Possible consiquences

[JWilso8101]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
I joint custody of my 7 month old son, but am the non-custodial parent. The way our visitation schedule is set up I am allowed 3 visits per week for 2 hours each day until he is 1 yr old then it gradually goes up until standard visitation at 3. The mother of my child has been allowing me to have overnight visitations once a week with my son since he was about 3 months and it has been great. Now I wish I had fought for them to be in the court order for visitation since currently things have started to go sour between the two of us and she is continuing to threaten to take overnight visitations away and only follow what the papers say, and I guess technically she has that right. Here is the dilema, at the end of May I am on vacation and my father whom has never met my son and lives in TN is having open heart surgery in June and I really want my son to meet his grandfather God forbid something should happen. I have requested a couple times now for her permission to allow me to take our son with me for a couple of days to go and see my dad and come back. She is refusing cause she thinks it would be too much on me to travel with him at this young of an age, even though I basically do everything that she does too when I have him. I know that during that week she is going to allow me to have him overnight, but I want to take him with me to TN and stay for a couple of day, what can I do or what legally can she have done to me if I do take him? There is nothing in our papers saying that we need permission to leave the state, only the country. But it obviously would fall beyond the two hour visitation even thought she is granting me an overnight visit. Can I be arrested? Do you think a judge would see that I am doing this as a best interest for my son? Lastly, can I go back and have my visitation modified to be increased now that I see what we had originally agreed to is not enough and show the judge that all this time that my son and I have been allowed to spend together is great for us, but since the mother is mad at me she will take the extra time away and ultimitley will affect us? Also, I am the one that filed the original petition for the rights to visitation and be established as the father. So the courts, or at least the judge that heard our case, already look at me favorably for taking the initiative. Thank you and sorry for the long post. I hope it is not too confusing.

 

[MichaCA]

You could definitely be found in contempt of the court order if mom calls you on it. I would not go without getting written permission from the mother.

My personal, non legal opinion is also a judge won't be concerned with your child not meeting his granddad, as the child is a small baby...will not have a clue whats going on. Whats important is whats best for the child, and at this age, stability and security are the most important things. Unless mom agrees for you to take the baby, a judge will not consider this abrupt departure from the court order as being in the childs best interests.

 

[LdiJ]

You could definitely be found in contempt of the court order if mom calls you on it. I would not go without getting written permission from the mother.

My personal, non legal opinion is also a judge won't be concerned with your child not meeting his granddad, as the child is a small baby...will not have a clue whats going on. Whats important is whats best for the child, and at this age, stability and security are the most important things. Unless mom agrees for you to take the baby, a judge will not consider this abrupt departure from the court order as being in the childs best interests.

You could actually be arrested, not just found in contempt. Your official visitation is two hours, mom has been allowing you overnights and you are actually contemplating taking off, out of state, for several days, without mom's permission/agreement?

We are talking Amber Alert potential here. Do NOT do that.

 

[2Mistakes]

We are talking Amber Alert potential here. Do NOT do that.

It's highly unlikely that an AMBER Alert would be issued.

"AMBER Alerts are not intended for cases involving parental abduction, except in life threatening situations."

Sorry I can't post a link. I'm posting from my iPhone and don't know how to do that yet.

I'm not saying dad should take baby for any longer than CO says. That would be a stupid move.

I just didn't want someone reading this thread to think if the other parent doesn't bring the child back on time they might be able to get an AMBER Alert.

 

[wileybunch]

Here's TX Amber Alert guidelines:
ftp://ftp.txdps.state.tx.us/dem/amber/amber_alert_instructions.pdf

And, I also agree that would be an extremely stupid move to do that. Is it possible you can get a webcam set up on each end so your dad can "visit" with your child even as often as you have him?

 

[JWilso8101]

an amber alert seems pretty extreme considering she would know where I am and I would not try and hide anything if we were to go. my thoughts were to inform her and the courts of my intentions the day we leave, if I decide to go.
the web cam really would not be the same as saying having pictures of his actual visit with his grandpa. Should something happen to my dad he would at least have something show the two of them together. I know that he is too young to remember any of this, but he can still have something to show for it.
I am a very responsible father and like I said, we have had almost weekly overnight visits, so its not like he would not still be safe and secure in my presence out of state.

 

[MichaCA]

This is a legal advice forum and what you have gotten is solid legal advice. OK, we're clear there won't be an Amber alert but you very well could be arrested. Even if you weren't, enroute with baby, you would be in trouble with the judge.

I understand your wanting to have the two together before your dad passes, however it is just not reasonable. You can not "inform" the courts that you plan to step outside the court order. It is a legal document. When found in contempt you could face paying money charges, jail time, etc., as well as loss of visitation or any increased visitation any time soon.

I would try to let go of this one. Your child can grow up hearing stories about granddad, that may well be much stronger than a picture. The consequences far outweigh what the CHILD will get from this in the small and big picture.

