Is this ethical

[AffyMom46]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

2 days I sent an email from my office to my boyfriends ex because she has been harrassing me terribly. Yesterday she came to my house an attacked me I have filed charges on her. But today my boss ( not me ) received a phone call from someone claiming they were this womans attorney he pretty much tried to get me fired today, they also faxed the email to my boss as well . When they faxed this email they never sent a cover letter with the law firms name or number or anything. So my question is if this was truly a legitamate attorney is it legal and ethical to contact my boss and speak to him about a domestic issue or would this attorney have to notify me via letter or would he have to talk to me and not my boss. I have a feeling it was the ex pretending to be an attorney this is why I need to know if it is legal or ethical for an attorney to call my boss and not me and discuss something like that without my knowledge. PLEASE HElp !!

 

[Country Living]

Most companies frown upon unauthorized use of company resources (in your case - personal use of company email). All the other information is extraneous as far as your employment goes. This is what happens when you throw a tantrum at work and mix your personal problems in with your work environment.

While you're trying to find some way to punish your boyfriend's ex-girlfriend, you may wind up being the one... punished.

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

2 days I sent an email from my office to my boyfriends ex because she has been harrassing me terribly. Yesterday she came to my house an attacked me I have filed charges on her. But today my boss ( not me ) received a phone call from someone claiming they were this womans attorney he pretty much tried to get me fired today, they also faxed the email to my boss as well . When they faxed this email they never sent a cover letter with the law firms name or number or anything. So my question is if this was truly a legitamate attorney is it legal and ethical to contact my boss and speak to him about a domestic issue or would this attorney have to notify me via letter or would he have to talk to me and not my boss. I have a feeling it was the ex pretending to be an attorney this is why I need to know if it is legal or ethical for an attorney to call my boss and not me and discuss something like that without my knowledge. PLEASE HElp !!

You opened Pandora's Box by sending that email from your office. She is only returning the favor. Insofar as this email back to your boss, she has not broken any laws.

If you don't want to get burned, don't put your hand on the stove without using an oven mit. (he he he...this is too funny....me using a cooking analogy... I don't even freakin cook).

 

[AffyMom46]

First of all were did you get I threw a Tantrum that did not even happen, next I said I think it was her that called my boss but I am not sure I said someone pretending to be an attorney called my bossed and tried to get me fired over this email being sent from work. That is why I asked is it legal for an attorney to call an employer because if it is not then I am sure it was the ex- calling. and the comment why am I trying to be mean to the ex again I must have not wrote it correctly the ex is the one that has been harrassing me she came to my house yesterday an attacked me, so how am I being the mean one. Sorry if I did not write it where it was understandable. Just trying to find out the laws is all.

 

[Proserpina]

First of all were did you get I threw a Tantrum that did not even happen, next I said I think it was her that called my boss but I am not sure I said someone pretending to be an attorney called my bossed and tried to get me fired over this email being sent from work. That is why I asked is it legal for an attorney to call an employer because if it is not then I am sure it was the ex- calling. and the comment why am I trying to be mean to the ex again I must have not wrote it correctly the ex is the one that has been harrassing me she came to my house yesterday an attacked me, so how am I being the mean one. Sorry if I did not write it where it was understandable. Just trying to find out the laws is all.

The problem is you can't - at the moment - prove anything.

 

[AffyMom46]

why cant anyone answer the question ! I know I cant prove anything the question is ' IS IT LEGAL FOR AN ATTORNEY TO CALL AN EMPLOYER AN SPEAK TO THEM WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE " thats all I am trying to find out I know I should not have sent the email from work I know that. Im just trying to find out if its a normal and legal thing for an attorney to call an employer ?????????????????? I should have never written the other stuff then I would not be getting all this other stuff but I figured I would give you background on why I am asking the question. PLEASE PLEASE can someone just give me an answer to the question .

 

[Antigone*]

why cant anyone answer the question ! I know I cant prove anything the question is ' IS IT LEGAL FOR AN ATTORNEY TO CALL AN EMPLOYER AN SPEAK TO THEM WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE " thats all I am trying to find out I know I should not have sent the email from work I know that. Im just trying to find out if its a normal and legal thing for an attorney to call an employer ?????????????????? I should have never written the other stuff then I would not be getting all this other stuff but I figured I would give you background on why I am asking the question. PLEASE PLEASE can someone just give me an answer to the question .

whoooppp...now she is throwing a trantrum

The answer to your question is YES, Pandora there is a Santa Claus

 

[Proserpina]

why cant anyone answer the question ! I know I cant prove anything the question is ' IS IT LEGAL FOR AN ATTORNEY TO CALL AN EMPLOYER AN SPEAK TO THEM WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE " thats all I am trying to find out I know I should not have sent the email from work I know that. Im just trying to find out if its a normal and legal thing for an attorney to call an employer ?????????????????? I should have never written the other stuff then I would not be getting all this other stuff but I figured I would give you background on why I am asking the question. PLEASE PLEASE can someone just give me an answer to the question .

(yes)

You could always ask for the attorney's state bar number...

