New, questioin about hospitalization

[Just Blue]

Well I didn't go into much detail with the fighting at school because didn't think it was too relevant, but he goes to school and rides the bus with 3,4, and 5 year olds and has choked, bit, hit and kicked quite a few of them. Also, aren't licensed daycare workers mandated reporters? When ds was 4 (while he was living with dad) he broke another boys nose and hit an 18 month old with a baseball bat, knocking the child unconscious. Of course, this is the story I got from Dad, but can't imagine he would make THAT up. I suppose it doesn't matter, it's not like I'm going to turn anyone in for not reporting this, but am more curious than anything. Thanks


Please don't anyone think I am trying to trivialize what ds did to dd! Just have a lot of questions about why now and who should have done this before!

April, Your son should not be placed with exposure to other children. He is dangerous to them. He could kill another child if this is not addressed...And if it were my child that was assaulted at Day Care by a child whom is a KNOWN threat to others, you and the center would have had a law suit on your hands. You need to have your child placed in an environment that will limit the danger to other children. You have tried to deal with this yourself, and I am not criticizing your love or abilities as a parent...but he has problem that are beyond you to solve or control.

Call CPS. They will be able to direct you to resources that will help your son...

Bay

 

[penelope10]

Well I didn't go into much detail with the fighting at school because didn't think it was too relevant, but he goes to school and rides the bus with 3,4, and 5 year olds and has choked, bit, hit and kicked quite a few of them. Also, aren't licensed daycare workers mandated reporters? When ds was 4 (while he was living with dad) he broke another boys nose and hit an 18 month old with a baseball bat, knocking the child unconscious. Of course, this is the story I got from Dad, but can't imagine he would make THAT up. I suppose it doesn't matter, it's not like I'm going to turn anyone in for not reporting this, but am more curious than anything. Thanks


Please don't anyone think I am trying to trivialize what ds did to dd! Just have a lot of questions about why now and who should have done this before!

A professional has now deemed that your son's behavior is dangerous enough to be reported to CPS and is advising you to do it or she will. Whether or not others should have reported him is a non issue.

What is the therapist and other professionals advising you to do as far as placement for your son? Do they feel it is safe for him to return to your home?

 

[aprilmama3]

They are hopeful that with the right medications ds CAN become manageable and return home. See, he has not been on meds and in therapy for long because no doctor in my area would consider it for a child who was not school-age. He only started kindergarten this fall, and immediately started therapy and meds. I have come to peace with the fact that if he does not become manageable then we will have to look into other options for him. The reason I brought up the daycare issues is just a curiosity one. Since ds was in dad's custody at that time I was thinking that if it had been reported back then, maybe the doctor's dad was using (different area than mine) would have HAD to do something to help him then and ds wouldn't have gotten to this point. The comment about being sued is a good one, as I would have certainly done that myself had it been one of my children. I don't know why those parents never did, why it was never an issue other than ds being sent home from daycare that one day. Thanks!

 

[Ohiogal]

They are hopeful that with the right medications ds CAN become manageable and return home. See, he has not been on meds and in therapy for long because no doctor in my area would consider it for a child who was not school-age. He only started kindergarten this fall, and immediately started therapy and meds. I have come to peace with the fact that if he does not become manageable then we will have to look into other options for him. The reason I brought up the daycare issues is just a curiosity one. Since ds was in dad's custody at that time I was thinking that if it had been reported back then, maybe the doctor's dad was using (different area than mine) would have HAD to do something to help him then and ds wouldn't have gotten to this point. The comment about being sued is a good one, as I would have certainly done that myself had it been one of my children. I don't know why those parents never did, why it was never an issue other than ds being sent home from daycare that one day. Thanks!

Where were you during that time though? YOu act as though you had nothing to do with your ds getting to this point. Quite frankly that is NOT how the law looks at it. You are his mother and therefore you are JUST as responsible as dad at allowing your son to reach this violent point. Unless you can show that you tried to obtain help for him (court papers showing it) and dad refused, you are not innocent. You want to put the blame on dad and the doctors dad was using yet my question is why weren't you doing anything? Why didn't you try then? Why didn't you report the situation?
This child has two parents and you and dad playing the blame game is not going to work. YOU ARE BOTH responsible for not getting your child help when he assaulted a toddler and broke another child's nose.

