Was I discriminated against because of my LACK of religion?

[HerNameIsNicole]

California

I'm in the middle of a huge battle at my college with this teacher who gave me a grade lower than I earned. I'm in the final stages before the formal school hearing and I realized something REALLY important. In one point she makes to the hearing committe, she says that she gave the class a research paper to do. She says that I wasn't happy with the topic list she provided and insisted on something where I could do interviews instead of reading books. She then says she insisted that I use books and do actual research.

Here's the thing, though...none of that is accurate. And this is all proven because our argument occurred through e-mail. She gave a list of SUGGESTIONS and said the topic needed to be major instances of persecution in history. Well I wrote her asking if I could use RELIGION. I am agnostic, and I feel that religion has persecuted many people in history, such as during the roman crusades. I SPECIFICALLY said that there should be plenty of BOOKS that I could do my research with, "like the bible." I NEVER said I only wanted to do interviews, but mentioned that I could interview pastors, and that I preferred a topic where I could interview people instead of JUST reading books.

Her response? "No. Pick a more suitable subject" Subject? But why did I need to change the subject if the research METHOD was the problem? And what did she recommend I choose instead? She told me that I could do the recent oil spill. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with persecution, and it is what I ended up doing my paper on. Earned an A, by the way.

Anyway, one of my main problems was that I couldn't contact her toward the end of school to find out if I was missing assignments. She wouldn't respond AFTER school had ended about why I received my grade either. I finally had to contact school authorities to get her attention, and she was still rude and wouldn't answer my questions, and that is what has brought me to this hearing in the next couple weeks. She is now claiming that I WAS missing assignments...including some huge in-class essay that even friends in the class never told me that I missed.

I realized a final piece of the puzzle tonight. Reviewing my e-mails, I realized that she actually responded to my messages throughout the semester. She stopped responding to my questions about missed assignments and stuff immediately after our argument about my research paper topic.

So what do you guys think? At least sound really suspicious?

 

[Banned_Princess]

How is this discrimination against your lack of religion?

 

[cyjeff]

As opposed to, say, discrimination against you because the teacher gave you a clear and detailed instruction as to what to turn in and you decided to go your own path.

I am guessing you are a freshman or sophomore... probably a freshman.

You are just figuring out that college professors really don't care about your opinions much... they want you to turn in the work assigned.

I am guessing this was more to help you write a real research paper than the subject matter... and you insisted on going off the rails.

Good luck... but there is no discrimination here. I don't know where you are going to school, but California schools aren't exactly know as bastions of conservative thought and religious adherence.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

What? How did I go my own path or "off the rail"?

I must have not explained the situation properly, because I didn't go my own route at all. The assignment was to write a research paper on a major source of persecution in history. I chose religion because, unlike other sources of persecution in history, this topic gave me the option of also interviewing people who are CURRENTLY alive for information, which I thought would lead to a more thought provoking paper.

Yes, the teacher gave us a list of possible topics, but she specifically stated that they were suggestions and that we didn't have to use any of them. I decided...not to use any of them.

As a matter of precaution, since religion was not on the list, I e-mailed her to confirm. Also I e-mailed her because, hey whaddya know...some people are overly sensitive about religion. She told me that the subject (religion) wasn't suitable, but now that her methods are coming to light to a school committee, she is outright lying and saying that the problem was that I wanted to do a research paper through interviews and with no books, even though the e-mails clearly show that she just didn't like the subject I chose. Also, I clearly state in my e-mail that I expect there will be plenty of BOOKS that I can use on the subject when I propose my idea, before she even told me that it was not a suitable topic.

I have to say, I think I DID explain all that in my original post, though...

 

[Banned_Princess]

So what does this have to do with discrimination, or your lack of religion, or the discrimination against your lack of religion.

so bring the emails to the meeting, what do you want?

 

[commentator]

Ah, college. Where you begin to learn the cold hard facts of life. This person is your boss, you instructor, the purveyor of grades and/or paychecks. If you make a habit of arguing, dissembling, entering into a combative relationship with this authority figure, things will go hard for you all through your educational career and on into life.

While you or your parents may have been in the habit of protesting and complaning about 'unfair grades' in high school, it will get less and less acceptable to do this as you go further in academia.

The idea is that you have acquired nothing yet to teach the world, you're here to learn, so your ideas aren't that important, you have to sit at the feet of someone who knows more than you, and accept their program or you don't make good grades.

For the life of me, I do not see why the refusal of your instructor to let you use your subject of first choice (which incidentally would be the absolutely easiest thing in the world to research for "discrimination" since it's all over the web and has been done a million times) is any kind of religious prejudice or how you could show it is.

