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Question of Ownership?

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GeorgeVA

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Virginia.

My Father had a life insurance policy on me. Im not sure when it was taken out or any details on it. He passed away in 2005 and my sister took over the payments. I am completely in the dark and not sure what is going on...

My sister was the executor of his will but I believe the owner of the policy is still my father but the beneficiary is now my sister. Is this legal?

I recently asked her if I could take over payments and make my wife beneficiary as I am now married. The bill is addressed to me, yet it goes to their house and they become very defensive when I ask about it. ( They meaning my sister and her husband )

Their theory on things is - "we took over payments and you have no say over any decisions on the policy."

Do I have any rights here?

Thanks for any advice.
Much appreciated.
George in VA
 


justalayman

Senior Member
if you have seen the bill, I would assume you know who the insurance company is. Call them and speak with them and ask them about it. They may not be able to tell you anything but since it is addressed to you, I would suggest you may find your answers from the insurance company.
 

ErinGoBragh

Senior Member
if you have seen the bill, I would assume you know who the insurance company is. Call them and speak with them and ask them about it. They may not be able to tell you anything but since it is addressed to you, I would suggest you may find your answers from the insurance company.
As Justalayman said, attempt to contact the insurance company and see how it got into your sisters name. However, I suspect your father may have done a TOD (transfer on death) to your sister making her owner of the policy, which is well within his rights to do, and means that you have no rights to any information or to change anything, including beneficiary, on the policy.
 

momm2500

Member
Ownership

Contact the insurance company immediately. My dad did the same thing for us kids when we were born. When he passed away, I contacted the insurance company and changed ownership to me (let alone had to change last name too) and also changed my beneficiaries. This is your policy not hers! Why should she benefit from your death, you now have family to worry about and protect
 

ErinGoBragh

Senior Member
Contact the insurance company immediately. My dad did the same thing for us kids when we were born. When he passed away, I contacted the insurance company and changed ownership to me (let alone had to change last name too) and also changed my beneficiaries. This is your policy not hers! Why should she benefit from your death, you now have family to worry about and protect
Momm2500, you obviously don't know what you're talking about; please stop giving INACCURATE advice. I work in life insurance, and here are the facts:

This policy belongs to the policyowner, and if it was TOD to the sister, then the sister DOES have the right to the money! Why would she not? If dad wanted the policy ownership to go to the sister, and for the sister to be the beneficiary, and dad and sister are rightful owners and payors, then the sister has EVERY RIGHT to benefit from the death of a policy she has also paid on!

If it wasn't TOD to the sistser then the OP may have a right to it, but don't just assume!
 
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JustAPal00

Senior Member
Momm! You are incorrect! The owner of a policy does not have to be the insured or a parent! If the father made the sister the owner then it is her policy to do with as she choses! It has no affect on the OP or his life!
 

momm2500

Member
Momm2500, you obviously don't know what you're talking about; please stop giving INACCURATE advice. I work in life insurance, and here are the facts:

This policy belongs to the policyowner, and if it was TOD to the sister, then the sister DOES have the right to the money! Why would she not? If dad wanted the policy ownership to go to the sister, and for the sister to be the beneficiary, and dad and sister are rightful owners and payors, then the sister has EVERY RIGHT to benefit from the death of a policy she has also paid on!

If it wasn't TOD to the sistser then the OP may have a right to it, but don't just assume!

I am just advising from experience. I also work in the insurance field and did change ownership of my own life insurance policy. IF the policy is on the OP why can't he change it to himself as owner and take over the payments? As I indicated my father was owner of my policy, he paid all the premiums but after his death, I changed ownership to me and put my husband and kids as my beneficiaries. So why cant OP do this? Also we are all assuming that the policy was TOD! Also just because she is executor does not give her the right to ownership. OP needs to contact the insurance company as I indicated in my previous post!

also, when I purchased policies for both of my kids, I was listed as the owner because they were under the age of 1 when purchased. now that the kids are over 21, I transferred ownership to each child. So the best thing to do is talk to the Insurance Company! As everyone is assuming the policy had TOD noone is absolutely sure unless we all see the actual policy and read the fine print!
 
