Weak Grounds for Emergency Custody?

[mistoffolees]

Aware of that, and that's why we want a mental health professional to get to the bottom of it, whatever *it* is, that the pediatrician thinks is ODD, and looks and smells like ODD.

The pediatrician diagnosed him with ADD and probable ODD and/or Conduct Disorder. She recommended medication (for the ADD), but Mom was reluctant. She referred us to mental health counseling.

I let Mom know which of the pediatrician's referrals were on our son's insurance plan, and she selected the therapist.

I scheduled the appointment.

Both Mom and I saw the mental health professional together, for 2 hours, with no 'individual' time in that 2 hours - all of it was together.

At the closing of the visit, the therapist said, and I quote, "I will not start treating your son for the comborbid conditions until he is being actively treated for ADD." If you'd like her explanation as to why, I'll explain.

So we went back to the pediatrician, and Mom took the recommendation to start ADD treatment in the form of medication.

In the meantime, are adjusting his insurance to cover therapy sessions for him individually.

My first step would be to get a new pediatrician and then get your son treated by a REAL mental health professional.

A pediatrician who recommends treatment for ADD without a formal diagnosis and then throws in a couple more syndromes that need treatment, again without the training or expertise to make that diagnosis, is not someone that I would want to have treating my child. The only exception would be a pediatrician who is a recognized expert in ADD and has appropriate training - but there are few of those.

There are a lot of people throwing around ADD diagnoses - including a lot of teachers I know. That's why a lot more people think that their kids have ADD than the number who really have it.

STOP USING THE KID AS A BATTERING RAM IN YOUR CUSTODY BATTLE.

If the child needs treatment, get him examined by a competent mental health professional who will recommend appropriate treatment. Until then, you're every bit as guilty as your ex is.

 

[LdiJ]

It sucks if legally the timeline doesn't jibe between the official diagnosis and ex changing my son's school and home yet again.

That timeline might jibe if she were to follow the GA relocation statute and notify me within 30 days of an anticipated change of residence; and follow the joint legal custody guidelines and discuss educational changes with me and not 'notify' me of the school change the week it's happening.

The illness is there. It will soon receive a name and an ICD-9 code. It is a mental illness. Instability and lack of structure are unhealthy for persons with mental illnesses. AND for just plain old children. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that.

I will currently legally address paragraph #2; if it stops the move in time for the ink to dry on the ICD-9 code from the therapist, great.

If not, I'll work on helping my son cope with this move, and have the paperwork ready for the next school move. Because I'm quite confident there will be one in a maximum of 2 years.

Simultaneously, I am offering her 4 solutions to the immediate problem - which would be my part of the 'discussion' that never took place about his education. This is the part where HE matters in the conversation; in order of the best Vegas odds of not disrupting our son's education over time:

1) Find a place to move in his same school district

2) Put him back into a private school that she can commit to driving him to for more than a one-school-year-period, regardless of where she moves residentially every 9 moths; I will directly pay the tuition for that school

3) Allow me custody where he can attend the public school in my district (for the performance reasons already mentioned), *and* be most likely to experience continuity in residence

4) Drive him the 21 miles to the public school in my district

If you can get her to agree to one of those, then that would be great. However, please keep in mind that she is absolutely NOT required to agree with you on any of those options. All she is required to do is follow the existing court orders.

 

[Shears]

It sucks if legally the timeline doesn't jibe between the official diagnosis and ex changing my son's school and home yet again.

That timeline might jibe if she were to follow the GA relocation statute and notify me within 30 days of an anticipated change of residence; and follow the joint legal custody guidelines and discuss educational changes with me and not 'notify' me of the school change the week it's happening.

The illness is there. It will soon receive a name and an ICD-9 code. It is a mental illness. Instability and lack of structure are unhealthy for persons with mental illnesses. AND for just plain old children. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that.

I will currently legally address paragraph #2; if it stops the move in time for the ink to dry on the ICD-9 code from the therapist, great.

If not, I'll work on helping my son cope with this move, and have the paperwork ready for the next school move. Because I'm quite confident there will be one in a maximum of 2 years.

Simultaneously, I am offering her 4 solutions to the immediate problem - which would be my part of the 'discussion' that never took place about his education. This is the part where HE matters in the conversation; in order of the best Vegas odds of not disrupting our son's education over time:

1) Find a place to move in his same school district

2) Put him back into a private school that she can commit to driving him to for more than a one-school-year-period, regardless of where she moves residentially every 9 moths; I will directly pay the tuition for that school

3) Allow me custody where he can attend the public school in my district (for the performance reasons already mentioned), *and* be most likely to experience continuity in residence

4) Drive him the 21 miles to the public school in my district

...while the picking apart of my son's 'official' vs. 'tentative' ODD diagnosis took its course, his twice-officially-diagnosed inattentive ADHD got squashed like a bug. That's the other mental illness where stability and structure in the home environment is key to effective treatment < based on advice from the pediatricians (the two that gave the diagnosis), and pretty much any literature you find on the illness.