 

[aprilmama3]

Where were you during that time though? YOu act as though you had nothing to do with your ds getting to this point. Quite frankly that is NOT how the law looks at it. You are his mother and therefore you are JUST as responsible as dad at allowing your son to reach this violent point. Unless you can show that you tried to obtain help for him (court papers showing it) and dad refused, you are not innocent. You want to put the blame on dad and the doctors dad was using yet my question is why weren't you doing anything? Why didn't you try then? Why didn't you report the situation?
This child has two parents and you and dad playing the blame game is not going to work. YOU ARE BOTH responsible for not getting your child help when he assaulted a toddler and broke another child's nose.

Well as a matter of fact I was in West Texas recovering from some serious medical procedures (the whole reason for ds being with Dad in the first place) and Dad and ds were in Tennessee. That is neither here nor there though. I stated that the doctors in my area would not treat him until he started school. Yes, I have his medical records from a pediatrician, developmental pediatrician, and psychologist showing that yes, they thought he had problems, bring him back when he started school. I think you misunderstood my post. I was not trying to play the blame game with Dad, I was saying if the authorities in Tennessee had been contacted over the daycare issues (because that's where ds lived and attended the daycare at) maybe the doctors THERE would have done something. I did not know at the time, or even until today that this was a CPS issue. As I am sure Dad did not. Yes, it is documented in court transcripts that Dad denies there is a problem. However, that is not really an issue because I know there is a problem and am getting ds as much help as is available.

 

[Ohiogal]

Well as a matter of fact I was in West Texas recovering from some serious medical procedures (the whole reason for ds being with Dad in the first place) and Dad and ds were in Tennessee. That is neither here nor there though.

Actually YES it is here or there. It matters legally. YOU neglected your son's medical care then and did nothing until YOUR youngest was in danger. YOu basically said to hell with any other child because it apparently was not important to you. LEGALLY, with you knowing about his issues, YOU could be brought up on neglect now for what happened then.

I stated that the doctors in my area would not treat him until he started school.

So you did nothing. DId you put your child in counseling?

Yes, I have his medical records from a pediatrician, developmental pediatrician, and psychologist showing that yes, they thought he had problems, bring him back when he started school.

That is nice. What about a therapist or counselor to help him work out his problems that way and not just through medication? And a psychologist is NOT a psychiatrist. So which of those did you see?

I think you misunderstood my post. I was not trying to play the blame game with Dad, I was saying if the authorities in Tennessee had been contacted over the daycare issues (because that's where ds lived and attended the daycare at) maybe the doctors THERE would have done something.

No. I did not misunderstand your post. Parents have the ULTIMATE responsibility for their children. NOT the doctors. PARENTS. What the facts are is that you allowed your child to get away with assulating two children -- one to the point of a broken nose and the other to the point of unconsciousness -- and did nothing until YOUR own child was in danger. You were callous and uncaring and put countless other children in danger. Did you inform any other daycare of your child's propensity for violence or did you keep mum about his "issues"?

I did not know at the time, or even until today that this was a CPS issue. As I am sure Dad did not. Yes, it is documented in court transcripts that Dad denies there is a problem. However, that is not really an issue because I know there is a problem and am getting ds as much help as is available.

But you WAITED to continue getting him help. YOU WAITED until your own child was put in danger. That is a major issue.

 

[LdiJ]

I am having a little bit of a problem with this story. First, I cannot imagine any daycare center having an actual baseball bat on hand. Maybe a plastic one, but not a real one. I am also not sure that a plastic one, wielded by a 4 year old, could result in knocking an 18 month old unconcious.

I also cannot imagine any daycare center not reporting actions that seriously injured two children, nor the parents of those two children not taking serious action themselves, particularly parents of the 18 month old.

Nevertheless, if all this is for real, then I agree that this child does not belong in a setting with other children, at least for now. He has a proven track record of being dangerous to other children. I also suspect that the insistance of getting CPS involved is because mom does not seem to take this situation quite as seriously as she should.