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ErinGoBragh

Senior Member
I am just advising from experience. I also work in the insurance field and did change ownership of my own life insurance policy. IF the policy is on the OP why can't he change it to himself as owner and take over the payments?
Because, he's the insured, NOT the owner. Being the insured has very little to do with ownership.

Say you borrow money from me, and I take out an insurance policy on your life as collateral. I'm paying the premiums on the policy. I have a vested interest in your life. Why should you then get to seize ownership and do what you want with the policy I've paid for when I now have a vested interest in you?

Similar in this case. Dad paid the premiums. It may have been dad's desire was Transfer on Death to the sister. Dad's policy, on his son, who he had a vested interest in. Dad CAN control who this policy goes to. Maybe it was TOD. Maybe it wasn't, and the bro can just send in dad's death cert and get the policy. But if Dad wanted to TOD to the sister, he could, and it's possible in this scenario. Dad paid the darn premiums! And if that's the case, no one can tells sis what to do with the policy on her bro.

As I indicated my father was owner of my policy, he paid all the premiums but after his death, I changed ownership to me and put my husband and kids as my beneficiaries. So why cant OP do this? Also we are all assuming that the policy was TOD! Also just because she is executor does not give her the right to ownership. OP needs to contact the insurance company as I indicated in my previous post!
I never ASSumed it was TOD. I mentioned it as a possibility, as it is. I have made suggestions of what to do in either case. You completely ruled out TOD in your answer.

In your scenario, which may NOT apply to this one, your father had no TOD on the policy, so you were able to claim ownership. We don't know whether or not there is TOD here, so we need to lean on the side of caution. If there is no TOD, yes, OP can change ownership to herself. It's been stated before in this thread.

I also never said as executor the sister had a right to ownership. She doesn't, unless she's the TOD owner, which seems likely since the beneficiary was changed after the death of the father.

The alternative is that this is a criminal matter because sister forged dad's name on the paperwork to get this changed. Whatever the case though, as far as ownership goes, he needs to contact the insurance co, make sure they know dad died, and see if they'll give him info and change ownership. Death certs help. But as said, if it's TOD, he's SOL.

also, when I purchased policies for both of my kids, I was listed as the owner because they were under the age of 1 when purchased. now that the kids are over 21, I transferred ownership to each child. So the best thing to do is talk to the Insurance Company! As everyone is assuming the policy had TOD noone is absolutely sure unless we all see the actual policy and read the fine print!
Again, I never assumed a thing. Reread my post. I never said it was one way or another.

It's all great and good you transferred ownership to your kids, but you can't take what happened in your case and just apply it to other people. You want to do that, go someplace else. As a volunteer here, I list the options as thoroughly as I can. At this point, until OP contacts the insurance company and comes back here, it's an unknown, but it's better that it be explained to OP what may be the case in this scenario. At this point, he's only has an inkling that the policy may still be in dad's name; he doesn't know what the case is, or who owns it, because he hasn't picked up the phone.

To go back to the original post, and add a detail I left out, bills (at least for my company) are in the name of the insured, not the actual owners/trustees/etc. This may not mean anything. He needs to call the insurance company and make sure dad was reported as being dead. This will indicate whether or not anything improper has been done, and if info is not disclosed to him, know he will know why.
 
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momm2500

Member
i am not going to argue with you but I did indicate this was my experience!!! and yes just like you indicated, I indicated to contact the insurance company as well! and apparently it is only us that are discussing the matter since the OP has not responded on anything we have talked about.
 
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GeorgeVA

Junior Member
Sorry for the hassle folks. No need for arguing.

Ok, Thanks for the replies.

I am the owner of the policy. My Father had asked my sister to take over payments because he knew I was not in a position to do so and would not be able to do so for quite some time... At the time of his death, I wasnt the most responsible person on the planet.
A year later, I found myself married and landed a nice job - putting me in a position to take care of my responsibilities..