 

[Shears]

If you can get her to agree to one of those, then that would be great. However, please keep in mind that she is absolutely NOT required to agree with you on any of those options. All she is required to do is follow the existing court orders.

Understood.

 

[futuredust]

...while the picking apart of my son's 'official' vs. 'tentative' ODD diagnosis took its course, his twice-officially-diagnosed inattentive ADHD got squashed like a bug. That's the other mental illness where stability and structure in the home environment is key to effective treatment < based on advice from the pediatricians (the two that gave the diagnosis), and pretty much any literature you find on the illness.

ADD
ODD
and now ADHD


Yet child has never been seen by a mental health professional.

Credibility = Zero

 

[Shears]

My first step would be to get a new pediatrician and then get your son treated by a REAL mental health professional.

A pediatrician who recommends treatment for ADD without a formal diagnosis and then throws in a couple more syndromes that need treatment, again without the training or expertise to make that diagnosis, is not someone that I would want to have treating my child. The only exception would be a pediatrician who is a recognized expert in ADD and has appropriate training - but there are few of those.

There are a lot of people throwing around ADD diagnoses - including a lot of teachers I know. That's why a lot more people think that their kids have ADD than the number who really have it.

STOP USING THE KID AS A BATTERING RAM IN YOUR CUSTODY BATTLE.

If the child needs treatment, get him examined by a competent mental health professional who will recommend appropriate treatment. Until then, you're every bit as guilty as your ex is.

I'm not a fan of my son's pediatrician to begin with (for professional reasons - medically she does seem to know her stuff), but she's a client of my ex-father-in-law, and there was no way my ex was going to have another pediatrician evaluate him. We did at least see a separate pediatrician in the same office for the first visit, and she did diagnose him with it first, so I feel a bit better about that.

In GA it's pretty standard for a pediatrician to evaluate and diagnose ADHD.

No matter what, I personally would prefer his care be in the hands of a psychologist for therapy and a psychiatrist for medication as is needed. I'm doing everything I can to make that happen.

 

[Shears]

ADD
ODD
and now ADHD


Yet child has never been seen by a mental health professional.

Credibility = Zero

ADD and ADHD are used interchangeably, if you're not familiar with it, and haven't experienced it in your life, I can see how you wouldn't know that off the bat.

The technically correct term is ADHD.

In the past, the 'lingo' was that a child who exhibited behavior like my son's had "ADD", meaning only Attention Deficit Disorder, because he is not hyperactive. He is the "space cadet" kind of ADHD.

Now, the correct terminology on paper is ADHD, and there are 4 classifications, one of which is "inattentive". But people still use ADD in conversation pretty often.

You can call it what you want.

A doctor knows the correct technical term. And I know he's been diagnosed.

 

[Shears]

ADD and ADHD are used interchangeably, if you're not familiar with it, and haven't experienced it in your life, I can see how you wouldn't know that off the bat.

The technically correct term is ADHD.

In the past, the 'lingo' was that a child who exhibited behavior like my son's had "ADD", meaning only Attention Deficit Disorder, because he is not hyperactive. He is the "space cadet" kind of ADHD.

Now, the correct terminology on paper is ADHD, and there are 4 classifications, one of which is "inattentive". But people still use ADD in conversation pretty often.

You can call it what you want.

A doctor knows the correct technical term. And I know he's been diagnosed.

here you go:

What is the Difference between ADD and ADHD?

 

[futuredust]

ADD and ADHD are used interchangeably, if you're not familiar with it, and haven't experienced it in your life, I can see how you wouldn't know that off the bat.

The technically correct term is ADHD.

In the past, the 'lingo' was that a child who exhibited behavior like my son's had "ADD", meaning only Attention Deficit Disorder, because he is not hyperactive. He is the "space cadet" kind of ADHD.

Now, the correct terminology on paper is ADHD, and there are 4 classifications, one of which is "inattentive". But people still use ADD in conversation pretty often.

You can call it what you want.

A doctor knows the correct technical term. And I know he's been diagnosed.

You are assuming I have not a clue about any of this. I can assure you I am well versed in the conditions you keep tossing about.

Given your lengthy, often argumentative posts in which you are trying far to hard to be correct, one could surmise that you yourself have a conduct disorder which favors ODD. Maybe you should read the symptoms as opposed to the cause and apply them to your own behavior.

