Can I appeal camera ticket?

[I_Got_Banned]

I should have answered these questions first but here you go anyway:

1. I was found guilty on 8/7, is it too late to do it?

You still have until September 6th to file your "Notice of Appeal"..

2. Is there a form I need to file to get the process start?

Form TR-155 "Notice of Appeal"

3. What does the process involve?

Form TR-150 does give you an outline of the entire appeals process.

4. What do I do during the appeal trial? Do I bring the same witness and evident?

No! Your witness has already testified. You do include a record of her testimony on form TR-160 "Proposed Statement of Appeal" which will later also appear on the "Settled Statement of Appeal". Also, you do not get to bring in "new evidence" during the appeals process... You can only use/refer to/mention evidence which you used/was brought against you in your trial.

5. What happen if I lost again? Can they double my fine?

Nope. I assume you already posted bail when your case was set for trial. If you lose your appeal, the Court keeps the money but they don't charge you anymore. If you are successful in your appeal and the appeals court reverses the courts decision, the you will get a refund. Last possibility is that the appeals court might reverse the judgment and order a new trial or resubmit the case back to the lower court for a re-trial.

To avoid this last possibility, you would request that the appeals court reverse the judgment rather than refer the case back.

 

[Amyca]

Thanks for the response, JIMinCA and I Got Banned. I am reading up on the book "Fight your ticket in California / by David W. Brown", it does provide a lot of information on appeal process. I didn't have to post bail when I went to the arraignment. I got a reduce fine when I was found guilty which I haven't pay yet. I had until 9/30 to pay the fine. Now that I am moving forward for my appeal, I do have more questions.

1. Where do I turn in the TR-155? Is it the same court house where my case was heard? Can I turn it in person? The reason I ask is that I plan to pay my fine tomorrow and want to submit the form at the same time if it is the same place unless it is not a good idea.

2. I Got Banned mention that I need to transcribe my recording. Does it mean I need to hire a professional transcirber to transcribe the whole tape for the court?

3. During the appeal trail, will the judge ask me who the driver was? I really don't want to tell the judge it was my sister who is driving.

4. According to the appeal procedure, beside filing the proposed statement to the trial court, I also need to serve a copy of my Proposed Statement to the district attorney or city attorney where the case was tried. However, during my trial, there is only the judge, myself and the officer. Does it mean I can skip this step?

I am sure I will have a lot of question as I continue the appeal process. Thanks for all the help in advance. I really don't think I will move forward withou you guys.

 

[JIMinCA]

Thanks for the response, JIMinCA and I Got Banned. I am reading up on the book "Fight your ticket in California / by David W. Brown", it does provide a lot of information on appeal process. I didn't have to post bail when I went to the arraignment. I got a reduce fine when I was found guilty which I haven't pay yet. I had until 9/30 to pay the fine. Now that I am moving forward for my appeal, I do have more questions.

1. Where do I turn in the TR-155? Is it the same court house where my case was heard? Can I turn it in person? The reason I ask is that I plan to pay my fine tomorrow and want to submit the form at the same time if it is the same place unless it is not a good idea.

you can turn it in at the courthouse.

2. I Got Banned mention that I need to transcribe my recording. Does it mean I need to hire a professional transcirber to transcribe the whole tape for the court?

You don't need a transcript. The proposed statement takes the place of the transcript. However, if you like, you can pay for one and use it.

3. During the appeal trail, will the judge ask me who the driver was? I really don't want to tell the judge it was my sister who is driving.

No. All you have to do is show that the judge did not have sufficient evidence to prove that you were driving.

4. According to the appeal procedure, beside filing the proposed statement to the trial court, I also need to serve a copy of my Proposed Statement to the district attorney or city attorney where the case was tried. However, during my trial, there is only the judge, myself and the officer. Does it mean I can skip this step?

NO!!!!! Do NOT skip any steps!!!!

I am sure I will have a lot of question as I continue the appeal process. Thanks for all the help in advance. I really don't think I will move forward withou you guys.

 

[Amyca]

I am a bit confuse on serving the district attorney. Although there is no district attorney or city attorney during my trial, I still need to serve a copy of the proposed satement on appeal to the district attorney? The district attorney office is just on the 2nd floor of the courtroom. That will be the district attonery I need to serve, is that correct? I guess in my trial the judge or the police officer is the prosecutor? Thanks.