When teaching at the college level, one thing I had to do was get my students to limit and specialize their topics for research instead of going for the big broad subject where they could plagarize a lot of general bull.... from the internet and pretend they'd done the research.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

So what does this have to do with discrimination, or your lack of religion, or the discrimination against your lack of religion.

so bring the emails to the meeting, what do you want?

Well she gave me a grade lower than I earned in the class, and is being unethical to try to show that I didn't earn an "A". She is not only lying about the argument, as I already mentioned, but she has produced more than one document to "prove" what I earned, and both documents calculate my grade differently, show different missing assignments, and don't include points for class participation that were promised in her initial syllabus. All of the ignoring of e-mails started after her e-mail about my religious choice of paper topic, and we had no other arguments during the semester. Stands to reason that if she DOES have something against me, that would be it.

What do I want? I want the grade that I earned in the class, an A. I'm not trying to sue or anything, trust me.

Just imagine this situation turned around a bit and tell me if you are still so cynical. Imagine I was a christian and she was not religious. I write her an e-mail saying that I want to do a paper on the harm that not being religious has caused society, she says it's an unsuitable topic even though it meets the requirements she gave the class. She then assigns me a topic that doesn't have anything to do with her original instructions and proceeds to ignore all e-mails from me for the remainder of and after the end of the semester, then refuses to give me points that I earned so that I can't get an "A" in the class.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

Ah, college. Where you begin to learn the cold hard facts of life. This person is your boss, you instructor, the purveyor of grades and/or paychecks. If you make a habit of arguing, dissembling, entering into a combative relationship with this authority figure, things will go hard for you all through your educational career and on into life.

While you or your parents may have been in the habit of protesting and complaning about 'unfair grades' in high school, it will get less and less acceptable to do this as you go further in academia.

The idea is that you have acquired nothing yet to teach the world, you're here to learn, so your ideas aren't that important, you have to sit at the feet of someone who knows more than you, and accept their program or you don't make good grades.

For the life of me, I do not see why the refusal of your instructor to let you use your subject of first choice (which incidentally would be the absolutely easiest thing in the world to research for "discrimination" since it's all over the web and has been done a million times) is any kind of religious prejudice or how you could show it is.

When teaching at the college level, one thing I had to do was get my students to limit and specialize their topics for research instead of going for the big broad subject where they could plagarize a lot of general bull.... from the internet and pretend they'd done the research.

Heh heh, well I'd like to think that I know all about the facts of life when it comes to arguing with authority, but maybe not. BUT...I'm also majoring in criminal justice and plan to become an attorney, so being able to properly argue with authority when they are really in the wrong is going to eventually be in my job description.

Yeah, I can definitely understand a teacher's view that your ideas don't matter much or at all, especially in lower levels of college.

I'm not sure why she wouldn't let me choose that topic either. Like I said, it seems like there would have been a lot of interesting information to draw from, and you seem to agree.

Here is how my mind links religious prejudice and my grade:

THEN

1. She gave us a list of possible topics that she said we did NOT have to use
2. She turned down my topic even though it fit her guidelines.
3. The topic was negative toward religion
4. She is religious (she has spoken about her god/praying in class, just not her specific religion)
5. She stopped responding to further e-mails during and after the semester.

NOW

6. Her statement to the hearing committee says that the list of topics she gave us was not optional and that we had to choose one of them.
7. Her statement mentions nothing about my topic or the fact that she made me change it, but instead says that I was attempting to write a research paper without using any book sources. In actuality, I made specific mention of the fact that many books on the subject are available when I proposed the topic.
8. Her statement includes every e-mail that I sent her during and after the semester EXCEPT the e-mails involving the argument about that paper.
9. Grade records have been falsified to show that I did not earn an "A"

If you still don't see much of a connection here, then I must not have an argument at all, but I personally see a strong cause and effect relationship between my topic choice and my grade.

 

[commentator]

"BUT...I'm also majoring in criminal justice and plan to become an attorney, so being able to properly argue with authority when they are really in the wrong is going to eventually be in my job description."

And in order to ever be in position to win one of those, you've got to have authority of your own, and the way to obtain the credentials to have authority is to learn to be under authority and discipline, to show it proper respect, and to learn the correct way to get your job done, and achieve your objectives instead of throwing yourself blindly and repeatedly on the swords of authority. Don't try this with a judge, no matter what you see on television shows. As a matter of fact, don't even try this at a traffic stop with the young officer who stops you.

Do you realize how sophomoric it sounds for you to be claiming that because you were denied your choice of research topic, because you are a big old free thinking agnostic, that your narrow minded teacher is denying you the grade you have a "RIGHT" to in her course because of your lack of religion? As someone else has said, CA universities are hardly known for being repressive.

As I said based on my experience as an instructor, your topic of choice wasn't appropriate not because you wanted to argue religious issues or put down her religion or flaunt your lack of it, but because at the present time, there is a ton of schlock out on the web about religion, good and bad, and it's easy to obtain and regurgitate this material. It is a vast subject.

