I've really had it

[Nevergrowup]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MO

15 year old daughter came home from Thanksgiving at stepmom's family's house. She started crying, and said that she had a great time all day, except stepmom avoided her, and said snide little things like "its all about (daughter's name) isn't it". That daughter sat by her dad at the table, and dad said to move a bit so stepmom could sit by him too, and stepmom deliberately took her chair to the kids table. Daughter's dad fell asleep with his infant, and daughter fell asleep with her head on his shoulder, and stepmom kind of punched daughter in the arm and said "wake up, why are you even here if you aren't going to be social." Then on the way home, she told dad "I've had enough, you need to spend time with your daughter, she can't be around my family anymore" and when daughter got out of the car at my house, she threw a jacket that doesn't even belong to my daughter in her face. All four of their children witnessed this, and heard what stepmom was saying to dad about our daughter.

Background...never married, dad and I get along, my husband stays completely out of it, his wife is nuts, Dad even knows it but tries to avoid conflict at any cost. Court order is basic visitation for him, Wednesdays, e/o/w, half summer. We do not follow court order and never have. He hasn't taken her on a Wednesday in years and years, takes her twice a month for weekends. We split holidays amicably, and generally get along. Summer since she is a high school cheerleader he just takes her some weekends, because she has practice daily in the summer (he agreed on the activity, and we live 45 minutes apart so he won't take her, so she stays home). He lost his job (not sure if laid off or fired) and stopped paying cs in January...started again in May at a reduced rate (that his wife decided upon) and has been making up past months at the reduced rate (shorting me by thousands so far) but I don't mention it because I'd rather keep peace than have money. He is bartending, and making good money (because I know where he works and the clientele) but I'm sure it is cash.

Stepmom emotionally abuses my daughter every time she goes over there, and I have really had it. Dad won't put a stop to it, because he has to live with her every day, and he also doesn't want to give up his time with our daughter (and I commend him for that) but I have to think of what is best for her. If my husband treated our child like that, dad would want to kick his you know what. I feel like I am failing my child, letting it go on. She loves her dad and siblings, but cries at school on the Fridays she has to go over there, cries in the car when my dad takes her over there, and is so glad to be home on Sunday she is nicer to us than any 15 year old you know (that doesn't last, but you know what I mean).

She is NOT playing us against each other. She is truly miserable, and believes stepmom hates her. They used to be close, but when I cut off contact and wouldn't let stepmom interfere anymore, and when she had her own kids, my daughter just became an expensive burden to her. Stepmom obsesses on control, and tried to become Mom, which was a big fat he double hockey sticks NO with me.

What can I do? How can I help this situation? Is there anything I can do? And then tonight, she sort of hit her, and threw something in her face! I know that isn't actionable, but I have had enough of my daughter being tortured, and her dad just won't do anything but makes her come over! He even admits to me that it is terrible, but that he won't give up her coming over (and I understand that).

Oh, and he also has been working at least 2 of the three weekend day/nights when she is there, so daughter is stuck there with that evil woman (who, by the way, works with children and runs a school for all ages, nice, right).

Edited to add something...daughter would rather be at my house, grounded doing hard labor with no cell phone, than go over to her dads because stepmom is so mean to her. She does not want to stay home just to go out with friends or anything like that, she is completely miserable over there and dad isn't even home most of the time she is there.

 

[ecmst12]

This is not legal advice, just my personal story.

When I was 16, I had finally had it with being mistreated by my dad and stepmom during weekend visits, and I refused to continue going. My mom knew what he put me through, and supported my decision. Dad didn't fight it, and that was that. I still saw him for holidays but no more overnights.

If she stops going, and he decides to go to court over it, he has a strong chance of winning. But he might not. It might just send a message to him though. It took a lot more then that for my dad to finally change his behavior enough that I'm now (16 years later) able to have a decent relationship with him, and I didn't talk to him at all for a good chunk of my 20's, but her dad is not my dad.

I think your daughter needs to have a good talk with her dad, in PRIVATE (not around stepmom) about how SM's attitude makes her feel, and what it is doing to her relationship with dad. And how he needs to FIX the problem, or he's going to lose his daughter. It's a hard conversation for a teenager to have with a parent, and it's a shame he's too much of a pansy to stand up to his disrespectful, bullying wife WITHOUT being prompted by his kid, but coming from her it might mean more then coming from you. I am a big promoter of kids being taught not to put up with anyone treating them with disrespect, no matter WHO they are, and how to APPROPRIATELY stand up for themselves. That's a skill that will serve them well forever.

