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Trouble with NC Parent

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Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Ohiogal, that was stated BEAUTIFULLY! I am being sincere! I think that's what she needs to know.

*Hey, if your children are doing this, they can be considered delinquent. From a legal standpoint, this is what you need to do and this is what could happen.*

The problem with what could be construed as "attacks" by some on a site like this is that they often won't come back. They most likely will not get the info they desperately need. I by no means think this should be a hand-holding party. I do believe that people should be able to get questions answered without feeling personally attacked.

If they come here, get told they are a crappy parent, then leave - I'm afraid that may harm rather than help their situation.
NO ONE told her she was a crappy parent. What people were attempting to tell her is she can't blame dad for things that occur on HER watch -- that when dad is out of town then SHE is and should be in FULL CONTROL of HER children. If she took it that she is a crappy parent then she is reading things that are not there.
 


cvj

Member
NO ONE told her she was a crappy parent. What people were attempting to tell her is she can't blame dad for things that occur on HER watch -- that when dad is out of town then SHE is and should be in FULL CONTROL of HER children. If she took it that she is a crappy parent then she is reading things that are not there.
I'm quite sure that even in law a strong implication of something matters, even if were not directly said or it did not directly happen. For example, if a parent denies visitation by not responding to requests from the NC parent, it is still denial even though "no" was not expressly said.

What I'm trying to get at it is this forum is to help people. A lot of people have been upset by the things you have said. That is FACT. You are a voice of wisdom on here because of your experience with the law. That gives you a lot of power on a board like this. Please use it wisely.

I understand what you are trying to say. However, the person posting LEFT because it seems she felt ridiculed and I'm not sure that helped her.

A great thing about your posts is that it will prepare people for the cold, hard reality that is the legal process. I just don't think everyone will get that.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
NO ONE told her she was a crappy parent. What people were attempting to tell her is she can't blame dad for things that occur on HER watch -- that when dad is out of town then SHE is and should be in FULL CONTROL of HER children. If she took it that she is a crappy parent then she is reading things that are not there.
While I agree with this wholeheartedly. However its difficult with teens if you have the other parent telling them that they are free to use the house and have friends over. She did take the key away from them this past summer, and it caused a great deal of resentment.
 

penelope10

Senior Member
I just wanted to bring up a point that even the BEST parent cannot police a child 24 hours a day. In my community you can do all the right things, such as, take your child to school and physically watch them walk into the building. Doesn't mean they are gonna stay in school all day however. Notice of missed school periods are given to the parent per a recorded message at the END of the school day. So if a parent works, and kiddo gets home before them, the message can easily be erased before the parent gets home.

Of course, you can request that the school call you at work, however, most school districts will tell you that they simply don't have the time or manpower to do so. I was able to stay at home, so I got any messages that the school sent to me:D And as a parent of a now grown teenager, I can tell you that there are creative things they can do even when grounded. (Even with alarm systems etc.)

I believe that when Dad goes out of town for long periods of time that DAD should collect the keys to his home while he is gone since there is obviously a problem with alcohol etc. with the kiddo. Anything that the child needs from the home should be collected before Dad leaves. And if kiddo forgets something than kiddo is S.O.L. until Dad gets back.

In my community, the parent that actually owns or rents the home gets into deep do-do if a party happens while they are away. (Not to say that the other parent won't have legal problems too).
 

cvj

Member
I just wanted to bring up a point that even the BEST parent cannot police a child 24 hours a day. In my community you can do all the right things, such as, take your child to school and physically watch them walk into the building. Doesn't mean they are gonna stay in school all day however. Notice of missed school periods are given to the parent per a recorded message at the END of the school day. So if a parent works, and kiddo gets home before them, the message can easily be erased before the parent gets home.

Of course, you can request that the school call you at work, however, most school districts will tell you that they simply don't have the time or manpower to do so. I was able to stay at home, so I got any messages that the school sent to me:D And as a parent of a now grown teenager, I can tell you that there are creative things they can do even when grounded. (Even with alarm systems etc.)

I believe that when Dad goes out of town for long periods of time that DAD should collect the keys to his home while he is gone since there is obviously a problem with alcohol etc. with the kiddo. Anything that the child needs from the home should be collected before Dad leaves. And if kiddo forgets something than kiddo is S.O.L. until Dad gets back.