 

[JIMinCA]

I am a bit confuse on serving the district attorney. Although there is no district attorney or city attorney during my trial, I still need to serve a copy of the proposed satement on appeal to the district attorney? The district attorney office is just on the 2nd floor of the courtroom. That will be the district attonery I need to serve, is that correct? I guess in my trial the judge or the police officer is the prosecutor? Thanks.

The judge is a member of the judicial branch. A prosecutor is an executive branch member. The cop was a witness only.

You did have a prosecutor... its just that in CA, they don't have to actually show up to court for infractions.

Find your DA's address here: Roster of District Attorneys

 

[I_Got_Banned]

1. Where do I turn in the TR-155? Is it the same court house where my case was heard? Can I turn it in person? The reason I ask is that I plan to pay my fine tomorrow and want to submit the form at the same time if it is the same place unless it is not a good idea.

You should make 3 copies of the entire document (including the Proof of Service form).
You will file the original with the court.
Have the Clerk stamp a copy with "Received" or "filed" for your records and you will have a friend mail the third copy to the D A (as per the instructions on the proof of service form)...

2. I Got Banned mention that I need to transcribe my recording. Does it mean I need to hire a professional transcirber to transcribe the whole tape for the court?

You don't need a transcript. The proposed statement takes the place of the transcript. However, if you like, you can pay for one and use it.

No need to have it "professionally" transcribed (at least not yet), however, you should transcribe it (yourself) as accurately as possible as part of your proposed statement.

Wouldn't you agree Jim?

 

[JIMinCA]

I do agree with the exception of the "transcribed" part. There is no reason to "transcribe", just tell the pertinent facts in the proposed statement. It will be up to the prosecution to challenge if he wants to add or delete.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I do agree with the exception of the "transcribed" part. There is no reason to "transcribe", just tell the pertinent facts in the proposed statement. It will be up to the prosecution to challenge if he wants to add or delete.

But since the prosecutor was not in the courtroom during the trial, an exact transcript of what was said by the Judge, officer, defendant & witness could not be disputed or changed... He/she can't change what actually transpired.

The way I see it, this case is appealable based on the fact that the Judge made his ruling prior to reviewing the evidence (the picture that the defendant entered into evidence) & prior to questioning the witness. So an accurate timeline as to what was said, by whom and at what point is the clearest most convincing way to establish that an error was made...

With that being said, (and as you can tell by my long winded posts) I have been accused of being too detail oriented more times than not!

 

[JIMinCA]

But since the prosecutor was not in the courtroom during the trial, an exact transcript of what was said by the Judge, officer, defendant & witness could not be disputed or changed... He/she can't change what actually transpired.

The way I see it, this case is appealable based on the fact that the Judge made his ruling prior to reviewing the evidence (the picture that the defendant entered into evidence) & prior to questioning the witness. So an accurate timeline as to what was said, by whom and at what point is the clearest most convincing way to establish that an error was made...

With that being said, (and as you can tell by my long winded posts) I have been accused of being too detail oriented more times than not!

I still agree with everything you are saying with exception of the "transcribed" part. My question is... why would you want to help the prosecution? If he wasn't there and has no basis to argue the proposed statement, why would you want to relieve him of that? He took on that risk when he chose not to show up. The appellant should argue his own points... not help argue for the the prosecution.

 

[Amyca]

Hi folks. Thanks for all the suggestion and advice. I spent the last weekend reading up on the appeal process and transcribing the trial's tape. I think I am 95% accurate on what's going on during the trial. It looks like I have a lot of paperwork to file and trial ahead of me. I sure need all the help I can get on each step along the way. For now, I am not sure how to filll out the proposed statement on appeal.
1. What do I put on Grounds for Appeal? Is it Verdict Not Supported by Evidence?
2. On Statement of Evidence, do I check box 2? If I do, does it mean I need to submit a reporter's transcript along with the form TR-160?
3. If I check box 3, do I give a summary of the officer, myself and the witness? Or do I need the exact word on what happen?
If it helps, I would like to post my transcirbe version of the trial to see if I have a case to go any further.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Amyca]

Hello, folks. As my 15 days is getting close to file my proposed statement, I am still at a lost of what to write. I have enclosed the transcript of my trial. Can someone tell me if I have a case for appeal? If I do, can someone please give me some guidance on what ground to use and how to fill out the paperwork?

Judge:
Ms. Smith, will you both please raise your right hand please.

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you god?

Officer and Ms. Smith:
I do.

Judge:
All right Officer uh Johnson, tell me your full name and spell your last name for the record please.

Officer:
David Johnson. Last name spelling J O H N S O N.

I’m the employee of the city of as a police office, currently assigned to the traffic section.

