Child Abuse?

[meghamann]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Wisconsin

Let me know if I am wrong in starting a new thread about child abuse as I have seen quite a few threads lately I thought I was not supposed to add to theirs.

My two oldest children told me last night about an incident that occurred last week. While at a parade the oldest depantsed his younger brother. His dad's girlfriend told him to sit by her, he said no, his dad asked what was going on, his girlfriend told him my son was talking **** to her again. His dad said he was to go in his room when getting home. So he went in his room when his younger brothers came and started playing with him. His dad came in sent the two younger ones out and was yelling at him. My son mouthed back to him, brought up his dad abusing a child he relinquished custody to, told him his uncles could beat him up after his dad kept egging him on to punch him. During the argument which my son says lasted about an hour his dad threw him on the bed twice and at one point picked him up by the throat with his hand and had him pinned against the wall and was telling him to hit him over and over. The argument ended and when his dad walked out of the room my younger son was sitting there listening. His dad picked him up by the waist, threw him on his bed and backhanded him. My son said it hurt but not a lot and that he only cried to the extent of his eyes becoming full of tears.

Now I didn't see them until two days after this and didnt notice any marks or anything. My oldest said his neck was red and he was grounded to his room the rest of the weekend and my younger son said his face was red.

My kids asked me not to call the police and I am wondering if I should. I figured I couldnt because there are no marks. My oldest son emailed the GAL the events that ocurred along with other problems he has been having at his father's home. Now I did not ask him to do this because I am sure I will hear it from someone on here that I did. The GAL said they could email her whenever they wanted to make her aware of their concerns. I did call social services. Is there anything else I should do? My kids are scared of me talking to their dad because they get in trouble everytime they tell me something.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Isis1]

get off the computer, go file a police report with your children present. then take the children to see a doctor for a same day appointment. then speak to a school counselor.

 

[meghamann]

Even though I am not the CP? The father is the CP and I have placement every other weekend from F-M and every Wednesday from 3-830. I only have one child with me right now because he has been puking and the other one I have already dropped off at school.

 

[Isis1]

Even though I am not the CP? The father is the CP and I have placement every other weekend from F-M and every Wednesday from 3-830. I only have one child with me right now because he has been puking and the other one I have already dropped off at school.

are you serious? why are you still on the computer?

 

[Ohiogal]

Wait a minute. What proof do you have of ANY of this? You have a mouthy child who depantsed his brother (by the way you better cut that activity now unless you want your child to end up as a registered sex offender), mouths off to his father and his father's girlfriend, who has no marks and yet you believe every thing out of his mouth?

By your own words, your son instigated and antagonized his father, accused him of abusing another child, threatened his father, and committed a crime against his brother. Would you like to reread what you wrote? His father backhanded him and yelled at him. He didn't even backhand him hard enough to make the child cry let alone bruise. There is no proof that the child was picked up by the throat or otherwise harmed. Let's go through it line by pretty much line of your child's transgressions according to you:

While at a parade the oldest depantsed his younger brother.

The above is a sex offense. If prosecuted and found guilty depending on the age of your child he could be forced to register as a sexual offender. SERIOUSLY.

His dad's girlfriend told him to sit by her, he said no, his dad asked what was going on, his girlfriend told him my son was talking **** to her again.

The above he is mouthing off to an adult who is a position of authority -- which could be considered crudely as talking crap to the girlfriend.

His dad said he was to go in his room when getting home. So he went in his room when his younger brothers came and started playing with him. His dad came in sent the two younger ones out and was yelling at him.

Dad's allowed to yell.

My son mouthed back to him,

How dare your son mouth off at his father. You don't teach child to respect his father do you?

brought up his dad abusing a child he relinquished custody to,

HOW DARE your son do such a thing. Why would your child believe that he could do that? Did you ground your child for his behavior?

told him his uncles could beat him up after his dad kept egging him on to punch him.

That could be taken as a threat.

During the argument which my son says lasted about an hour his dad threw him on the bed twice and at one point picked him up by the throat with his hand and had him pinned against the wall and was telling him to hit him over and over.

Really? Your son said that it lasted an hour? Did you talk to dad about any of this? Or are you taking your sexual deviant child's word for it?