In my community, the parent that actually owns or rents the home gets into deep do-do if a party happens while they are away. (Not to say that the other parent won't have legal problems too).
I completely agree with this. As a parent there is a fine line between policing your child and knowing when to let them suffer the consequences for their actions. This may be especially true for single moms who are forced to work to provide for their children. There is only so much we can do. We can't follow our kids around looking over their shoulder 24/7.

may the best thing for FinnSW to do would be to say "Look, these are the rules. These are not MY rules. They were established by the courts and I have a legal obligation to follow them. You may not like that fact, but it is reality.

I will abide by the rules and make sure you are also following them to the best of my ability. If you choose to not follow the rules, I will call the police. You may not like me as your parent, but I cannot deny my legal and moral responsibility as one, even if you do not like it."

One great thing for FinnSW is that she has both the legal and parental power on her side in this case. She needs to exercise it.

Finn, you won't get any mother of the year awards from your kids over this, but you may very likely earn their respect.

Also, if she can prove that the father continually undermines her authority, does she have a legal case that she can present in court?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
I completely agree with this. As a parent there is a fine line between policing your child and knowing when to let them suffer the consequences for their actions. This may be especially true for single moms who are forced to work to provide for their children. There is only so much we can do. We can't follow our kids around looking over their shoulder 24/7.

may the best thing for FinnSW to do would be to say "Look, these are the rules. These are not MY rules. They were established by the courts and I have a legal obligation to follow them. You may not like that fact, but it is reality.

I will abide by the rules and make sure you are also following them to the best of my ability. If you choose to not follow the rules, I will call the police. You may not like me as your parent, but I cannot deny my legal and moral responsibility as one, even if you do not like it."

One great thing for FinnSW is that she has both the legal and parental power on her side in this case. She needs to exercise it.

Finn, you won't get any mother of the year awards from your kids over this, but you may very likely earn their respect.

Also, if she can prove that the father continually undermines her authority, does she have a legal case that she can present in court?
She has to prove that dad is aggressively undermining her authority. Letting his children have a key to HIS house is NOT undermining her authority. She has the power to say no. She has the power to enforce rules. She has the power to make rules that are not in contradiction to the law and court orders (which act like law). If she chooses not to enforce the rules because it makes her children upset, that is on her.

As for the fact that dad would get in trouble if a party happens while HE is away -- not necessarily. Does dad have JOINT LEGAL custody or is mom sole legal custodian? Did dad know that the children were at his house giving an illegal party? There are a variety of questions that would need to be answered.

As for this:
While I agree with this wholeheartedly. However its difficult with teens if you have the other parent telling them that they are free to use the house and have friends over. She did take the key away from them this past summer, and it caused a great deal of resentment.
Mom truthfully needs to deal with the resentment. Dad may be telling them that are free to be at his house HOWEVER mom is the authority figure and legal custodian during her time and she needs to lay down the law. being a parent is NOT easy. She will have to deal with being told she is a mean mom or a variety of other things but guess what -- if she is never told she is mean or not understanding, then she most likely is NOT doing her job as a parent.
 

FinnSW

Member
While I agree with this wholeheartedly. However its difficult with teens if you have the other parent telling them that they are free to use the house and have friends over. She did take the key away from them this past summer, and it caused a great deal of resentment.
This is exactly my point. If the law can't intervene than so be it. I have never had a nonchaperoned party at my home. I have strict rules about girls over (I have to be home) and my kids are actually good about all of this with me. I don't think there would have been the couple of parties there if the teen wasn't invited by Dad for them to use the house when he is gone.

I did actually have a free consultation with an attorney and that person was positive about going back and modifying the orders to make it more tight. I signed on here to see what other opinions were before hiring him.
 

cvj

Member
I did actually have a free consultation with an attorney and that person was positive about going back and modifying the orders to make it more tight. I signed on here to see what other opinions were before hiring him.
I definitely would hire the attorney. They will let you know how strong of a case you have.

My kids don't like me OFTEN. That's part of being a parent, unfortunately.
 

penelope10

Senior Member
She has to prove that dad is aggressively undermining her authority. Letting his children have a key to HIS house is NOT undermining her authority. She has the power to say no. She has the power to enforce rules. She has the power to make rules that are not in contradiction to the law and court orders (which act like law). If she chooses not to enforce the rules because it makes her children upset, that is on her.

As for the fact that dad would get in trouble if a party happens while HE is away -- not necessarily. Does dad have JOINT LEGAL custody or is mom sole legal custodian? Did dad know that the children were at his house giving an illegal party? There are a variety of questions that would need to be answered.