 

[Ohiogal]

why cant anyone answer the question ! I know I cant prove anything the question is ' IS IT LEGAL FOR AN ATTORNEY TO CALL AN EMPLOYER AN SPEAK TO THEM WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE " thats all I am trying to find out I know I should not have sent the email from work I know that. Im just trying to find out if its a normal and legal thing for an attorney to call an employer ?????????????????? I should have never written the other stuff then I would not be getting all this other stuff but I figured I would give you background on why I am asking the question. PLEASE PLEASE can someone just give me an answer to the question .

yes it is legal for an attorney call an employer of someone involved in a case or even someone NOT involved a case. It is legal for an attorney to call people and try to investigate situations.

 

[quincy]

I disagree, in part, with Ohiogal's statement and I think Dogmatique's suggestion is a good one.

The New Jersey Rules of Professional Conduct limit the communications an attorney may have with and about an adversary party. Whether the communication by the "attorney" to AffyMom's employer was ethical or not depends on what exactly was communicated to the employer.

Any substantive communication by the attorney (communication that involves more than supplying merely factual information regarding the matter in question) requires certain disclosures by the attorney. The attorney should identify himself, his employer, his client, and the nature of and parties to any pending action and its adversarial character. The attorney should also determine whether the adversarial party (AffyMom) is represented by counsel prior to any substantive communication.

So, while potentially a legal communication, it may not have been an ethical communication - again, depending on what exactly was communicated in the phone call and in the fax.

 

[Ohiogal]

I disagree, in part, with Ohiogal's statement and I think Dogmatique's suggestion is a good one.

The New Jersey Rules of Professional Conduct limit the communications an attorney may have with and about an adversary party. Whether the communication by the "attorney" to AffyMom's employer was ethical or not depends on what exactly was communicated to the employer.

Any substantive communication by the attorney (communication that involves more than supplying merely factual information regarding the matter in question) requires certain disclosures by the attorney. The attorney should identify himself, his employer, his client, and the nature of and parties to any pending action and its adversarial character. The attorney should also determine whether the adversarial party (AffyMom) is represented by counsel prior to any substantive communication.

So, while potentially a legal communication, it may not have been an ethical communication - again, depending on what exactly was communicated in the phone call and in the fax.

HER opponent's attorney does NOT need HER permission to talk to anyone. It is ethical for an attorney to conduct and investigation and talk to various people including her employer. Whether SHE is represented does NOT impact a conversation with HER employer.

 

[quincy]

It may be LEGAL But, based on the Rules of Professional Conduct, it may not be ETHICAL (depending on what the phone call and fax communicated). Read the Rules, Ohiogal.

 

[Ohiogal]

It may be LEGAL But, based on the Rules of Professional Conduct, it may not be ETHICAL (depending on what the phone call and fax communicated). Read the Rules, Ohiogal.

She hasn't said anything about what it stated. It is ethical for communication to happen. It is not unethical for an attorney to talk to anyone. Now what is stated could be but we have no clue what that was. And neither does she.

 

[quincy]

AffyMom stated that the fax did not have any information about the attorney on a cover letter. The phone call to AffyMom's employer did not sufficiently identify the attorney who called if, as AffyMom stated, there was some question as to whether it was, in fact, an attorney who called.

These can lead one to assume (and, yes, I know all about assumptions ) that the attorney did not follow the "script" for attorneys as outlined in In re Prudential Insurance Co of America Sales Practices Litigation, 911 F.Supp. 148, 152 (D.N.J.), and as is incorporated for use by attorneys by an Order of the New Jersey Supreme Court in 1996, when the Rules for Professional Conduct were amended.

This script ensures that an attorney will identify himself, his employer, his client, the nature of and parties to a pending action and its adversarial nature. An attorney must clarify his role prior to engaging in any substantive ex parte communications.

You can check out the "Report of Special Committee on RPC 4.2," 139 N.J.L.J. 1161 (1995) and how the recommendations were incorporated. There is a body of New Jersey case law that has developed on RPC 4.2 and 4.3 and 1.13, as well.

Again, however, and as I said in my posts, it all depends on WHAT was communicated via fax and phone to the employer. The attorney may have violated the New Jersey Rules of Professional Conduct, as it IS unethical for attorneys under certain circumstances to communicate with others.

Legal communications are different than ethical communications. I have no argument with you there.

 

[tranquility]

I believe the communications envisioned (aka "ex parte") are with or involve represented parties without their lawyer present. The main issue often gets to if a "party" is represented and the question devolves to employees of a corporation who is represented.

I don't believe the ethical rule is applicable here.

Info edit: For a fairly substantive discussion on the rule, see: http://www.dechert.com/library/Talking to Your Adversary MSquire 6-02.pdf

N.J. R. P.C. 4.2

In dealing on behalf of a client with a person who is not
represented by counsel, a lawyer shall not state or imply that the
lawyer is disinterested. When the lawyer knows or reasonably
should know that the unrepresented person misunderstands the
lawyer’s role in the matter, the lawyer shall make reasonable
efforts to correct the misunderstanding. If the person is a
director, officer, employee, member, shareholder or other
constituent of an organization concerned with the subject of the
lawyer’s representation but not a person defined by RPC 1.13(a),
the lawyer shall also ascertain by reasonable diligence whether
the person is actually represented by the organization’s attorney
pursuant to RPC 1.13(e) or who has a right to such
representation on request, and, if the person is not so represented
or entitled to representation, the lawyer shall make known to theTaking to Your Adversary in New Jersey and Pennsylvania Litigation
Dechert Page 3
person that insofar as the lawyer understands, the person is not
being represented by the organization’s attorney.