 

[stealth2]

I can't disagree with previous posters. OP - where is the father of the other two kids? I think you need to seriously consider sending them to him if your son comes home on Monday. If I were in your shoes, there is no way that I would jeopardize their safety by having them in the house with your son at this point. If you don't see that you're being negligent otherwise, then.... CPS really should be involved.

 

[my life is mine]

aprilmama

Here are some help related links

http://www.arcind.org/

http://www.idtc-in.com/disabilities.html

http://www.fwsdc.com/transition-support/?a=faq-homes

Hope that you are able to get all the appropriate care for your son.

 

[aprilmama3]

Last post

This is the last reply I am posting to this thread as everything I try to clarify is getting either misunderstood further or not being read properly.

OP - where is the father of the other two kids? The father of the other two kids, my husband, passed away this past fall. Thank you for asking.I know it is odd that the oldest and youngest have the same father, but too long of a story to type here.

I am having a little bit of a problem with this story. First, I cannot imagine any daycare center having an actual baseball bat on hand. Maybe a plastic one, but not a real one. I am also not sure that a plastic one, wielded by a 4 year old, could result in knocking an 18 month old unconcious. I do not know the particulars. As I said, I only know these stories from Dad. I can not imagine he would lie about this, but I suppose anything is possible. It was shortly after these incidents that Dad and I both moved to Indiana and Ds came back to me. I always used family sitters and did not have any problems until he started school, and the problems did not get worse until we tried a new med about a month ago. I did not find out until yesterday that his regular doc feels that med is what actually put ds to the point he is at now.

I also suspect that the insistance of getting CPS involved is because mom does not seem to take this situation quite as seriously as she should. How could I not be taking the situation seriously? I willingly admitted my 6 year old ds to a psychiatric hospital! If the medicine he was on was what was causing his outburst that morning, then yes he will be coming home as soon as he is off of it and on something that better stabilizes him. If it is just the way that he is then I have looked into several other options for him, including letting him live with his paternal aunt which will happen before he is placed in a "home".

Actually YES it is here or there. I said it is neither here nor there because YES I WAS DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE SITUATION and have documents to prove it. Like I said, I took him to a pediatrician, developmental pediatrician, and psychologist when he came to visit me in Texas. I DID petition the court for Dad to seek medical treatment in his area, but the petition was never heard because that was when we both moved back here and Ds came back to me. I still have copies of that petition with the file date stamped on it. My child did see a behavioral therapist for a bit when he was with me, which released him after teaching me ways to handle him and calm him because he did not have the language skills necessary for he himself to get anything out of the sessions other than playing with new toys by himself. Of course, I can't force dad to attend these sessions or use anything that is recommended. He did see a speech therapist as well at this same time, but has still only recently acquired the language skills necessary to understand what he is being told and to hold a conversation.

And a psychologist is NOT a psychiatrist. So which of those did you see? He saw a PSYCHOLOGIST in Texas, who would do nothing for him. He is currently seeing a PSYCHIATRIST that is doing everything she can for him. I do know the difference. You can not force any medical professional to do any kind of treatment that they don't want to or make a practice not to do. I was merely SAYING maybe practices would have been different in TENNESSEE (dad's area) than in TEXAS (my area), and the docs in TENNESSEE would have done something if it had been reported then. While ds lived in Tennessee, he was only able to visit me in Texas twice, for a few weeks at a time. That is the entire extent of time that I was not in the hospital. I did everything I could during those times. I am NOT going to sit here and blow off about Dad not doing everything he could when he had ds so long, because it will NOT help now! I have not neglected anything, did not allow him to get away with anything. I have plenty of medical and legal documents to back this up. Thank you!

 

[stealth2]

This is the last reply I am posting to this thread as everything I try to clarify is getting either misunderstood further or not being read properly.

OP - where is the father of the other two kids? The father of the other two kids, my husband, passed away this past fall. Thank you for asking.I know it is odd that the oldest and youngest have the same father, but too long of a story to type here.

Then I would seriously consider having the other two children stay with other family until you can be certain that the new meds actually HAVE stabilized your son. I just wouldn't want to take that risk. Sorry.