The argument ended and when his dad walked out of the room my younger son was sitting there listening. His dad picked him up by the waist, threw him on his bed and backhanded him.

Dad is allowed to slap his impertinent son for being a spoiled brat.

My son said it hurt but not a lot and that he only cried to the extent of his eyes becoming full of tears.

So it didn't really hurt and he didn't bruise.

Now I didn't see them until two days after this and didnt notice any marks or anything. My oldest said his neck was red and he was grounded to his room the rest of the weekend and my younger son said his face was red.

His face could get red from screaming, hollering and carrying on for an hour against his father.

My kids asked me not to call the police and I am wondering if I should. I figured I couldnt because there are no marks.

My vote is no. My vote is you talk to dad and then if the child's story checks out that he depantsed his brother (committed a sexual offense against his brother), threatened his father, was disrespectful towards his father and his father's girlfriend, then you ground him.

My oldest son emailed the GAL the events that ocurred along with other problems he has been having at his father's home. Now I did not ask him to do this because I am sure I will hear it from someone on here that I did. The GAL said they could email her whenever they wanted to make her aware of their concerns.

Really? So your oldest believes dad is to blame for his misbehavior and criminal activity. I get it now.

I did call social services. Is there anything else I should do? My kids are scared of me talking to their dad because they get in trouble everytime they tell me something.

Your child should get in trouble for this stupidity.

And if dad is such an abusive father, how did he get primary custody?

 

[meghamann]

Honestly I don't know how he got custody. The bureau believed everything out of his mouth and never investigated any allegations. He has been substaniated with child abuse on another child of his and has slapped our younger son twice before this last incident where he called social services on himself and nothing was done.

I scolded my son for depantsing his brother and made him apologize to him for what he did. I feel that when things go on at his dad's house I shouldn't be grounding him especially when it is after the fact. That should be done by his father. I don't think him picking him up by his throat, throwing him on his bed, or slapping our sons is the way to go. Their father has an anger problem, he has a history of domestic violence, and these incidences do not suprise me.

Do I believe my children? Yes I do. My children have always been too scared to say anything that their dad says or does to them. The last couple months they have finally been telling me EVERYTHING that is said and goes on there. I feel they are finally seeing that what their dad says and does is wrong and they realize that their dad doesn't do anything for them unless it benefits himself.

I teach my children to be very respectful and they are always at my house. When they come over and tell me the things that go on and how their behavior has been I am very suprised. I do tell them they shouldn't be talking like that to an adult or anyone. I have sat down with my son and asked him what is wrong and why is he acting like that and he tells me its because his dad lets his girlfriend do the parenting and she is constantly yelling at them. The girl went as far as to dump out all of their dresser drawers because they didn't fold them right, she talks crap about me all the time to them and they tell her not to talk about me, they have heard her tell their dad she can't take them anymore, etc. They live with her mother and father and they talk crap about me to them too and their dad just lets it happen. Apparently our sons have talked to their dad about it and he either doesn't believe them or sides with his girlfriend. I'm not going to lie I used to bad mouth them past tense, but I have not for awhile now to teach them that it shouldnt be done and when they say things about their father, his girlfriend, or they tell me what they say about me I tell them they shouldn't be talking like that and then ask them how they feel when they talk about me or things like that.

I can't parent at both households and I find it very hard for the kids to take orders from 4 different people at their dad's house. They have a lot of resentment towards their dad and that is something I can't change, he has to do that and he doesn't at all.

I did however call the police and they came over and took my report and a detective is going to investigate. I think that no matter what is said their father has no right to lay a hand on them. They are 13 and 11. For their father to get in his face and beg him to hit him? How mature is that? Like I said he has a history of violence and comes from a family of violence, I do not want my son to grow up like that.

 

[Ohiogal]

Honestly I don't know how he got custody.

Get out your custody papers. Look at findings of facts. What does it state there?

The bureau believed everything out of his mouth and never investigated any allegations. He has been substaniated with child abuse on another child of his and has slapped our younger son twice before this last incident where he called social services on himself and nothing was done.

The bureau? The bureau doesn't decide custody. Dad called social services on himself?

I scolded my son for depantsing his brother and made him apologize to him for what he did.

