Illegal Search and Seizure??

[skydakota]

Three years ago, my son who had just turned 18 years old, met a man who, unbeknownst to my son, was a reputed drug dealer. My son was not dealing drugs, but was so intimidated and equally "taken in " by the man's cavaier style, that my naive son complied with his request to do a "drop" for him - simply walk with the drugs down the block, and someone would come by to pick them up. Three minutes later, the police, who had virtually no cause for suspicion, chose to stop and apprehend my son as he walked down the street in a local neighborhood. They frisked him and patted him down, then told him that he was free to go. No more than ten seconds later, as they were re-entering the police car, one of the officers shouted, "go for the boxers", at which point they lunged at my son and groped their way directly into the front of his jeans and dove their hands down into his private area, where they found the drugs. It this isn't clearly a case of illegal search and seizure, then I don't know what is!? Diving into someone's boxer shorts with their hands?? We have retained an attorney, but he claims that a judge is normally reluctant to admit illegal searh and seizure because then the police will be exposed as bumbling fools who act with total disregard for following procedure, and we are sadly finding that the legal system which is supposedly designed to seek justice is actually just contorted and "political". The way I have described the indcident is exactly the way it occurred. How can this possibly be difficult to prove...several officers reaching down into the front of a person's pants? Isn't this a violation of the Fourth Amendment? What about the federal case of US vs. White? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. This incident is robbing my son of his life, and he is unable to even secure a job because of the fact that these charges are appearing on his background check...where is the justice in that concept either...charges appear and a person has twenty strikes against them, even though the charges have not been proven?? Does society give any young men a fair chance at life? My son is bright and talented with an amazing personality, he interviews perfectly, than is consisently disheartened after the company runs his background check. And society wonders why people can't get a "fresh start"...my son can't evn get hired for a job!! That of course is a separate issue, but please kindly respond to my questions regarding this blatant example of illegal search and seizure. Thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[Zigner]

Three years ago, my son who had just turned 18 years old, met a man who, unbeknownst to my son, was a reputed drug dealer. My son was not dealing drugs, but was so intimidated and equally "taken in " by the man's cavaier style, that my naive son complied with his request to do a "drop" for him - simply walk with the drugs down the block, and someone would come by to pick them up. Three minutes later, the police, who had virtually no cause for suspicion, chose to stop and apprehend my son as he walked down the street in a local neighborhood. They frisked him and patted him down, then told him that he was free to go. No more than ten seconds later, as they were re-entering the police car, one of the officers shouted, "go for the boxers", at which point they lunged at my son and groped their way directly into the front of his jeans and dove their hands down into his private area, where they found the drugs. It this isn't clearly a case of illegal search and seizure, then I don't know what is!? Diving into someone's boxer shorts with their hands?? We have retained an attorney, but he claims that a judge is normally reluctant to admit illegal searh and seizure because then the police will be exposed as bumbling fools who act with total disregard for following procedure, and we are sadly finding that the legal system which is supposedly designed to seek justice is actually just contorted and "political". The way I have described the indcident is exactly the way it occurred. How can this possibly be difficult to prove...several officers reaching down into the front of a person's pants? Isn't this a violation of the Fourth Amendment? What about the federal case of US vs. White? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. This incident is robbing my son of his life, and he is unable to even secure a job because of the fact that these charges are appearing on his background check...where is the justice in that concept either...charges appear and a person has twenty strikes against them, even though the charges have not been proven?? Does society give any young men a fair chance at life? My son is bright and talented with an amazing personality, he interviews perfectly, than is consisently disheartened after the company runs his background check. And society wonders why people can't get a "fresh start"...my son can't evn get hired for a job!! That of course is a separate issue, but please kindly respond to my questions regarding this blatant example of illegal search and seizure. Thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Wow - just Wow.

So, you're dope-mule son got caught and now the dope-mule-protecting momma or poppa wants to complain that the COPS did something wrong?

Great parenting there...NOT!

