Weak Grounds for Emergency Custody?

[LdiJ]

Hi guys. I'm hearing everything you're saying.

CJane and LdiJ, I see that it really does come down to spinning the facts in the courtroom to how it suits your 'side'.

My ex does feel above the law and infallible at this point. And not scared to put out a little money at the start for an attorney again, with the confidence she'll win again and not have to pay for that attorney, and get her retainer right back. That's been evident in her lack of consideration of any laws since the last court case. She hasn't reported any of her residential moves to the court, hasn't discussed is change in schools with me twice now, which is out of line with the definition of joint legal custody. It's been very clear I'm an ATM in her eyes, and that point is validated and strengthened when someone in the position to correct this situation, and address something besides just money, doesn't (that would be the judge).

I don't think all the issues are Mom's fault; I do think most of them are. I am constantly researching how to deal with the issues my son has, how to co-parent in a situtation like this, and how to foster a healthy environment for him in the face of inconsistency. I see a therapist myself when I hit a roadbloack that I can't figure out how to work around, when the research I find on the parenting issue points to lack of structure and consistency when I know addressing that is just not an option in our situation, since he goes right back to Mom's on Monday, and her values in her own words are to make sure he gets to school and has a 'home' to return to, period. So I have to ask for professional help in the tougher situtations. I really don't know what else I can do to examine myself and change any more behaviors on my end to contribute to the solution.

CJane, my work hours are flexible, and I have my schedule arranged based on my schedule with my son. My supervisor and employer are aware of my family dynamics, and work with me a great deal. That's why I've been able to offer my ex additional child care in lieu of the consistent requests for additional money (e.g., when she decided she didn't want to work anymore and wanted to go to college for a fleeting moment). The reason I offered to help her financially transition while taking custody of my son is I know that the biggest sticking point for her in giving me physical custody is financial. Her past behaviors have always come down to the money, not our son. Before anyone hollers at me about that, my posts are already too long, so if you would like examples of interactions where I try to problem-solve when it comes to our son, and she's not happy with any solution except a financial one, let me know, I'll describe them.

In the meantime, in sticking to the legal facts, I'm working on the route of an expert witness (psychologist) to get involved and give a professional opinion as to whether or not what I see contributing to my son's issues is accurate. I'm not ignoring the advice for a GAL; I feel strongly a GAL would be able to clearly see the overall picture of the continuity, stability, and healthy environment present or lacking in either home. I'm unsure however a GAL would be able to understand and address the medical needs and implications of this situation? Do they work with doctors in their process? I think I'm going to try to incorporate both. Holler if I'm heading in the wrong direction trying both...

This thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. You are talking constantly about "consistancy" for your child. You are absolutely not recognizing that when two parents are not together, that a child is going to have two homes, with two family dynamics, and they are virtually never going to be "consistant". You MUST accept that you and mom have differing parenting styles, and live with that.

You have a valid argument that your child has changed schools more often than is probably optimal for him. However, what you have to prove is that the changing of schools has caused him harm. Since he has consistantly received good grades that may be difficult to prove.

I honestly think that you might have better luck convincing a judge to order mom to put the child back in private school and keep him there, with you paying the school directly for that, rather than it being part of your child support. Then it wouldn't matter where mom lives.

 

[mistoffolees]

Hi guys. I'm hearing everything you're saying.

CJane and LdiJ, I see that it really does come down to spinning the facts in the courtroom to how it suits your 'side'.

No, I don't think you're hearing what people are saying.

My ex does feel above the law and infallible at this point. And not scared to put out a little money at the start for an attorney again, with the confidence she'll win again and not have to pay for that attorney, and get her retainer right back. That's been evident in her lack of consideration of any laws since the last court case.

I'm sure you're not hearing what people are saying.

DROP THE DRAMA. No one (least of all the judge) cares that you think your ex thinks she's going to get her attorney's fees back or your ex is inconsiderate to you. 99% of your babbling IS IRRELEVANT.

FOCUS. What is best for the child. Not your rants about how evil your ex is. Not you incessant complaining about things you can't prove.

WHAT HARM TO THE CHILD CAN YOU PROVE? That's the only thing that matters in a custody case.

So drop all the crap and stop worrying about how you're going to spin things and stop trying to make people feel sorry for you. What are the PROVABLE FACTS in the case that argue for a change in custody? So far, I don't see a heck of a lot - most of the facts you would have had have been made irrelevant because you accepted them.