You scolded him for committing a sex offense against his brother and made the sexual offender apologize? That is all you did? Have you called a counselor and tried to get this boy counseling? Or are you chalking it up to boys will be boys and that this is normal behavior?

I feel that when things go on at his dad's house I shouldn't be grounding him especially when it is after the fact.

Really? You should ground him before the fact? Right?

That should be done by his father.

They attempted to do so and your child got an attitude -- he mouthed off to the girlfriend, he threatened his dad, he was disrespectful and pathetic.

I don't think him picking him up by his throat, throwing him on his bed, or slapping our sons is the way to go. Their father has an anger problem, he has a history of domestic violence, and these incidences do not suprise me.

So you are not surprised by what your out of control child tells you because you expect it. so it could all be lies but you can excuse your child's behavior and chalk it up to him being a child. Dad's behavior is expected and may not have been the truth but heck you will go with it and NOT talk to dad about what happened because your son said it was true and therefore it is? I get it now.

Do I believe my children? Yes I do. My children have always been too scared to say anything that their dad says or does to them. The last couple months they have finally been telling me EVERYTHING that is said and goes on there. I feel they are finally seeing that what their dad says and does is wrong and they realize that their dad doesn't do anything for them unless it benefits himself.

And you don't play into that attitude at all? Careful now.

I teach my children to be very respectful and they are always at my house. When they come over and tell me the things that go on and how their behavior has been I am very suprised.

Really?

I do tell them they shouldn't be talking like that to an adult or anyone. I have sat down with my son and asked him what is wrong and why is he acting like that and he tells me its because his dad lets his girlfriend do the parenting and she is constantly yelling at them.

Well then that excuses their disrespectful criminal activity. Got it. Girlfriend should NEVER yell at your children even when they break the law.

The girl went as far as to dump out all of their dresser drawers because they didn't fold them right,

yeah. Okay. And the children shouldn't have to take care of their clothes and fold them.

she talks crap about me all the time to them and they tell her not to talk about me, they have heard her tell their dad she can't take them anymore, etc. They live with her mother and father and they talk crap about me to them too and their dad just lets it happen.

Really? What type of crap?

Apparently our sons have talked to their dad about it and he either doesn't believe them or sides with his girlfriend. I'm not going to lie I used to bad mouth them past tense, but I have not for awhile now to teach them that it shouldnt be done and when they say things about their father, his girlfriend, or they tell me what they say about me I tell them they shouldn't be talking like that and then ask them how they feel when they talk about me or things like that.

You quit badmouthing them and think everything is rosy. How long is awhile? You don't see how you are part of the problem with your sons at all.

I can't parent at both households and I find it very hard for the kids to take orders from 4 different people at their dad's house. They have a lot of resentment towards their dad and that is something I can't change, he has to do that and he doesn't at all.

How do you expect them to take orders at school from teachers, cafeteria workers, hallroom monitors, the principal? Life is going to be really hard for your boys. And yes you could change your boys' resentment and actions. You choose not to. This is revenge against dad and you feel that it is all up to him and if he fails you can be cheering on the sidelines. Nice.

I did however call the police and they came over and took my report and a detective is going to investigate. I think that no matter what is said their father has no right to lay a hand on them.

Wrong. he does.

They are 13 and 11. For their father to get in his face and beg him to hit him? How mature is that? Like I said he has a history of violence and comes from a family of violence, I do not want my son to grow up like that.

Really? What kind of history does your 13 have? So far he has a history of insubordination, sex crimes and violence as well. Nice kid you are raising there. So the thirteen year old gets a pass for all his behavior and dad is not allowed it to correct it at all because mom will jump in there but mom will not participate in correcting it because that should be all on dad. I got it. Congrats mom. Your children are going to learn lessons from this. When they end up in jail, you can congratulate yourself on contributing to their criminal ways.

 

[meghamann]

My son has never been in trouble until living with father. When he depansted his brother it was pants only and not underwear just so that is clear.

How do you expect our son to be respectful to his father when his father acts so juvenile and instigates arguments? Asks our son to hit him? Cusses and swears at him? Instead of talking to him he yells, places blame, and hits. Perhaps he is respectful at my home because I send him to his room immediately, wait a few minutes and then go and sit down to talk with about what just happened if there is ever an incident.