Genetics: Many children and teens with ODD have close family members with mental illnesses, including mood disorders, anxiety disorders, and personality disorders. This suggests that a vulnerability to develop ODD may be inherited.

 

[mistoffolees]

ADD and ADHD are used interchangeably, if you're not familiar with it, and haven't experienced it in your life, I can see how you wouldn't know that off the bat.

The technically correct term is ADHD.

In the past, the 'lingo' was that a child who exhibited behavior like my son's had "ADD", meaning only Attention Deficit Disorder, because he is not hyperactive. He is the "space cadet" kind of ADHD.

Now, the correct terminology on paper is ADHD, and there are 4 classifications, one of which is "inattentive". But people still use ADD in conversation pretty often.

And, yet, your very first post referred to ADD - but now you're criticizing me for using the terminology that YOU used.

Drama queen.

You can call it what you want.

A doctor knows the correct technical term. And I know he's been diagnosed.

Do you want people to try to help or not?

In order for your pediatrician's 'diagnosis' to have any meaning, you'd have to put him on the stand. I can guarantee that opposing counsel will tear his testimony to shreds - based on what you've said. Even more likely, counsel will attack the pediatrician's credentials and probably keep him from getting qualified as an expert in mental health - which is what it takes for his testimony to have ANY value at all.

Then, opposing counsel will bring in a mental health professional who has examined the child and provide true expert testimony.

You are not going to win. Unless the pediatrician has developed certified expertise in ADD, he may not even be able to testify - and even if he does, he'll get clobbered by a true expert.

You've 'diagnosed' your child with at least 3 significant mental health disorders - yet have not arranged for the child to be seen by a mental health expert. Sounds to me like you're pretty guilty of neglect, yourself.

Now, if you'd just close your mouth long enough to learn something from the advice you're being given, MAYBE you could improve your chances. But your know-it-all drama queen attitude makes me suspect that you don't have a chance - simply because you refuse to listen.

 

[Shears]

You are assuming I have not a clue about any of this. I can assure you I am well versed in the conditions you keep tossing about.

Given you lengthy, often argumentative posts in which you are trying far to hard to be correct, one could surmise that you yourself have a conduct disorder which favors ODD. Maybe you should read the symptoms as opposed to the cause and apply them to your own behavior.

Then I'm not sure why you would pick apart the ADD vs ADHD reference? If you're well-versed, then you already knew that wasn't an indication of credibility? That's sort of the definition of argumentative, on your part.

What I'm doing is responding. You'll find from my other posts I don't go back and forth over comments/criticisms that are unconstructive and judgmental. I won't respond again to this one if that's the path you're interested in. I'm not here to fight with strangers, I'm here to figure out how to stop my ex from changing my son's school, and ideally, residence. Again.

 

[LdiJ]

Then I'm not sure why you would pick apart the ADD vs ADHD reference? If you're well-versed, then you already knew that wasn't an indication of credibility? That's sort of the definition of argumentative, on your part.

What I'm doing is responding. You'll find from my other posts I don't go back and forth over comments/criticisms that are unconstructive and judgmental. I won't respond again to this one if that's the path you're interested in. I'm not here to fight with strangers, I'm here to figure out how to stop my ex from changing my son's school, and ideally, residence. Again.

You are not going to be able to stop her, because you have no emergency and because she is not removing the child from the area and therefore your parenting time isn't effected.

As I said previously, if mom doesn't agree to anything about the most you can hope for is to convince a judge to order that the child go to private school, at your expense, and that the child cannot be withdrawn from that school without your agreement.

 

[mistoffolees]

What I'm doing is responding. You'll find from my other posts I don't go back and forth over comments/criticisms that are unconstructive and judgmental. I won't respond again to this one if that's the path you're interested in. I'm not here to fight with strangers, I'm here to figure out how to stop my ex from changing my son's school, and ideally, residence. Again.

Hint: You've been told what you need to do at least 20 times in this thread.

You've been told what WON'T work at least 10 more times in the thread.

You can choose to learn from the advice you've been given -- or not.

Your choice.

 

[Shears]

And, yet, your very first post referred to ADD - but now you're criticizing me for using the terminology that YOU used.

Drama queen.



Do you want people to try to help or not?

In order for your pediatrician's 'diagnosis' to have any meaning, you'd have to put him on the stand. I can guarantee that opposing counsel will tear his testimony to shreds - based on what you've said. Even more likely, counsel will attack the pediatrician's credentials and probably keep him from getting qualified as an expert in mental health - which is what it takes for his testimony to have ANY value at all.