THEN, if you can come up with relevant facts arguing for a change in custody, what PROVABLE FACTS are there to argue for an emergency hearing. So far, there are none. The child is in school, the child is being fed, the child doesn't have any emergency medical needs, the child has a roof over his head, the child doesn't have bruises all over his body. NOTHING argues for an emergency hearing.

You seem to think that your emotional pleas make a difference. They make no difference here - and even less difference in court. The judge has heard it all before and is going to simply get bored and tell you to get lost.


Now, go ahead and tell me that I'm evil and unsympathetic. I don't care. If you continue to do what you're doing, you're going to lose - again - and spend a lot more money paying your ex's legal fees with no benefit to your child. So do yourself a favor and go back and read the advice you've received and LISTEN rather than simply filtering it through your own biases. Then, go back and read some of the thousands of other threads here so you can learn how the system works.

Or not.

Your choice.

 

[Shears]

GALS work with everyone involved with the child. A GAL is your best friend if you sincerely think there are issues that involve Mom; your worst enemy if you're trying to play the system.

Question...argh, not sure if I know how to word correctly, because I have 50 questions in my head - I don't want to go to court only to have the judge say 'well that psychologist's opinion doesn't count because xyz' - I want to do this right and not get tripped up in the red tape.

Is the current psychologist (even though we've only had one visit, parents only) sufficient for the GAL to work with? Or is there some list of approved psychologists courts use for legal matters? I'm not too concerned who the doctor is for medical reasons - I feel strongly any accredited, trained psychologist will see the same symptoms, causes, and treatments, as there isn't a lot of mystery to the behaviors our son is exhibiting. I only care about the 'who' so we don't do the 'wrong thing' in court and have our son's wellbeing be ignored again.

 

[Shears]

This thread is a perfect example of what I am talking about. You are talking constantly about "consistancy" for your child. You are absolutely not recognizing that when two parents are not together, that a child is going to have two homes, with two family dynamics, and they are virtually never going to be "consistant". You MUST accept that you and mom have differing parenting styles, and live with that.

You have a valid argument that your child has changed schools more often than is probably optimal for him. However, what you have to prove is that the changing of schools has caused him harm. Since he has consistantly received good grades that may be difficult to prove.

I honestly think that you might have better luck convincing a judge to order mom to put the child back in private school and keep him there, with you paying the school directly for that, rather than it being part of your child support. Then it wouldn't matter where mom lives.

Thank you for the suggestion - I'll offer that as well to her as a solution before trying court.

I already offered the solution of his attending the school in my district without changing custody (and looking into the legalities of that when the primary custodial parent does not live in the same county); she told me it was unreasonable for her to drive 21 miles to take him to school. I live in county A; she has been moving back and forth between counties B and C for the past 3 years. So I will look for a private school somewhere between counties B and C that she will hopefully be able to drive to every year no matter which county she moves to for that year.

 

[mistoffolees]

Question...argh, not sure if I know how to word correctly, because I have 50 questions in my head - I don't want to go to court only to have the judge say 'well that psychologist's opinion doesn't count because xyz' - I want to do this right and not get tripped up in the red tape.

Is the current psychologist (even though we've only had one visit, parents only) sufficient for the GAL to work with? Or is there some list of approved psychologists courts use for legal matters? I'm not too concerned who the doctor is for medical reasons - I feel strongly any accredited, trained psychologist will see the same symptoms, causes, and treatments, as there isn't a lot of mystery to the behaviors our son is exhibiting. I only care about the 'who' so we don't do the 'wrong thing' in court and have our son's wellbeing be ignored again.

The judge is unlikely to state that any given psychologist's opinion doesn't count. If the psychologist is licensed and practicing in the state and has examined the child in enough depth to have formed an opinion, it will probably be allowed to be entered.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean your psychologist's opinion will necessarily carry the day. The opposing side will have the opportunity to enter their own psychologist expert opinion - which likely will not agree with yours. They will also have the right to question your expert to look for flaws in his analysis and/or obvious biases (for example, a psychologist who had testified 10,000 times in child custody issues and had recommended that the child go with the father every single time might well find that his opinion was disregarded). You would, of course, have the ability to question the other side's witness.

A competent psychologist will know what to say and how to present an expert opinion in court. The rest is up to you and your attorney.