 

[Antigone*]

Three years ago, my son who had just turned 18 years old, met a man who, unbeknownst to my son, was a reputed drug dealer. My son was not dealing drugs, but was so intimidated and equally "taken in " by the man's cavaier style, that my naive son complied with his request to do a "drop" for him - simply walk with the drugs down the block, and someone would come by to pick them up. Three minutes later, the police, who had virtually no cause for suspicion, chose to stop and apprehend my son as he walked down the street in a local neighborhood. They frisked him and patted him down, then told him that he was free to go. No more than ten seconds later, as they were re-entering the police car, one of the officers shouted, "go for the boxers", at which point they lunged at my son and groped their way directly into the front of his jeans and dove their hands down into his private area, where they found the drugs. It this isn't clearly a case of illegal search and seizure, then I don't know what is!? Diving into someone's boxer shorts with their hands?? We have retained an attorney, but he claims that a judge is normally reluctant to admit illegal searh and seizure because then the police will be exposed as bumbling fools who act with total disregard for following procedure, and we are sadly finding that the legal system which is supposedly designed to seek justice is actually just contorted and "political". The way I have described the indcident is exactly the way it occurred. How can this possibly be difficult to prove...several officers reaching down into the front of a person's pants? Isn't this a violation of the Fourth Amendment? What about the federal case of US vs. White? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. This incident is robbing my son of his life, and he is unable to even secure a job because of the fact that these charges are appearing on his background check...where is the justice in that concept either...charges appear and a person has twenty strikes against them, even though the charges have not been proven?? Does society give any young men a fair chance at life? My son is bright and talented with an amazing personality, he interviews perfectly, than is consisently disheartened after the company runs his background check. And society wonders why people can't get a "fresh start"...my son can't evn get hired for a job!! That of course is a separate issue, but please kindly respond to my questions regarding this blatant example of illegal search and seizure. Thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Take off the rose-colored glasses. Your son is a drug dealer. They found drungs in his shorts.

How long ago did this happen and was he found guilty?

 

[Mass_Shyster]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[FlyingRon]

Paragraphs are your friend.

Delivering the drugs is distribution.

All they need is specific and articulable suspicion of illegal activity to stop him.
As for the "go for the boxers" I would suspect that something additional happened that made them more suspicious.

You'll have to give a better cite for US v. White. The one that I am aware of involves an informant wearing a wire.

If you have a lawyer, listen to him.

Robbing your son of his life? You're son is a drug dealer and you're grasping a thin procedural issue to hope he gets off.

I hope the lawyer's a good one.

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

This one was too good to pass up, but I do see your point

 

[Mass_Shyster]

The kid is guilty, but he may get off on a technicality. It sounds like the man with the cavaier style was under surveillance by the police. They saw him give your son a package, which your son stuffed down his pants. That, by itself, sounds like clearly articulatable probable cause for an arrest.

Junior walked down the street where more police officers were waiting. The surveillance team radioed the squad car and identified the suspect, who was stopped and frisked. When they told the surveillance team that they found nothing, the response was "What!!!???, we saw him stuff the package in his shorts", at which point, they found the drugs.

There appears to have been a communications breakdown between the surveillance team and the squad car. When the squad car was informed that there was probable cause for arrest, they should have arrested junior and would have found the drugs in the ensuing search. Instead, they searched first, and arrested him. Even so, they can claim inevitable discovery, as they were going to perform a search incidental to the arrest.

As to the other question, why should Junior get a second chance? I spent my life avoiding trouble, and have led a pretty dull life as a result. That was my choice. Junior decided he wanted some excitement, and is paying the price. I think it would stink if he got to play, and didn't have to pay.

 

[Zigner]

As to the other question, why should Junior get a second chance? I spent my life avoiding trouble, and have led a pretty dull life as a result. That was my choice. Junior decided he wanted some excitement, and is paying the price. I think it would stink if he got to play, and didn't have to pay.

White water rafting
Skydiving
Snowboarding

Those are examples of "excitement". What Jr did was not done to get some excitement in his life.

 

[FlyingRon]

White water rafting
Skydiving
Snowboarding

Those are examples of "excitement". What Jr did was not done to get some excitement in his life.

I'm sure the "bumbling fools" in law enforcement find their career exciting as well. They get to take down drug dealers.

 

[BOR]

Dakota, if they had probable cause to arrest him, they can search before the magic words are uttered, Rawlings v. Kentucky.