 

[Nevergrowup]

I very much appreciate your story, thank you so much for sharing it with me.

I too stopped going to see my dad when I was 15ish, because of my stepmom. My dad didn't fight it either. At the time, I was happy he didn't fight it, but as an adult, I wish I would have been just a bit more important to him. They are divorced now, and I'd bet my retirement that daughter's dad and stepmom will divorce eventually.

She is so scared to talk to him, she doesn't want to hurt him, plus the times she has talked to him, he tells stepmom everything that was said, and daughter catches h*ll for it. Even dad's family has called daughter to tell her to "hang in there", that they all "know" what is going on and can't stand dad's wife...it makes me sick. I know he loves her. I know he wants to see her! But he really is going to lose her if he doesn't get his wife to stop.

I don't want to resort to court, obviously, since I keep my mouth shut about the child support, and I have only spoken to him about this a couple of times. I felt since it was his house, it isn't my place to interfere. But I"m afraid if something isn't done, he will do such damage to their relationship, and I know what kind of ill effects I suffered due to my "dad complex" (dating bad boys, thinking bad treatment was deserved, ect). I don't want to take her from him...and he sees her so little, to take away anything is to basically take away everything. I want her to have a great relationship with him! But stepmom is making it impossible and he is allowing it.

I guess I will encourage her to talk to him again...it killed me tonight, she walked in and burst into tears, stepmom had just flung the jacket in her face and all her siblings had to witness it.

I think eventually if it doesn't change, I am going to have to put a stop to it. I doubt stepmom would allow him to spend money on an attorney at this point, but I don't want to take advantage of that...really, I just want him to reign in his wife. I even asked him "can't you ask your wife to lay off, just for the few days a month you see daughter? You don't get that much time with her and this conflict ruins that time!" He agreed with me! Daughter is a great kid...good grades, a singer in a national children's choir for almost 8 years (she even sings with the symphony!), and a cheerleader. Stepmom goes off on her for her clothing (not weird clothes), wearing any type of makeup (normal makeup use, not weird), using a cell phone (although dad feels free to call her on it), wearing nail polish, basically EVERYTHING. She acts like she is the worst kid in the world, and that is how my daughter feels when she comes home, it is seriously detrimental to her self esteem.

Oh, and my favorite...she compares daughter's hair to "her mother's" meaning me, and says "I can totally see where you get your makeup habits, from your mother" (umm...yes, I wear a bit, don't most women? But I'm quite normal!" I really got mad at that and told dad that I would never let my husband say anything negative about dad to daughter, and he should not allow his wife to malign me or infer that daughter has bad qualities and she got them from me. Again, he agreed. Sigh.

 

[CJane]

Is it possible to talk to Dad and encourage him to have Princess for like a Saturday afternoon "Dad n Me Date" or something? HE gets quality time with HER, and Stepmom is out of the loop.

There's a good chance, at her age, if he took it to court your daughter would be granted a LOT of leeway in how and when they spend time together anyway.

 

[Nevergrowup]

Is it possible to talk to Dad and encourage him to have Princess for like a Saturday afternoon "Dad n Me Date" or something? HE gets quality time with HER, and Stepmom is out of the loop.

There's a good chance, at her age, if he took it to court your daughter would be granted a LOT of leeway in how and when they spend time together anyway.

I will suggest it to him. She wants to see her siblings too, and they are all very young...four of them, infant to 8 or so. He has tried a couple of times to come see her cheer and brought a couple of the kids, I know she loved that he made the effort. I always feel like I am interfering in his house if I try to talk to him about what goes on there but I think I might give it another go.

I might also suggest that daughter talks to dad's sis when she feels like talking...she is the one that really reached out to daughter a couple of months ago, and is close to the situation. It might help a bit. Perhaps his sis can help make him see what is happening.

CJane, I read a lot on here and know you are very familiar with MO law. Have you seen many cases regarding this type of thing? Even if he took me to court, she'd be close to 16 before we got near a courtroom. She doesn't want to stop visiting, she just doesn't want to be subjected to being stuck with his wife the whole weekend.

 

[ecmst12]

We only seem to read about 2 types of stepmoms here - the kind that hates the kids because they remind her that her husband used to be married to (or just sleep with) someone else, and the kind that loves the kids but hates mom and wants to replace her. I know there are good ones out there (some of them are seniors here in fact!) but it seems so rare. My stepmom treated me and my brother like crap but HER daughter (my half sister who I love to pieces) could do no wrong. She passed away a couple of years ago and well...I supported my sister through her loss. After I got older and she got sick, I came to appreciate my dad's relationship with her a little, but there will never be an excuse for how she treated us. My dad has become a better parent and a better person since he started seeing his current girlfriend. She was also widowed with teenage and adult children and she has been really good for him, taught him a lot about the proper role a parent plays once the kids grow up (back the F off, in other words!) and he seems to recognize now more then he used to, what is really important in life. I hope it doesn't take as much for your ex to get there.