Judge:
And there is a ticket uh…charging Ms. Smith with running a red light. Is that a video ticket?

Officer:
It is a red light photo enforcement ticket. That is correct your honor.

Judge:
And when was that recorded?

Officer:
The date of violation was June 10th of this year.

Judge:
And uh…which camera recorded it?

Officer:
This violation was captured at the intersection of June Lane and May Avenue.

Judge:
And you have the video there?

Officer:
Yes your honor, I do.

Judge:
Ms Smith, have you had the chance to look at the video?

Ms. Smith:
Yes your honor.

Judge:
Okay, I need to see it.

Ms. Smith:
Um…

Judge:
Ms. Smith you can come over and you can watch it too.

Ms. Smith:
Oh, ok.

Officer:
The violation was in this lane of travel which was the number 3 eastbound lane of June Lane. At the start of the video, the light is yellow for eastbound traffic.

Judge:
Okay.

Officer:
Red.

Judge:
And that’s the car that’s supposed to be Ms. Smith’s car that’s going through.

Officer:
Correct.

Judge:
Does it take a picture of the driver?

Officer:
Yes it does.

Judge:
Can I see that please? Okay, the video be marked um…court exhibit 1 and this photograph is marked court exhibit 2.

And was the registration uh…checked around on the vehicle in question?

Officer:
Yes it was.

Judge:
And who does that come back registered to?

Officer:
The vehicle comes back registered to a 2001 Honda in the name of the defendant.

Judge:
Okay Ms Smith you have any questions you would like to ask Officer Johnson?

Ms. Smith:
Um…just a correction. Mine, on this thing, it says June 16th.

Officer:
Oh, I stand corrected your honor. It is June 16th, not June 10th. I misread it.

Judge:
All right. Do you have any questions you would like to ask the officer?

Ms. Smith:
Not at this point.

Judge:
All right, um…would you like to testify Ms. Smith?

Ms. Smith:
You know what … um … I do not wish to testify.

Judge:
All right, I find that the evident did proof that you ran a red light. It will be a fine in the amount of $100. And please have that pay on or before September 30th in the clerk’s office.

Ms. Smith:
But…

However, I do… I would like to plead not guilty identity.

Judge:
All right, I’ve looked at the photograph, I had the officer say that the 2001 car was registered to you upon that as sufficient purpose of identity. That was you in the car.

Ms. Smith:
Um, I actually…if your honor, the defense would like to submit for the courts consideration some snap shots of the defendants friends and family members as sort of a line up. Um to…ask the court to look at the defendant in the photo as well as listen to a witness testimony.

Judge:
Well…I stated…all right, who is the witness?

Witness:
I am.

Judge:
All right, come forward ma'am.

Would you raise your right hand?

Do you solemnly swear to testify about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you god?

Witness:
Yes.

Judge:
Tell me your full name please.

Witness:
Jane Pierce

Judge:
Jane Pierce?

What do you want to tell me Ms. Pierce?

Witness:
Um…actually that day…the June 16th, the defendant was at work.

Judge:
Were you driving the car?

Witness:
No. Because I was with her at work.

Judge:
Okay. Do you have any questions you want to ask?

Ms. Smith:
Um .. no.

Judge:
All right Ms. Smith, I have a question for you, were you driving that car in the photograph?

Ms. Smith:
I…I was um…I guess…I would like …. I would not like to testify.

Judge:
Okay, I find that this picture is you. You’re guilty in violation and will be a $100 fine. Have that paid on or before September 30th in the clerk’s office please.

Ms. Smith:
But.

Judge:
And the video and the photograph will be marked as indicated in court one and two and entered in evidence to the clerk, Officer Johnson, the photograph and the CD disk.

Officer:
I will have to produce a CD disk. This is downloaded on the hard drive of the laptop computer. I can provide the court with a digital file of the video.

Judge:
If you would please.

Ms. Smith:
Um…I…I mean…I am actually here to say is that I am not guilty. And I…

Judge:
(Inaudible) ……. way of the court trial. Just look at the tape and the car clearly ran through the red light.

Ms. Smith:
Right.

Judge:
There’s no question about that.

Ms. Smith:
Right.

Judge:
That photograph looks like you. And the car is registered to you.

Ms. Smith:
Mm hmm…

Judge:
So you’re the one that’s going to pay the ticket ma'am.

Ms. Smith:
Even though.

Judge:
I found that there’s similar, there is sufficient similarity of the photograph and what your face looks like here today, you’re the driver of the car.