When I asked her about it - and said I would like to take over payments and make my wife the beneficiary, she became outraged. "After all that money we put into it?"
She told me it couldnt be done. Ive asked to see the paper work and they can't seem to find anything. I believe she has also listed her children as bennies.

Isnt there a law against opening my mail? Changing my bennies?
and altering a 50G policy to 150 G? Her husband has told me they upped it.

Sorry if this is confusing. Im completely lost myself.

:(
 

ErinGoBragh

Senior Member
Sorry for the hassle folks. No need for arguing.

Ok, Thanks for the replies.

I am the owner of the policy. My Father had asked my sister to take over payments because he knew I was not in a position to do so and would not be able to do so for quite some time... At the time of his death, I wasnt the most responsible person on the planet.
A year later, I found myself married and landed a nice job - putting me in a position to take care of my responsibilities..

When I asked her about it - and said I would like to take over payments and make my wife the beneficiary, she became outraged. "After all that money we put into it?"
She told me it couldnt be done. Ive asked to see the paper work and they can't seem to find anything. I believe she has also listed her children as bennies.

Isnt there a law against opening my mail? Changing my bennies?
and altering a 50G policy to 150 G? Her husband has told me they upped it.

Sorry if this is confusing. Im completely lost myself.

:(
Wow. No wonder you're lost. This is nowhere NEAR what you originally posted.

Frankly, there are laws against opening the mail, and she shouldn'tve been able to change beneficiaries, but I can't blame her for being ticked off. Morally, I would say you should leave her as a bene to at least a portion of the policy. And I think that when you allowed and were aware of her making the policy payments, you gave up your right to complain about her opening up mail to the policy at the time. That's my moral advice.

I'm still not so sure you're the owner. What proof do you have that you?

Changing beneficiaries is one thing that's probably easy to forge, but upping a coverage is far more complicated. I'm inclined to believe that, once again, you are posting misinformation, and that you are not really sure of much surrounding this policy. If I'm wrong, my apologies, but I'm a little cautious because you neglected to mention any of the very relevant information you just posted in your first post.

Here's what you need to do:

1. Call the company. Verify your ownership.

2. Request from the company copy of forms changing benes, and ask how the coverage amount got increased. They may give it to you, they may not. If you can get the paperwork from it, and if you verify that your sister forged the paperwork, notify the company that she was pretending to be you to make changes to the policy. If your sister did NOT do anything wrong like forging sigs, don't tell them this because obviously it's not the case.

3. Request from the company a new form changing beneficiaries.

4. Pay your premium on time and be grateful that your sister was good enough to keep up the payments so your policy wouldn't lapse.
 

GeorgeVA

Junior Member
Just got off the horn w/ the company.

They were not even aware of my Father passing away in 2005.
My sister never informed them.
She had previously told me that he had it switched over to her in case of death. (TOD)
This is not the case.

When I talked to her about it, she changed the story again. " I can't be bene if im the owner of the policy so I just left it in his name" she said.

The company said in order to become owner of the policy, I need to fax them a simple request and a copy of the death certificate. I was then asked if I'd like to change the Bene now, over the phone. - So I did.
my sis told me she had every right to "up" the amount since she had been paying for it since jan 06.

I offered to pay her back what she put into it and then take over payments.
This still didn't sit right with her. She became a victim. Saying I didnt trust her.
She said she was only trying to help. I responded by saying I was looking out for my wife.

Maybe it IS a moral question. When it started, I was unemployed and not married.
A lot has changed since. I have a wife and a new child to think of. Thats all I was worried about.


Its not worth the fighting or the hassle.

I don't know what to do now. She holds the death certificates and once she finds out I changed the bene to my wife, who knows what will happen?

Should I just forget about it? and take out a new policy?
 
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GeorgeVA

Junior Member
Tried that route..but thanks.

He died in Costa Rica. Getting his remains back were a nightmare that never seemed to end. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to obtain a certified copy of the death certificate from a different country.
 

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