Let's leave out the first stop, as he was then free to go, as obviously he was under watch and they may have had a reasonable belief he was armed. The courts grant leeway to officer's on scene judgment for a "Terry frisk/Terry pat down", especially when drugs are involved, as dealers/users are frequently known to carry weapons.

The next issue was the crotch search. You find it an uphill climb to consider this a 4th violation. The same with a weapon. knife, small caliber gun, etc. For an officer not being able to retrieve it due to being in the crotch is a stretch.

Officers enjoy what is known as "Qualified Immunity", and to be successful in a suit for Civil rights violations, you must prove they violated "Clearly established law". Not easy to do I would say given the facts as posted??

 

[skydakota]

my heartfelt reply

This is my reply to whomever had the lack of compassion to call my son a drug dealer, which he is not, nor was he ever a drug dealer or ever used drugs. One small mistake at the age of 18 years old, that is worth all this heartache? And for whomever mentioned a "poppa" in the picture, there isn't one. I was divorced when my son was very young, and was an exemplary mother We have always been very close and he has never been in trouble before. My son attended private school and I gave him the best of everything. Your response made us sound like we are trailer trash, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. I do NOT wear rose-colred glasses, that is my reply to whomever felt the need to say that, and perhps you do not have a child, for if you did, you would know the feeling that comes with loving a child and the fact that your child is your reason for living. Everyone makes mistakes, who doesn't? Show me someone who hasn't made a mistake and they would be walking on water. Who is anyone to judge? I am deeply disheartenend that not one response I received showed any feelings of sympathy for our situation whatsoever. Makes me wonder who is really wearing the rose-colored glasses?? Wake up, llife doesn't always go according to plan, and the harsh truth is that there is reality out there!! I posted my thread for afvice, not criticism or judgemental remarks. Say what you want, but my son is devestatingly handsome, greagarious, highly intelligent, can interact with people of all ages, has style and charisma...and is a person everyone tries to emulate. He is a class act in every way. ...and this was the only mistake he has ever made, so I can only I hope that God will show us the way to find a bright future for my son. Thank you anyway for the advice I never received.

 

[Antigone*]

This is my reply to whomever had the lack of compassion to call my son a drug dealer, which he is not, nor was he ever a drug dealer or ever used drugs. One small mistake at the age of 18 years old, that is worth all this heartache? And for whomever mentioned a "poppa" in the picture, there isn't one. I was divorced when my son was very young, and was an exemplary mother We have always been very close and he has never been in trouble before. My son attended private school and I gave him the best of everything. Your response made us sound like we are trailer trash, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. I do NOT wear rose-colred glasses, that is my reply to whomever felt the need to say that, and perhps you do not have a child, for if you did, you would know the feeling that comes with loving a child and the fact that your child is your reason for living. Everyone makes mistakes, who doesn't? Show me someone who hasn't made a mistake and they would be walking on water. Who is anyone to judge? I am deeply disheartenend that not one response I received showed any feelings of sympathy for our situation whatsoever. Makes me wonder who is really wearing the rose-colored glasses?? Wake up, llife doesn't always go according to plan, and the harsh truth is that there is reality out there!! I posted my thread for afvice, not criticism or judgemental remarks. Say what you want, but my son is devestatingly handsome, greagarious, highly intelligent, can interact with people of all ages, has style and charisma...and is a person everyone tries to emulate. He is a class act in every way. ...and this was the only mistake he has ever made, so I can only I hope that God will show us the way to find a bright future for my son. Thank you anyway for the advice I never received.

Forget the rose-colored glasses, lady you've got blinders on. I'd tell you what the crystal balls say but we all know that it certainly will never apply to your handsome gregarious, highly intelligent drug-dealing son.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Three years ago, my son who had just turned 18 years old, met a man who, unbeknownst to my son, was a reputed drug dealer.

Yea right, he had NO idea the dude sold drugs, what kind of idiot is your son?

My son was not dealing drugs, but was so intimidated and equally "taken in " by the man's cavaier style, that my naive son complied with his request to do a "drop" for him - simply walk with the drugs down the block, and someone would come by to pick them up.