 

[kat1963]

I’m sorry, but if this was my child I would obtain a lawyer & get him into therapeutic foster care instead of having him released back into the home. Therapeutic care is usually one on one & they can work wonders!

What are you going to do if in a week or two these meds don’t work? He seriously injures your baby or a child at school? Do you want your other children removed due to your “failure to protect”? No. Even if it takes making this little six year old a ward of the state for a while in order to provide him the care that he needs I think you should do it. Meds aren’t the end all be all for his kind of problem. It won’t be long before he will be a teenager & simply refuses to take them..what then?

The time to act is now, while he’s still young and you still have custody & control.

Your other children deserve to have some peace in the house too.

Good luck.

Kat

 

[my life is mine]

Aprilmama, are you in IN or TX or TN?

I understand what you are dealing with when it comes to child, btdt, and now child is a grown adult doing quite well if I say so myself.

If you wish to pm me I will gladly write you back.

 

[aprilmama3]

Ok, so it wasn't my last post. Sorry. There were some good questions I wanted to answer and give an update.

First: Aprilmama, are you in IN or TX or TN? I know this is confusing. I and dad both live in IN now. When we were together we lived in TX (where I was born and raised). After we seperated, dad moved to TN. As soon as I was able to resume the care for ds, we both decided we needed to live closer to each other (we were 900 miles apart). I had been wanting to move to IN anyway because I have some family that live here and dad has a sister that lives here so we all moved up here. Our current court orders are through IN as we had venue changed from TX.

if this was my child I would obtain a lawyer & get him into therapeutic foster care instead of having him released back into the home. Therapeutic care is usually one on one & they can work wonders! I did not know there was such a thing as therapeutic foster care. Would you care to take the time to explain it a bit? Do I have to relinquish custody or my rights as his parent? My fear with something like this, (which I admit may be an unfounded fear because I don't know any better) is that I would relinquish custody and then if the foster family decided they wanted to adopt him they could and I would never see him again. But we are looking for other options for him in case thats what he needs, dad and I actually have had 2 conversations this weekend about it.

Now for the update: Ds will NOT be released tomorrow. He has had several violent outbursts even with the new meds. I do know meds are not a cure all for him, that was another reason his doc and therapist thought he should go there. He gets very intensive daily therapy as opposed to his regular once a week with the therapist and once with the counselor. He is getting anger management, group therapy, play therapy, art therapy, and family therapy all in one day, every day. One of his two therapists there are on the floor at all times and available to him if he needs to talk outside of therapy.

Thanks!

 

[my life is mine]

First: Aprilmama, are you in IN or TX or TN? I know this is confusing. I and dad both live in IN now. When we were together we lived in TX (where I was born and raised). After we seperated, dad moved to TN. As soon as I was able to resume the care for ds, we both decided we needed to live closer to each other (we were 900 miles apart). I had been wanting to move to IN anyway because I have some family that live here and dad has a sister that lives here so we all moved up here. Our current court orders are through IN as we had venue changed from TX.

Thank you for clarifing this for me, I thought perhaps I was giving you links for an incorrect State.

One thing I was able to do for my child, was Residental Placement, which provides a structured, supportive setting for boys and girls to address issues of attachment, hyperactivity, aggressiveness, out of control and self destructive behaviors, depression, trauma, abuse, and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, as well as school and socialization issues. The Program focus, in addition to individual treatment issues, is on the development of positive, goal-oriented behaviors, development of social and communications skills, and enhancement of self esteem. Clinical therapies and medication management are combined with structured classroom and living milieus, activity and music therapy to address the presenting issues at multiple levels.


Therapeutic Foster Care Program is designed to provide a safe and therapeutic environment for youth that must be removed from their family. The Therapeutic Foster Care home provides a stable, predictable, nurturing home environment with a teaching parent. The parent supports the youth in learning healthy responses in stressful situations, and to develop socially appropriate behaviors. The youth is matched with a teaching family that can maximize the youth's strengths and provide effective treatment. Home visits with the family are planned when appropriate to assist the youth in adjusting to the home. As the youth progress toward meeting the goals of treatment, a step-down program is implemented to assist the youth in a less structured setting. At this level, all adjunctive support is provided in the community