger and release them with a plan .

It is a cycle , and not an easy one to maneuver through .

Sense the child is ODD , with behavioral problems , you can almost be assured the child will focus the blame on moms care or lack of .

You can then almost be assured that's what the providers will be focusing on , warranted or not , because they are focusing on treating the child and family .

 

[aprilmama3]

Thank you

Thank you all for your replies. Just got an update from the hospital and ds is sleeping finally and I will be able to see him tomorrow afternoon Ds has been under the care of his doctors and therapists for quite some time, and all have stated his problems are not because of me, but in spite of me if that makes sense. All have offered not too long ago (Dad was mad about something else then and threatening court) to testify for me if need be.

I understand that the court would want to look at the safety of ALL of the children involved, but SM (well Dad's girlfriend anyhow) also has two very small children, so safety is an issue there as well. Dad did at one time have physical custody because I needed surgery and signed over temp. custody until I was back on my feet and ds did no better there than here. He went through 5 daycares/sitters in one week, broke another child's nose in daycare and knocked an 18 month old baby unconscious.

We do get respite care twice a week for one hour, I have a parenting coach that comes to my home once a week to make sure I know the correct holds for ds, how to keep my cool, how to help ds recognize how to deal with his anger, etc. Ds receives wraparound services, anything that I can find to help him we do. I don't think the blame game would do any of us any good, ds is who he is regardless if there is fault anywhere or not. I guess if Dad did end up getting custody I will at least know I did all I could for him. I just would hate so much to see him go to Dad's and not get any help at all and end up seriously hurting someone and eventually in jail or worse. Thanks again everyone!

 

[penelope10]

Good luck! I'll keep you in my prayers!

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Thank you all for your replies. Just got an update from the hospital and ds is sleeping finally and I will be able to see him tomorrow afternoon Ds has been under the care of his doctors and therapists for quite some time, and all have stated his problems are not because of me, but in spite of me if that makes sense. All have offered not too long ago (Dad was mad about something else then and threatening court) to testify for me if need be.

I understand that the court would want to look at the safety of ALL of the children involved, but SM (well Dad's girlfriend anyhow) also has two very small children, so safety is an issue there as well. Dad did at one time have physical custody because I needed surgery and signed over temp. custody until I was back on my feet and ds did no better there than here. He went through 5 daycares/sitters in one week, broke another child's nose in daycare and knocked an 18 month old baby unconscious.

We do get respite care twice a week for one hour, I have a parenting coach that comes to my home once a week to make sure I know the correct holds for ds, how to keep my cool, how to help ds recognize how to deal with his anger, etc. Ds receives wraparound services, anything that I can find to help him we do. I don't think the blame game would do any of us any good, ds is who he is regardless if there is fault anywhere or not. I guess if Dad did end up getting custody I will at least know I did all I could for him. I just would hate so much to see him go to Dad's and not get any help at all and end up seriously hurting someone and eventually in jail or worse. Thanks again everyone!

From the sounds of it, you are doing all the right things. The social workers at the hospital should be able to assist you in these matters. I would look to see if the respite workers could provide more time than an hour. Just going to the grocery store takes longer than that.

If dad isn't willing to participate in your son's hospitalization plan, then it wouldn't look that good in court for him. That you both have small children in the house will be looked at by the social workers too. They may have ideas with that.

 

[aprilmama3]

Update on whole situation

Thanks for all of the help everyone! Dad talked to ds's doctor, two therapists, and school counselor the day after ds was hospitalized, and all told him I was a good mother and had been doing everything possible for ds. He then called me and said he had decided not to take me to court because it would "cost him too much money, and he couldn't handle him anyway". Then he asked me if I would call the prosecutor's office and ask that child support be stopped for the week or so that ds is in the hospital. I told him he was welcome to call them himself, but I had more important things to worry about at the moment (our son). Dad has refused to visit or call ds while he is in the hospital.

Ds seems to be doing well. His meds have been changed, he seems a lot more "with it" than he did before, and he's been pretty mellow. The first two nights in there he had to be sedated for physically attacking the nurses, but has had no sedation since. (He's on his fourth day). If he continues making progress as he is right now, he will get to come home on Monday.

We do have a new issue that has come up relating to this one. I kept an appointment we had with one of the home-based programs today, and this lady is insisting I report myself to Child Protective Services over the incident of Ds choking my 1 year old dd. She says if I don't do it, then she will and it will look very bad on me that I had not self-reported. Now I could see this IF nothing were done and ds was allowed to continue this behavior, BUT I contacted his therapist immediately and followed their recommendation (or order however you want to look at it) which was hospitalization. I've been proactive in doing everything possible to keep my other children safe, which is the whole point of all of these services and meds and all. I thought CPS was for people that either hurt or neglected their kids or intentionally let others do it. And if they can report a 6 year old for fighting with his sister, then why has he not been reported before now for fighting at school? School personnel are mandatory reporters, right? Sorry this has turned so long, I'm just really upset over this as I've worked hard all my life to keep CPS away from my kids! Thanks for listening.

 

[Just Blue]

You can't compare a 6 year old fighting at school to that same 6 year old trying to strangle his 1 year old sibling. The therapist is a mandated reporter, and must report this event.

 

[aprilmama3]

Well I didn't go into much detail with the fighting at school because didn't think it was too relevant, but he goes to school and rides the bus with 3,4, and 5 year olds and has choked, bit, hit and kicked quite a few of them. Also, aren't licensed daycare workers mandated reporters? When ds was 4 (while he was living with dad) he broke another boys nose and hit an 18 month old with a baseball bat, knocking the child unconscious. Of course, this is the story I got from Dad, but can't imagine he would make THAT up. I suppose it doesn't matter, it's not like I'm going to turn anyone in for not reporting this, but am more curious than anything. Thanks


Please don't anyone think I am trying to trivialize what ds did to dd! Just have a lot of questions about why now and who should have done this before!

 

[Ohiogal]

Well I didn't go into much detail with the fighting at school because didn't think it was too relevant, but he goes to school and rides the bus with 3,4, and 5 year olds and has choked, bit, hit and kicked quite a few of them. Also, aren't licensed daycare workers mandated reporters? When ds was 4 (while he was living with dad) he broke another boys nose and hit an 18 month old with a baseball bat, knocking the child unconscious. Of course, this is the story I got from Dad, but can't imagine he would make THAT up. I suppose it doesn't matter, it's not like I'm going to turn anyone in for not reporting this, but am more curious than anything. Thanks


Please don't anyone think I am trying to trivialize what ds did to dd! Just have a lot of questions about why now and who should have done this before!

Your son hit a TODDLER with a baseball bat? And broke a child's nose? You and dad are extremely lucky you weren't sued -- extremely lucky. I would prepare for lawsuits in the future if your child doesn't become managed.