As for this:


Mom truthfully needs to deal with the resentment. Dad may be telling them that are free to be at his house HOWEVER mom is the authority figure and legal custodian during her time and she needs to lay down the law. being a parent is NOT easy. She will have to deal with being told she is a mean mom or a variety of other things but guess what -- if she is never told she is mean or not understanding, then she most likely is NOT doing her job as a parent.
In my community when it comes to drinking it doesn't matter if the parent gave permission or not. They are legally responsible for their child's actions. Mom should lay down the law, but Dad also has responsibility. Let's say, heaven forbid, a child dies of alcohol poisoning at a party at Dad's. And it's found out that Dad had knowledge that instances of drinking happened at his home prior and still made the key available to his children. Mom is not going to be found 100% responsible in this case, the law is going to go after Dad too because he made his home readily accessible.
 

penelope10

Senior Member
In my community when it comes to drinking it doesn't matter if the parent gave permission or not. They are legally responsible for their child's actions. Mom should lay down the law, but Dad also has responsibility. Let's say, heaven forbid, a child dies of alcohol poisoning at a party at Dad's. And it's found out that Dad had knowledge that instances of drinking happened at his home prior and still made the key available to his children. Mom is not going to be found 100% responsible in this case, the law is going to go after Dad too because he made his home readily accessible.
In fact an adult who is not a parent, had prior knowledge that drinking was going on in their home while they were away, would get in deep trouble if they continued making their home accessible to minor children as a possible haven for parties.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
This is exactly my point. If the law can't intervene than so be it. I have never had a nonchaperoned party at my home. I have strict rules about girls over (I have to be home) and my kids are actually good about all of this with me. I don't think there would have been the couple of parties there if the teen wasn't invited by Dad for them to use the house when he is gone.

I did actually have a free consultation with an attorney and that person was positive about going back and modifying the orders to make it more tight. I signed on here to see what other opinions were before hiring him.
Does your son still have access to driving? Is he still allowed freedom to roam even though you know he has been engaging in drinking and drugs? You say he is allowed to have girls over and there are strict rules -- why is he allowed to socialize if he throws alcohol parties? They are NOT good about honesty with you if they are sneaking over to dad's when he is not home to throw keggers. You may want to believe that they are good about all of it with you but not if they are going to dad's because of the temptation. Seriously.
 

FinnSW

Member
I definitely would hire the attorney. They will let you know how strong of a case you have.

My kids don't like me OFTEN. That's part of being a parent, unfortunately.
You have been more than kind and gracious here and I truly thank you.
 

cvj

Member
You have been more than kind and gracious here and I truly thank you.
You are VERY welcome! Stay strong, get an attorney, and please, PLEASE put your foot down! It's things like this that test our character and not only earn us respect from others, but respect for ourselves as well.

Don't let yourself be pushed around and KNOW YOUR POWER! You have the law on your side. You can do this!
 

FinnSW

Member
In fact an adult who is not a parent, had prior knowledge that drinking was going on in their home while they were away, would get in deep trouble if they continued making their home accessible to minor children as a possible haven for parties.
Thank you penelope for your comments. I don't want anything to happen to any of these kids and I am trying to see if the court order can be modified so Dad may feel inclined to be more cooperative.
 

FinnSW

Member
I'm quite sure that even in law a strong implication of something matters, even if were not directly said or it did not directly happen. For example, if a parent denies visitation by not responding to requests from the NC parent, it is still denial even though "no" was not expressly said.

What I'm trying to get at it is this forum is to help people. A lot of people have been upset by the things you have said. That is FACT. You are a voice of wisdom on here because of your experience with the law. That gives you a lot of power on a board like this. Please use it wisely.

I understand what you are trying to say. However, the person posting LEFT because it seems she felt ridiculed and I'm not sure that helped her.

A great thing about your posts is that it will prepare people for the cold, hard reality that is the legal process. I just don't think everyone will get that.

To be honest I was really shocked by some of the comments. Not the factual ones (and yes it was helpful for me to hear how the court would respond so I can think about a few things) and I don't mind pointed questions. But there are alot of unnecessary comments being made. And OhioGal you have the right to be as brash as you want but yanno, it is not always helpful. Heck, it's a free country and this is a public forum so you can do what you want. And you can go on believing that some of your hardened comments have benefit or merit here. If you care to take some advice yourself I would suggest you tone some of the comments down cause clearly you have alot to offer if it was given in a less critical manner. I hear loud and clear that really I can be held responsible for Dad's directives to the kids during my parenting time. All the more reason to hire an attorney and go over better details of the case. Both parents are emotionally influential in kids lives - even if they aren't always around physicially (they are in touch almost daily by phone when he is away)
 
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