That said, it is unlikely that a psychologist is going to be able to form a valid expert opinion on a child's development on the basis of a single meeting with the parents. He would need to have spent a significant amount of time with the child to form any valid expert opinion.

 

[SESmama]

I took matters into my own hands and started making the doctor's appointments to address our son's issues. It turns out he is textbook inattentive ADD, and also has Oppositional Defiant Disorder (Conduct Disorder).

Our son resumed the 2010 school year at this same public school. Things have been better with the ADD now that I have forced acknowledgment and treatment.

For one, our son has ADD. The lack of addressing of this problem on my ex's part has done him a disservice (the well researched and documented effects of untreated ADD, via medication or otherwise, are horrible on a child's school performance and socialization). After 5 months of some pretty stressful email exchanges, my ex has finally agreed to acknowledgment and treatment. In the meantime, he's the one who suffered.

For the comorbid problems, we have had one family visit with a counselor (parents only), and are awaiting mental health benefits to be approved in order to start my son on visits. He has been tentatively diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant/Conduct Disorder, awaiting future evaluation with the therapist.

Do I need to present the court with evidence from a doctor that says proves the diagnoses, the causes, and the treatment, and specifically names who, based on their evaluation, can best provide that environment?

Is the current psychologist (even though we've only had one visit, parents only) sufficient for the GAL to work with? Or is there some list of approved psychologists courts use for legal matters? I'm not too concerned who the doctor is for medical reasons - I feel strongly any accredited, trained psychologist will see the same symptoms, causes, and treatments, as there isn't a lot of mystery to the behaviors our son is exhibiting.

I am confused. You stated your child was indeed diagnosed with ADD and ODD. YET, he has not been examined by a licensed psychologist only that one has had a single meeting with the parents. And then you stated that the mother refused to cooperate with the doctors. So...
1) Was child truly diagnosed with ADD/ODD by a true and licensed psychologist and you have a true and legal report stating the child has ADD/ODD?
2) If the psychologist had a single meeting with the "parents" was it just you and step-mom or was it you and mom?

So which is it? If you do have an official diagnosis then the child has been indeed seen by a state licensed psychologist (or other professional licensed to actually give said diagnosis and I am sorry but pediatricians are rarely, if ever, experts to give such a thing) and that would be your witness. If you do not then you have lying to us. Does your son have an IEP or 504 plan in place at school? If not then there is more than likely NOT a true and documented diagnosis and only a guess. You are correct that a teacher/school psych/school counselor cannot submit a diagnosis in Georgia schools but they can recommend he be seen outside the school for diagnosis and if you ask for it the school (if they do not fight it due to his academics) will send him and pay for an outside expert diagnosis. So, tell me exactly what you have please.

 

[futuredust]

This child has not been seen by a psychologist or psychiatrist to obtain the diagnosis of ODD...

For the comorbid problems, we have had one family visit with a counselor (parents only), and are awaiting mental health benefits to be approved in order to start my son on visits. He has been tentatively diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant/Conduct Disorder, awaiting future evaluation with the therapist.

I am curious who "tentatively" diagnosed this child with ODD, and who diagnosed the child with ADD.. The answer may lay in the numerous, lengthy posts, if so, I missed it.

 

[mistoffolees]

I am confused. You stated your child was indeed diagnosed with ADD and ODD. YET, he has not been examined by a licensed psychologist only that one has had a single meeting with the parents. And then you stated that the mother refused to cooperate with the doctors. So...
1) Was child truly diagnosed with ADD/ODD by a true and licensed psychologist and you have a true and legal report stating the child has ADD/ODD?
2) If the psychologist had a single meeting with the "parents" was it just you and step-mom or was it you and mom?

So which is it? If you do have an official diagnosis then the child has been indeed seen by a state licensed psychologist (or other professional licensed to actually give said diagnosis and I am sorry but pediatricians are rarely, if ever, experts to give such a thing) and that would be your witness. If you do not then you have lying to us. Does your son have an IEP or 504 plan in place at school? If not then there is more than likely NOT a true and documented diagnosis and only a guess. You are correct that a teacher/school psych/school counselor cannot submit a diagnosis in Georgia schools but they can recommend he be seen outside the school for diagnosis and if you ask for it the school (if they do not fight it due to his academics) will send him and pay for an outside expert diagnosis. So, tell me exactly what you have please.