Right, so as your son was walking down the street minding his own business, this dude that your son didn't know sold drugs, came up to him and said "yo kid go deliver these drugs"

Three minutes later, the police, who had virtually no cause for suspicion, chose to stop and apprehend my son as he walked down the street in a local neighborhood.

Virtually, other then the boys carrying drugs, probably down a drug block, after coming fro the drug dealers house, that he has been before. Plus he wasn't apprehended at this point.

They frisked him and patted him down, then told him that he was free to go. No more than ten seconds later, as they were re-entering the police car, one of the officers shouted, "go for the boxers", at which point they lunged at my son and groped their way directly into the front of his jeans and dove their hands down into his private area, where they found the drugs

. Since you weren't there, I'm going to say, how do you think you know what happened? Don't try to act like your son was molested by the cops, he was searched, and SURPRISE the drugs are right where drug dealers keep their drugs. Did the big mean drug dealer instruct you oh so innocent boy to shove the drugs in his underwear, or did your angel just know what to do.

It this isn't clearly a case of illegal search and seizure, then I don't know what is!?

Good thing its not up to you to know what is.

Diving into someone's boxer shorts with their hands?? We have retained an attorney, but he claims that a judge is normally reluctant to admit illegal search and seizure because then the police will be exposed as bumbling fools who act with total disregard for following procedure

That Lawyer wants your business, but knows better then trying to nail cops, who found drugs in their search and seizure, no less, for doing it illegally. What is it you expect, drugs being hidden (proof kiddo knew it was illegal and wrong to do it BTW) in underwear is protected from being found?

The street cops, who are out on YOUR streets trying to fight the evils of drug addiction, are the ones who should be rewarded, and they are, when they get the drug dealing scum off the streets, there search and seizure, is rarely if ever illegal.

Plus they probably know all about your son, and his connections with the main dealer, and the favors kiddo is probably doing for him, probably for drugs.

and we are sadly finding that the legal system which is supposedly designed
to seek justice is actually just contorted and "political".

To me, justice was served when the drugs were found, and when your son goes to jail for it. he might as well be out killing kids souls.

The way I have described the indcident is exactly the way it occurred.

Cause you were there, and had a video recording of the whole incident, from when your dear son shoved drugs in his pants, to when the smart, and respectable police found them?

How can this possibly be difficult to prove...several officers reaching down into the front of a person's pants?

Lady, (I'm going to assume you to be momma) You seem to think, the cops had no right to find drugs on your kid, because he hid them in his pants, don't you think every drug dealer already does that? do you think he should have just been allowed to continue down the street to deliver drugs because he put the drugs in the "off limits hiding spot?"

Isn't this a violation of the Fourth Amendment?

AMENDED - Fine, what about this says Illegal to you. I think, just from you biased story, cops had probable cause, and if they didnt at the time, they do now. END OF AMENDMENT

What about the federal case of US vs. White?

What about it?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

.
You are a terrible parent. don't get yourself all worked up that your child was wronged, because it was him who wronged himself in the first place.

This incident is robbing my son of his life,

YOUR SONS CHOICES to distribute drugs, robbed himself of his own life, don't come trying to peddle that "Oh my poor drug dealing kid" on us.

and he is unable to even secure a job because of the fact that these charges are appearing on his background check...

Why wasn't he trying to get a job, instead of running drugs?

where is the justice in that concept either...

The justice is for the poor victims, of the drugs he was getting ready to distribute.

charges appear and a person has twenty strikes against them, even though the charges have not been proven??

Have not been proven? your next mission is going to be to prove he wasn't even carrying any drugs, even though the cops found it, and it actually happened.

Does society give any young men a fair chance at life?

The ones who aren't dealing, distributing, doing any drugs, yes they do get a fair chance, it is up to the PARENT to raise the child to do the right thing. You failed us all.

My son is bright and talented with an amazing personality, he interviews perfectly, than is consisently disheartened after the company runs his background check.

Maybe he should have tried that before settling on being a drug dealer.

And society wonders why people can't get a "fresh start"...my son can't evn get hired for a job!!

I do not wonder that, I wonder why parents like yourself go on and on about how there child was wronged, when caught doing something VERY WRONG.