Ms. Smith:
With …even with the witness?

Judge:
Even with the witness. So, that’s the ruling.

Ms. Smith:
Okay.

Ms. Smith:
Is this…

Judge:
Your court trial is over ma'am.

Ms. Smith:
It’s this um…I’m sorry…may I just understand um…the fine is $100?

Judge:
It is.

Ms. Smith:
And um…is this going be a strike on my record…

Judge:
There will be going a point on your driving record at the DMV.

Ms. Smith
Um…if I up for traffic school.

Judge:
You can’t at this point. I don’t allow it after the court trial. That’s a matter of judicial discretion.

Ms. Smith:
Okay. So even if I wasn’t the driver of the car.

Judge:
I find that you were the drive of the car.

Ms. Smith:
And I have proof that I am not.

Judge:
I find that it’s insufficient proof.

Ms. Smith:
Okay. I can’t be two places at once, right?

Judge:
Well it’s a matter of me weighing the evidence and I’ve made my weigh … I’ve made my finding so if you disagree with me you certainly have the right to appeal the matter.

Ms. Smith:
Okay. And you haven’t even looked at the line up that I got. As a…

Judge:
Alright I can consider that too. It will be marked as defendant exhibit … uh … A. It’s still my ruling. Next case.

Please help.

 

[JIMinCA]

I definitely hope you appeal this bonehead judge's decision. Here are some grounds:

1) You presented an undisputed alibi and showed evidence that many people's appearance is "sufficiently similar" to yours. Therefore, you certainly raised reasonable doubt. For example:

Judge:
I find that you were the drive of the car.

Ms. Smith:
And I have proof that I am not.

Judge:
I find that it’s insufficient proof.

It is not your burden to PROVE that you weren't the driver, it is the State's burden to PROVE that you were.

2) When the judge asked you directly if you were driving the car, she may have crossed the line. Judges are allowed to ask questions to clarify a statement, but they are NOT allowed to ask questions that are prosecutorial in nature.

3) In Wozniak (People v. Wozniak (1987) 197 Cal.App.3d Supp. 43 [243 Cal.Rptr. 686]) the court found:

both the present language of Vehicle Code section 42005 and People v. Enochs... require trial courts to consider the merits of a defendant's request for traffic violator school whether that request is made before or after conviction.

The judges statements here:

Ms. Smith
Um…if I up for traffic school.

Judge:
You can’t at this point. I don’t allow it after the court trial. That’s a matter of judicial discretion.

Clearly violates that premise.

I would certainly file an appeal on at least these three grounds.

 

[Zigner]

OP's gonna lose this appeal



1) The judge found beyond a reasonable doubt that she was, in fact, driving.
2) The OP didn't bring any EVIDENCE (ie: Time records, etc) that she was at work. Rather, she brought a witness that the judge (obviously) did not find credible.
3) The Judge IS allowed to ask questions such as were asked.
4) The Judge used his discretion in denying traffic school


OP - post back with the results

(Oh, and Jim - have at it...I won't even respond to your forthcoming inane responses...it's all yours big guy! )

 

[I_Got_Banned]

OP's gonna lose this appeal



1) The judge found beyond a reasonable doubt that she was, in fact, driving.

"Beyond a reasonable doubt"?
Why is it then that after he issued his verdict, he was still asking the defendant if she was driving? He even asked the witness if she herself was driving!!!

2) The OP didn't bring any EVIDENCE (ie: Time records, etc) that she was at work. Rather, she brought a witness that the judge (obviously) did not find credible.

Yes and no...
Yes to the part about the defendant's evidence being a bit lacking... And that she hesitated in her answers. I think she was afraid to say anything!
But why would the judge decide that her witness was not credible? If anything, the witness testimony is what should have created the reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt in the judge's mind!

4) The Judge used his discretion in denying traffic school

Granted, and he is allowed to use discretion in making that decision.

However, as soon as he stated "I do not allow it after trial" he opened up the door wide open for the defendant to appeal.

You should read the case that Jim cited... they do not make decisions any clearer...

Unfortuntely, the traffic school error alone will not gain the defendant a reversal. Otherwise, this would be an easy appeal... And an easier "WIN"!!!

 

[Zigner]

But why would the judge decide that her witness was not credible? If anything, the witness testimony is what should have created the reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt in the judge's mind!

And, it *obviously* did not. You weren't there, and neither was I. The JUDGE was in the room and got to make the decision as to the credibility of the witness. Had the judge found ANY credibility, he would not have ruled the way he did.