My mom didn't take dad to court....I just stopped going. I wouldn't suggest it to her if I were you, but if she brings it up, consider it. At the very least, if he gets upset enough to fight over it, that might make him willing to change.

 

[CJane]

CJane, I read a lot on here and know you are very familiar with MO law. Have you seen many cases regarding this type of thing? Even if he took me to court, she'd be close to 16 before we got near a courtroom. She doesn't want to stop visiting, she just doesn't want to be subjected to being stuck with his wife the whole weekend.

Here's the deal. IF daughter decides to stop visiting, even if it's for a short time to gauge Dad's reaction, I really think Dad is unlikely to take court action.

If he does, in order to have you held in contempt, he's not just going to have to show that you've violated the court order, but that you did it maliciously and in an attempt to harm his relationship with her. He's going to have a hard time showing that unless he's willing to lie about his wife's behavior.

These decisions vary widely by judge and by county, but I can see an order (I can even see Dad agreeing to a stipulation) that daughter see Dad no less than once per month at her discretion, and that holidays remain as they are.

Has she thought about offering to babysit the sibs so Dad and step mom can go out?

She's got to survive less than 3 more years. She can make it.

 

[ecmst12]

If this stepmom is anything like mine, she won't allow daughter to babysit HER babies because daughter is such a "bad influence".

 

[LdiJ]

I would like to throw out an option as well...

I like the idea of the child confiding in her aunt and asking for help there.

However, dad is bartending and that does give mom a rather unique opportunity to speak to him away from his wife. If she would go to the bar he works at, at a time when the bar is likely to not be very busy, she could have the opportunity to privately discuss with him the situation with their daughter.

However, what it boils down to is that dad has quite a few other children with stepmom, and is probably afraid of a divorce there and all the ramifications of that.

 

[Nevergrowup]

I would like to throw out an option as well...

I like the idea of the child confiding in her aunt and asking for help there.

However, dad is bartending and that does give mom a rather unique opportunity to speak to him away from his wife. If she would go to the bar he works at, at a time when the bar is likely to not be very busy, she could have the opportunity to privately discuss with him the situation with their daughter.

However, what it boils down to is that dad has quite a few other children with stepmom, and is probably afraid of a divorce there and all the ramifications of that.

LdiJ, you hit the nail on the head with the last part. Baby number three was a save the marriage baby after he cheated on her with her friend for 5 months. Baby number four, well, in his words was an "oops". Daughter said they fight constantly and things dad says to me would suggest that as well. He and I used to be friends...and still have a somewhat uneasy friendship. I have told him that I do have some sympathy for him, as I understand what he is dealing with, and he said "do you? Do you really?" My sympathy is limited, because he could have mitigated the situation long ago, but he'd rather fight with me or deal with daughter's emotions that take it from his wife daily. We are much easier to deal with than she is. Cuz we aren't nuts, lol.

I might try to go to the bar. My brother goes there sometimes, maybe I'll go with him. But stepmom's family owns it . It is large though, but I am sure that someone would tell stepmom I was there. Okay, on second thought, probably not a good idea

I think I will have daughter call her aunt to say Happy Thanksgiving, and suggest she chat a bit with her about what made her so upset. So frustrated!

I would never, never suggest she has the choice of not going there. But it is escalating...I can see it soon, where she will refuse to go, and if she is just going to take that crap all weekend from that woman, I don't see how as a responsible parent I can make her.

 

[Nevergrowup]

If this stepmom is anything like mine, she won't allow daughter to babysit HER babies because daughter is such a "bad influence".

They used to go out on Saturdays and have her babysit (which I thought was weird anyway, since he only sees her 4 nights a month) but since the infant was born, there is NO WAY stepmom would trust daughter. And honestly, I think 4 kids is too much for her...sweet girl, but not a natural babysitter like some kids are. I don't leave my three with her for very long, and mine aren't that young.