 

[wileybunch]

an amber alert seems pretty extreme considering she would know where I am and I would not try and hide anything if we were to go. my thoughts were to inform her and the courts of my intentions the day we leave, if I decide to go.
the web cam really would not be the same as saying having pictures of his actual visit with his grandpa. Should something happen to my dad he would at least have something show the two of them together. I know that he is too young to remember any of this, but he can still have something to show for it.
I am a very responsible father and like I said, we have had almost weekly overnight visits, so its not like he would not still be safe and secure in my presence out of state.

We can't advise or suggest that you violate a court order. Which is what you will do if you take the child beyond the time provided in the court order without Mom's permission -- which you clearly do not have. If you were to do something so foolish, expect Mom to not only not allow anything beyond the 2-hour weekly visit again, but also an emergency order for you to have supervised visitation from now on.

THAT is why the webcam was suggested. That violates no court orders.

If it's so important to you to have more time, go back to court and get an order for it.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Out of the box thinking here. Mom is AFRAID to have child leave for extended period. Would mom be willing to go for a long weekend to Tennessee? Pay for a separate hotel room for mom, etc.

 

[JWilso8101]

I appreciate all of the advise, I wanted it so I could weight my options and hear what the long tern and short term effects would be. now is it unheard of to the modify my visitation so I can have him for longer periods of time? as I stated, she has been allowing me to have the overnight visits but when she gets angry if we do not agree on something, her only defense is to say that she will stop allowing them if unless I do as she says. sorry but to me that is putting the relationship between my son and I in the middle and I want to take that option away from her. or I can bite my lip and suck things up til he is 3, but I don't think that is the best route althought the least expensive.

 

[JWilso8101]

she actually has an aunt that live 30 mins from my dad and a couple of months ago when we were getting along we actually tried and talked of cordinating a trip to see them both. now since we are not getting along she backed out of wanting to do so even if we traveled seperatly.

 

[EarthMother01]

Rather than assert that because Mom has allowed you MORE time than the order allowes, that you are entitled to it, be grateful that she does allow you more time than the order states.

She is not required to allow you extra time. She is not required to accomidate you any farther than what the order states. If you are trying to control and dictate to Mom when and how YOU want things, she is within her rights to no longer offer you that additional time.

YOU cannot control Mom. Attempting to do so...

I want to take that option away from her

is going to come back and bite you in the back side...

 

[JWilso8101]

Rather than assert that because Mom has allowed you MORE time than the order allowes, that you are entitled to it, be grateful that she does allow you more time than the order states.

She is not required to allow you extra time. She is not required to accomidate you any farther than what the order states. If you are trying to control and dictate to Mom when and how YOU want things, she is within her rights to no longer offer you that additional time.

YOU cannot control Mom. Attempting to do so... is going to come back and bite you in the back side...

My intentions are to spend as much time as I possibly can with my son and not having her hold our relationship over my head if I don't agree with her 100% of the time. I am in no way trying to control her, she can do whatever she want as long as it does not affect the relationship or bonding time between my son and I. I do appreciate that she is allowing me to have extended visits, but is she doing it so she can have control? or cause she cares? Taking that option away from her only is to only prevent her from putting our son in the middle of things.

 

[MichaCA]

IMO, it doesn't really matter why mom giving you extended time, or taking it away. Its because your dealing with custody matters in court, the court order takes precedence over the parents desires for a more wholesome way of doing things...if you and mom could have done this, there would have been no need to take things to court in the first place.

The good thing about a court order is it does protect your custodial time with child AS LONG AS YOU DON'T VIOLATE IT. If you think you need, deserve more time with your baby now, go talk to a local attorney who can tell you what your chances are in filing a motion for more time. It won't happen today, or do anything about your trip. But thats what you need to do.

And just for your information, even when you get joint legal custody, you STILL cannot dictate what will happen if its outside of the court order. There will always be a set visitation schedule you must abide by. You and mom will need to confer and attempt to agree on the bigger decisions such as preschool, school placement, significant health decisions, counseling for child, extracurricular activities later on, stuff like that. If you and she do not agree on something and ONE of you puts their foot down, its back to court to get the judge's ruling on it.

The point is, is power plays can still be part of the deal, even with the court order. You just have to learn to deal with that for the long haul. Your best bet is to talk to a local attorney about your options for now, tell him/her you feel 3 years old is too long to wait to expand the visitation schedule, and keep on good terms with mom so that hopefully she will feel inclined to cooperate with you around extended time outside of the court order as well.

 

[LdiJ]

I don't agree with the others that an Amber Alert won't get issued...it might not, but boy mom could spin things to the police so that it could happen.

Dad has a two hour visitation by court order and takes off out of state with the child? I honestly don't think that anyone here can state that an Amber Alert wouldn't get issued...with any certainty.

The police will not know that mom has been letting dad have the child overnight. The police will only know that dad has a two hour visitation and ran out of state with the child...and infant to boot.

I think that dad's risk is far greater than just contempt of court...at least in the short term.

The best case scenario is that dad doesn't get arrested but ends up with supervised visitation. The worst case scenario is that dad gets arrested and jailed and ends up with supervised visitation...for perhaps a very long time.

If dad really wants to take the child to visit his father, then he needs to file a motion in court to allow him to do that...or find a way to get mom to agree.