That of course is a separate issue, but please kindly respond to my questions regarding this blatant example of illegal search and seizure. Thank you

Your lawyer already said there is nothing you can do, I suggest you plea down as far as you can. you'll need a lawyer for that. Maybe he should say he was on drugs, he wasn't delivering them he was doing them. Too late, you have already decided to go the dead end route. Sorry.

Your son was wrong here, the cops are hero's to me, and most of the rest of society, and you need to face some hard facts here. Your son is responsible fr his situations, his choices brought him to where he is, and he needs to pray he doesn't do any serious jail time over this.

Go back to the lawyer, who was trying to comfort you, and be honest with you, and try to get the lowest plea you can.

Good luck.

 

[BOR]

Quote:
Isn't this a violation of the Fourth Amendment?

Were they federal agents? No.

Huh? Just why would that make a Constitutional difference? Do you know the 4th AM has been applicable to the states since 1949? Obviously not.

 

[Banned_Princess]

This is my reply to whomever had the lack of compassion to call my son a drug dealer, which he is not, nor was he ever a drug dealer or ever used drugs.

He was literally caught dealing drugs... OK not dealing, but distributing drugs.

One small mistake at the age of 18 years old, that is worth all this heartache?

This is no small mistake.

And for whomever mentioned a "poppa" in the picture, there isn't one. I was divorced when my son was very young, and was an exemplary mother

So exemplary in fact, that as soon as kiddo was booked on possession, with intent to distribute a controlled substance, you right away decided that your son was not a drug dealer, ( the fact that he was delivering drugs overlooked completely BTW ) The cops had violated him and had no right to find the drugs lil kiddo was hiding,

We have always been very close and he has never been in trouble before.

Well, then I hope he has learned a lesson, you learn a lesson, and his plea deal will reflect the change of life your SON (not change of police work) will have to go through,

My son attended private school and I gave him the best of everything.

You are doing him no favors by trying to get him out of trouble this way.

Your response made us sound like we are trailer trash, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. I do NOT wear rose-colred glasses,

Beer goggled sized blinders, actually.

that is my reply to whomever felt the need to say that, and perhps you do not have a child, for if you did, you would know the feeling that comes with loving a child and the fact that your child is your reason for living. Everyone makes mistakes, who doesn't? Show me someone who hasn't made a mistake and they would be walking on water.

Your pain is misplaced. Your son is responsible for all of this, and he needs to be punished according to what the court wants to do.

Who is anyone to judge?

The judge is to judge, and he ain't this kids momma, so none of this
ranting will help him at all. Buy spoiled brat best lawyer available, and shut up.

I am deeply disheartenend that not one response I received showed any feelings of sympathy for our situation whatsoever.

I have NO sympathy to drug distributors, Like I said, they might as well be running around cutting the throats of little kids souls. Do you know the damage of drug addiction? no, cause your son deals them, not takes them.

Plus what makes you think the court is going to show simpathy?

Makes me wonder who is really wearing the rose-colored glasses??

You are. Actions have consequences, and thats what you are trying to avoid here.

and the harsh truth is that there is reality out there!!

Thats a hard truth you need to reconcile with yourself ma'am, I am not fooling myself...

I posted my thread for afvice, not criticism or judgemental remarks. Say what you want, but my son is devestatingly handsome, greagarious, highly intelligent, can interact with people of all ages, has style and charisma...and is a person everyone tries to emulate.

SO WHAT. people like those aree KILLED everyday by the DRUGS Your son helping to get onto the street, are you trying to say, your son, is better then everybody, and should be held above the law? act like a drug dealer, get thrown in jail like a drug dealer.

He is a class act in every way.

Except when he is delivering death to a suffering addict and their family.

...and this was the only mistake he has ever made, so I can only I hope that God will show us the way to find a bright future for my son.

I hope he learns a lesson about the consequences of hanging around known drug areas, with known drug dealers, and carrying drugs.

Thank you anyway for the advice I never received.

Thats because you gone on and on about how you feel about this whole thing when the fact is, you should buy the best lawyer around to represent your child, maybe get the charges reduced. I definitely wouldn't go with the illegal search defense. thats asking for trouble.


Leave the law to the lawyers, and go get one... then listen to him.