I also suggested that daughter propose to stepmom to just "start over" and act like their relationship is new and fresh, and try to be friends. They were close once (when he was trying to be the Best Mom Ever). Dad and I did that very thing...wiped out the past and the anger we felt about various things and started over and it worked! Daughter suggested it a couple of times. Stepmom sort of tried once, and quickly reverted to accusing and talking of the past...once, she told daughter that daughter was lying that she even wanted to try because she always lies and that is all she ever does.

 

[Nevergrowup]

Update.

I talked to dad. He confirmed that Thanksgiving was entirely due to his wife overreacting, and that daughter did not deserve the treatment, and did nothing to provoke it besides be a normal 15 year old.

Daughter told me today that stepmom told daughter she is the worst 15 year old she has ever been around. Hmm...I'm not sure what gets better than an A and B getting choir singing cheerleading normal clothes wearing 15 year old, but whatever. Doesn't daughter sound awful ?

So, I suggested to dad that daughter only comes over when he isn't working. He said "removing one of them won't solve the problem" (I refrained from saying, um, yes, it will) and said "I can't be away from the other kids either". I said "I'm not saying to separate everyone. I'm saying to not have her come over when you aren't going to be there. What is the point? All it does is make stepmom and daughter, neither of who want to be around each other, be stuck with each other while you work.".

I even offered to do more driving if it would help. He said he would think about what could be done and I just suggested he consider it...that daughter thinks stepmom will turn her siblings against her and can see it happening already, and that she doesn't want to stop seeing them but wants him around also, to buffer stepmom.

So, hopefully he will get head out of arse and do the right thing here. If he won't, I am going to his family, and if necessary, I will take it further, although I REALLY don't want to deal with court. I know he can't afford it and my family would also suffer from the expense, although I'll bear it better than he will.

Keep fingers crossed, please! And thanks for the help/suggestions so far!

 

[The_Non-Mom]

Update.
If he won't, I am going to his family, and if necessary, I will take it further, although I REALLY don't want to deal with court. I know he can't afford it and my family would also suffer from the expense, although I'll bear it better than he will.

Do you plan to talk to the family of and take to court every person your daughter doesn't get along with? Sounds like there is a personality conflict. SM isn't abusing your daughter. I agree she's not being very nice, but no one is required to be nice to your princess. Sounds like Dad is on the right track by having both SM and daughter to deal with each other and hopefully work out their relationship.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

My X has a GF that sounds very much like your X's wife. They got along great while my kiddos were younger, but when the girls got older, her treatment of them changed.

This past summer was an eye opener for the youngest. She was removed from her princess status and moved into the dungeon status. Why? Cuz I think her personality and stubborness clashed with the GF. She opened up quite a bit lately about it, and I just listen.

What I see is that probably MORE is expected of your daughter, but no one is expressing what MORE is. So, kiddo isn't living up to stepmom's expectation, but she doesn't know that she isn't.

Has your daughter been taken to see a counselor? They can help her see where she fits into all this. I would see if dad could attend so that possibly he can salvage his relationship with her.

I know that I'll be sending kiddo to counselor before she heads up for summer vacation.

 

[The_Non-Mom]

OP,
Just wanted to offer another side of the story to maybe help put things into perspective for you. My SD and I are having some "personality conflicts" right now too. She and I have been attached at the hip for six years, but we have been on each other's nerves for about two months. SD will be 12 in a couple of months. Since I came into her life, she has grown up and matured in some ways (she is an accomplished horse rider) and stayed a child in other ways (STILL can't convince that kid to shower everyday).

I feel like SD isn't stepping up to my expectations, and it makes me frustrated. I put out a lot of myself (emotionally, financially, physically) to my SD, and lately I feel like it's being taken for granted. Her dad and I have had to take her off her pedestal we put her on. We have really had our eyes opened in the last few weeks that SD rules the roost at our house, and we need to change that fast!

I am sure my SD feels very much like your daughter. My SD doesn't like the fact that she isn't in charge anymore and that she and I have a strained relationship, and her mom tells me how upset SD is about that. But Mom has decided to stay out of the conflict and let Dad deal with it. Dad is so grateful (and so am I) to know that Mom trusts him (and me!) enough to handle this without taking sides. Dad and Mom discuss SD's issues via email on a regular basis. Mom makes suggestions; sometimes Dad takes them. But I cannot even IMAGINE SD's mom talking to Dad's family or taking him to court over this. It's a Mom and Dad issue and Mom and Dad are dealing with it.

Please afford Dad the same courtesy you would expect if you were in a conflict with your daughter. Step back. Let him handle the problems in his home. Make suggestions if you like, but don't be offended if he doesn't take all of them. If SM does abuse your daughter in anyway, take action. But until then, be patient.