Religion is a very subjective subject, it doesn't have to be brought into every class, and it may not need to be, and that was not the type of research paper she was looking for. SHE gets to decide that, and she made it clear to you. Her lack of emails to you thereafter may simply reflect a very common response to argumentative assertive...er...students. She was ignoring you. She had no contractual obligation to answer each time you contacted her, or to give you a certain grade because you fulfilled (in your opinion) certain conditions.

 

[TheGeekess]

Short answer: No, you were not discriminated against because of your lack of religion.

 

[Kiawah]

Anyway, one of my main problems was that I couldn't contact her toward the end of school to find out if I was missing assignments. She wouldn't respond AFTER school had ended about why I received my grade either. I finally had to contact school authorities to get her attention, and she was still rude and wouldn't answer my questions, and that is what has brought me to this hearing in the next couple weeks. She is now claiming that I WAS missing assignments...including some huge in-class essay that even friends in the class never told me that I missed.

Hard to imagine that an 'A' student, would not know what the required assignments were, and excelled in each and every assignment.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

"BUT...I'm also majoring in criminal justice and plan to become an attorney, so being able to properly argue with authority when they are really in the wrong is going to eventually be in my job description."

And in order to ever be in position to win one of those, you've got to have authority of your own, and the way to obtain the credentials to have authority is to learn to be under authority and discipline, to show it proper respect, and to learn the correct way to get your job done, and achieve your objectives instead of throwing yourself blindly and repeatedly on the swords of authority. Don't try this with a judge, no matter what you see on television shows. As a matter of fact, don't even try this at a traffic stop with the young officer who stops you.

Do you realize how sophomoric it sounds for you to be claiming that because you were denied your choice of research topic, because you are a big old free thinking agnostic, that your narrow minded teacher is denying you the grade you have a "RIGHT" to in her course because of your lack of religion? As someone else has said, CA universities are hardly known for being repressive.

As I said, your topic of choice wasn't appropriate, not because you wanted to argue religious issues or put down her religion or flaunt your lack of it, but because at the present time, there is a ton of schlock out on the web about religion, good and bad, and it's easy to obtain and regurgitate this material.

Religion is a very subjective subject, it doesn't have to be brought into every class, and it may not need to be, and that was not the type of research paper she was looking for. SHE gets to decide that, and she made it clear to you. Her lack of emails to you thereafter may simply reflect a very common response to argumentative assertive...er...students. She was ignoring you.

Her argument was not that the topic was too subjective. That is your argument, and your opinion, and dare I say an incorrect one. One needs only to look to the Roman Crusades to see that religion can be a very objective issue when discussing persecution. The teacher has never said that subjectivity of the topic was an issue, not to me or to the committee.

 

[ajkroy]

OP, did you miss an essay? If that grade was factored in as a zero, would that account for the grade you received in the class? Why did you miss the essay?? Every college class I have attended or taught had a syllabus and a list of assignments. It is not the instructor's responsibility to inform you of missing assignments.

I guess I don't understand why you are making this a discrimination case when it appears to be laziness/lack of responsibility/lack of follow up on your part.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

Hard to imagine that an 'A' student, would not know what the required assignments were, and excelled in each and every assignment.

Only hard to imagine if you didn't read or believe what I said about the teacher's lack of structure affecting the class. I got A's in my other two classes, finishing first and second in them. Only one person got an A in this class. One A in a 30 something student class where late work can be turned in at any time...in a college level english class? THAT'S hard to imagine.

 

[HerNameIsNicole]

OP, did you miss an essay? If that grade was factored in as a zero, would that account for the grade you received in the class? Why did you miss the essay?? Every college class I have attended or taught had a syllabus and a list of assignments. It is not the instructor's responsibility to inform you of missing assignments.

I guess I don't understand why you are making this a discrimination case when it appears to be laziness/lack of responsibility/lack of follow up on your part.

I don't know if I missed an essay. She does claim that I did. When I returned to class, a friend passed me a list of assignments that I had missed. The list did not include a 100 point essay, nor did she mention one.

This essay was mentioned in the syllabus, but I have no idea if it was administered. Other assignments were skipped, INCLUDING one essay where she had us turn in a rough draft but never asked for a final.

To answer your question, the 100 point essay should NOT have brought me below an A. She did not factor into my grade my participation points, which are supposed to make up 15% of my total grade. Participation is shown nowhere on the grade report that she provided for me and the school, but it is listed as 15% of the grade on the syllabus. My grade in the class, she calculates, was 86.9%. Those participation points should easily have given me the 3.1% I needed, not to mention a 5 point assignment that she lists as never being turned in, but I have it here, graded...full points, like most everything else I turned in.