I don't chalk anything up to him being a child. I make him take responsibility for the things that happened at my house. I am saying when a week passes and I find out that something happened like him being disrespectful to his father, why should I discipline a week after it has happened? Something besides being hit should have already been done as far as disciplining goes.

What crap does the girlfriend talk? Hmm the whole family calls me a bitch to them along with other deragatory words says I shouldn't be buying anything for my kids, I shouldn't be allowed at dr appointments, I shouldnt be allowed at their school, they are told I buy their love, if they get a hang up phone call or there was an incident the house was paint balled the kids were told I did it, I can go on and on.

And you honestly think yelling achieves something? Yelling shouldn't be done at all. How does the girlfriend expect to get respect from the kids if she is constantly yelling at them all the time? Talking would be nice.

Are you serious about her dumping out the clothes? Because they didnt fold it the way SHE wanted it done it is okay for her to do that? If she wants them to do it then she shouldnt care how it is done as long as it gets done. Having clothes folded a certain way is petty, my kids put their clothes away and I am a neat freak but I dont fret and go and dump their drawers out til its done perfectly. Is this the military?

I have tried talking to their father. He either immediately starts cussing and swearing at me or he hangs up on me. Yesterday I called him to let him know I kept our son home from school because he was throwing up all morning. He started telling me that I should have fu**ing dropped him off at fu**ing home. When I tried explaining to him that I was going to take care of him since he was puking he had already hung up. I have done more than try to communicate with him. I have called and left messages, I have written letters and mailed them, I even tried asking him things yesterday when he picked our sick son up and he IGNORED me.

I am done writing though. I will just hit my kids if they mouth back to me because apparently it is ok as long as there isn't a mark left for more than a day and a half.

 

[wileybunch]

I don't agree with "double jeopardy", either, generally speaking so if something happens at dad's, dad disciplines, end of story. Unless it's something that warrants grounding, loss of cell phone, etc. that should be carried out at both homes to be effective.

As for this:

Do I believe my children? Yes I do. My children have always been too scared to say anything that their dad says or does to them. The last couple months they have finally been telling me EVERYTHING that is said and goes on there. I feel they are finally seeing that what their dad says and does is wrong and they realize that their dad doesn't do anything for them unless it benefits himself.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around kids being so scared of their dad but mouthing off pretty persistently to Dad? Those 2 things just don't go together in my mind.

As for bruises or what ... I don't think you'll always necessarily see bruises on the face given the bony nature of it. I think there are many places about the head a child could be slapped and 1-2 days later see no evidence of it.

How old is the child that was in the altercation with dad? How old is the pantsed child?

 

[meanyjack]

My son has never been in trouble until living with father. When he depansted his brother it was pants only and not underwear just so that is clear.

Really?!?!

Keep that defense in mind when he does this to a girl and he's being prosecuted for a sexual offense as a minor and has to register -- as a juvenile! "But Judge, he only depants her down to her undergarments. None of her privates were shown."

 

[Ohiogal]

My son has never been in trouble until living with father. When he depansted his brother it was pants only and not underwear just so that is clear.

Just so you are clear -- that is still considered a sexually oriented crime.

How do you expect our son to be respectful to his father when his father acts so juvenile and instigates arguments? Asks our son to hit him? Cusses and swears at him? Instead of talking to him he yells, places blame, and hits. Perhaps he is respectful at my home because I send him to his room immediately, wait a few minutes and then go and sit down to talk with about what just happened if there is ever an incident.

Your son has issues. Face those issues. He is a disrespectful child. He is also on his way to being a criminal -- actually if his brother wanted to make a fuss he would ALREADY be facing criminal sexual charges. Do you understand? This is NOT a joke. You want to put the blame on dad. Look at your child. I agree with Wiley -- your children are terrifed of dad yet they act disrespectfully, mouth off to him and commit crimes. Yeah, I see the fear.

I don't chalk anything up to him being a child. I make him take responsibility for the things that happened at my house. I am saying when a week passes and I find out that something happened like him being disrespectful to his father, why should I discipline a week after it has happened? Something besides being hit should have already been done as far as disciplining goes.

Hitting can be considered discipline.