Then, opposing counsel will bring in a mental health professional who has examined the child and provide true expert testimony.

You are not going to win. Unless the pediatrician has developed certified expertise in ADD, he may not even be able to testify - and even if he does, he'll get clobbered by a true expert.

You've 'diagnosed' your child with at least 3 significant mental health disorders - yet have not arranged for the child to be seen by a mental health expert. Sounds to me like you're pretty guilty of neglect, yourself.

Now, if you'd just close your mouth long enough to learn something from the advice you're being given, MAYBE you could improve your chances. But your know-it-all drama queen attitude makes me suspect that you don't have a chance - simply because you refuse to listen.

My goodness!

Are you "futuredust"? I was responding to "futuredust". I didn't criticize you for calling it anything. ? You've got me confused.

I don't care if it's referred to as ADD or ADHD. It's the same thing.

I am *trying* to get my son to a specialist. I have been in a struggle with my ex to get him seen AT ALL. It took a year of horrid progress reports from the school to get anywhere!

Again, as short as I can make this:
*2009 school year - 1st grade - bad behavior reports home daily

*March 2010 - I called a conference with the school (teacher only attends); they suggested we talk to the pediatrician about our son's behavior; ex sends me a form to complete (at this time she was SUPPOSED to have sent the form to the school as well, and complete on herself as well); ex emails me and tells me pediatrician has determined son does not have ADD. or ADHD. whatever you want to call it.

*June 2010 - bad behavior continues; I call another conference with the school, this time school counselor included; they again reference seeing the doctor; I email son's pediatrician and ask for a copy of the March evaluations; they send me a one-page doctor's note saying 'without further evaluation she does not have reason to believe son has ADHD'; I respond and ask for a copy of the completed forms; they say they have no forms; no one will own up to the 'missing forms', but either the pediatrician's office is a sham, or else my ex threw my form away and never had the school fill one out, nor her

*July 2010 - I tell my ex I am not happy with the lack of concern or follow up from this pediatrician regarding our son's behavior problems in school; my ex is unwilling to see another pediatrician; so I schedule appt with pediatrician to find out what is needed to evaluate our son's behavior; forms are given *to me* this time to distribute

*August 2010 - I schedule appt with pediatrician to discuss completed forms, have an in-office evaluation with my son, my ex, and myself; regular pediatrician is not there; other pediatrician in office sees us; she diagnoses ADHD; wants us to have a follow-up visit with regular pediatrician to discuss further

*August 2010 - I schedule appt with regular pediatrician for follow-up; reg pediatrician confirms ADHD diagnosis, states 'probable ODD and/or Conduct Disorder as well', discusses ADHD treatment, wants an occupational therapy eval before she prescribes meds to rule out sensory-something-or-other disorder (deprivation i think she said?); also gives us mental health therapy referrals for 'comorbid conditions'

*August 2010 - I schedule appt with occupational therapist for eval; ex takes son to appt; they find no sensory disorder

*September 2010 - ex is 'anti-medication'; wants to try therapy only first; I schedule family visit under my healthplan, as my son does not have mental health counseling benefits under his current insurance plan, and ex has no insurance herself; therapist says she will not treat our son if he is not actively being treated for ADHD; also at this point, since neither of us can afford the increased mental health rider on the policy (combined with the $150/month ADHD meds which insurance will not cover *and* the counseling co-pays), and my ex qualifies for PeachCare, we agree she will apply for PeachCare (where meds are free, and mental health counseling is covered)

*September 2010 - I schedule appt with reg pediatrician; son starts ADHD meds; PeachCare not yet approved, but first month of ADHD meds are free for all patients; ex is surprisingly very happy with the results, and notices the marked improvement in his ability to focus; much better reports from school on focus ability; still no improvement in behavior with regard to socialization, physical boundaries, etc.

*September 2010 - I call to schedule first individual therapy appointment for our son; email my ex to notify her of the appointment; she tells me PeachCare not yet approved; I ask why; she tells me she still hasn't sent in all the paperwork. She forgot something. I cancel the appointment, and ask her to please notify me when the application is approved.

I never wanted him to see the first pediatrician - she dropped the ball on paying any attention to our son in March 2010. She should never have dismissed our son without requiring the standard evaluation forms. I've taken everything I can into my own hands since I discovered this in June 2010. I *want* him to see one or more *professionals* to try to get to the bottom of all of this.

 

[Shears]

Hint: You've been told what you need to do at least 20 times in this thread.

You've been told what WON'T work at least 10 more times in the thread.

You can choose to learn from the advice you've been given -- or not.

Your choice.

Understood, and I'm on it. Thank you for the legal explanations and advice.