I think my previous post is even more true than I thought when I wrote it. OP is all about drama. A lot of noise and no facts.

 

[Shears]

This child has not been seen by a psychologist or psychiatrist to obtain the diagnosis of ODD...



I am curious who "tentatively" diagnosed this child with ODD, and who diagnosed the child with ADD.. The answer may lay in the numerous, lengthy posts, if so, I missed it.

Pediatrician diagnosed him with it. We are looking to a mental health professional to confirm, as a pediatrician is not a mental health professional.

 

[mistoffolees]

Pediatrician diagnosed him with it. We are looking to a mental health professional to confirm, as a pediatrician is not a mental health professional.

Then it's not a diagnosis and is absolutely useless in terms of legal matters.

 

[futuredust]

Pediatrician diagnosed him with it. We are looking to a mental health professional to confirm, as a pediatrician is not a mental health professional.

No... really?

 

[futuredust]

Then it's not a diagnosis and is absolutely useless in terms of legal matters.

Exactly...

 

[Shears]

Then it's not a diagnosis and is absolutely useless in terms of legal matters.

Aware of that, and that's why we want a mental health professional to get to the bottom of it, whatever *it* is, that the pediatrician thinks is ODD, and looks and smells like ODD.

The pediatrician diagnosed him with ADD and probable ODD and/or Conduct Disorder. She recommended medication (for the ADD), but Mom was reluctant. She referred us to mental health counseling.

I let Mom know which of the pediatrician's referrals were on our son's insurance plan, and she selected the therapist.

I scheduled the appointment.

Both Mom and I saw the mental health professional together, for 2 hours, with no 'individual' time in that 2 hours - all of it was together.

At the closing of the visit, the therapist said, and I quote, "I will not start treating your son for the comborbid conditions until he is being actively treated for ADD." If you'd like her explanation as to why, I'll explain.

So we went back to the pediatrician, and Mom took the recommendation to start ADD treatment in the form of medication.

In the meantime, are adjusting his insurance to cover therapy sessions for him individually.

 

[LdiJ]

Aware of that, and that's why we want a mental health professional to get to the bottom of it, whatever *it* is, that the pediatrician thinks is ODD, and looks and smells like ODD.

The pediatrician diagnosed him with ADD and probable ODD and/or Conduct Disorder. She recommended medication (for the ADD), but Mom was reluctant. She referred us to mental health counseling.

I let Mom know which of the pediatrician's referrals were on our son's insurance plan, and she selected the therapist.

I scheduled the appointment.

Both Mom and I saw the mental health professional together, for 2 hours, with no 'individual' time in that 2 hours - all of it was together.

At the closing of the visit, the therapist said, and I quote, "I will not start treating your son for the comborbid conditions until he is being actively treated for ADD." If you'd like her explanation as to why, I'll explain.

So we went back to the pediatrician, and Mom took the recommendation to start ADD treatment in the form of medication.

In the meantime, are adjusting his insurance to cover therapy sessions for him individually.

Ok, then you have no proof whatsoever of medical neglect on mom's part.

 

[Shears]

It sucks if legally the timeline doesn't jibe between the official diagnosis and ex changing my son's school and home yet again.

That timeline might jibe if she were to follow the GA relocation statute and notify me within 30 days of an anticipated change of residence; and follow the joint legal custody guidelines and discuss educational changes with me and not 'notify' me of the school change the week it's happening.

The illness is there. It will soon receive a name and an ICD-9 code. It is a mental illness. Instability and lack of structure are unhealthy for persons with mental illnesses. AND for just plain old children. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that.

I will currently legally address paragraph #2; if it stops the move in time for the ink to dry on the ICD-9 code from the therapist, great.

If not, I'll work on helping my son cope with this move, and have the paperwork ready for the next school move. Because I'm quite confident there will be one in a maximum of 2 years.

Simultaneously, I am offering her 4 solutions to the immediate problem - which would be my part of the 'discussion' that never took place about his education. This is the part where HE matters in the conversation; in order of the best Vegas odds of not disrupting our son's education over time:

1) Find a place to move in his same school district

2) Put him back into a private school that she can commit to driving him to for more than a one-school-year-period, regardless of where she moves residentially every 9 moths; I will directly pay the tuition for that school

3) Allow me custody where he can attend the public school in my district (for the performance reasons already mentioned), *and* be most likely to experience continuity in residence

4) Drive him the 21 miles to the public school in my district