What crap does the girlfriend talk? Hmm the whole family calls me a bitch to them along

They are entitled to that opinion. I can see why they would consider you so. How do you know they say this?

with other deragatory words

Really?

says I shouldn't be buying anything for my kids, I shouldn't be allowed at dr appointments, I shouldnt be allowed at their school,

They are allowed that opinion.

they are told I buy their love, if they get a hang up phone call or there was an incident the house was paint balled the kids were told I did it, I can go on and on.

Have you ever harrassed them? You admit you haven't been an angel. So what have you done to them? What have you done since you decided not to badmouth them -- have you attempted to coparent by siding with dad? Have you attempted to correct junior's attitude towards girlfriend?

And you honestly think yelling achieves something? Yelling shouldn't be done at all. How does the girlfriend expect to get respect from the kids if she is constantly yelling at them all the time? Talking would be nice.

And mouthy criminals don't listen to talking.

Are you serious about her dumping out the clothes? Because they didnt fold it the way SHE wanted it done it is okay for her to do that? If she wants them to do it then she shouldnt care how it is done as long as it gets done.

Seriously? She is allowed to dump the clothes and have STANDARDS on how things should be folded.

Having clothes folded a certain way is petty, my kids put their clothes away and I am a neat freak but I dont fret and go and dump their drawers out til its done perfectly. Is this the military?

It is a life lesson. May your children never have to work at a retail store. Or any business that requires things to done in a specific manner.

I have tried talking to their father. He either immediately starts cussing and swearing at me or he hangs up on me. Yesterday I called him to let him know I kept our son home from school because he was throwing up all morning. He started telling me that I should have fu**ing dropped him off at fu**ing home.

And?

When I tried explaining to him that I was going to take care of him since he was puking he had already hung up. I have done more than try to communicate with him. I have called and left messages, I have written letters and mailed them, I even tried asking him things yesterday when he picked our sick son up and he IGNORED me.

He is allowed to ignore you. Especially since you called the police yesterday regarding him and today junior just HAPPENS to be throwing up. Sure he was sick? Or was something more going on there?

I am done writing though. I will just hit my kids if they mouth back to me because apparently it is ok as long as there isn't a mark left for more than a day and a half.

You really don't get it. Have you called to get your sexually offensive teenager into counseling? Or are you just going to wait until he pulls down the pants of someone else and ends up with criminal charges and a sexual conviction? Just curious.

I notice you avoided stating why you lost custody but it is beginning to emerge.

 

[Banned_Princess]

I completely and constantly agree with OG.

If your son were so scared of his mean bully dad, he wouldn't act up the way he does and he certainly without a doubt not talk back to him or his girlfriend.

Your son is just not getting the message. (and this is the norm for tens.)

 

[ALGURLX1]

I completely and constantly agree with OG.

If your son were so scared of his mean bully dad, he wouldn't act up the way he does and he certainly without a doubt not talk back to him or his girlfriend.

Your son is just not getting the message. (and this is the norm for tens.)

I don't know about this. I grew up with a very abusive bio-mother who while we (my 2 sisters and 1 brother) did fear her, at a certain age we started to stand up to her. When my oldest sister (she was about 9) did this she didn't so much go after her as much and the rest of us learned. She would find the number for CPS and tell go ahead and call dialing the number for my brother once.

Mom not legal advice but, if you believe your sons I would call CPS and/or have a report file like Isabella said. I would also make sure you to take a step back and see if it is your son or your ex or the combination of both. Obviously something needs to be done.

 

[meghamann]

Thank you. As I have stated previously, my kids have been afraid of their dad and just recently, like the last two-three months, started telling me things that have been going on. I have found out things that happened months and months ago. He only just started mouthing off to his father because things have gotten worse and they are fed up.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you. As I have stated previously, my kids have been afraid of their dad and just recently, like the last two-three months, started telling me things that have been going on. I have found out things that happened months and months ago. He only just started mouthing off to his father because things have gotten worse and they are fed up.

I thought you were done writing. You haven't answered the questions posed to you regarding what the finding of facts stated for custody and why dad has it; you haven't answered what type of stuff you have pulled on dad and his girlfriend other than being derogatory towards them. I notice your one sided view of things.

You also have not answered whether or not your sexually deviant son is in counseling. Yet you keep prattling on.

Also it is incredible that your son was puking the day after he talked to the police about his daddy. Could it be because he was lying?