Please don't eat me alive with this question

[crazyeights]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mi

I have been divorced now since 3/10. My question is regarding the alimony I receive.

First of all, it is NOT my intent to disrespect the fact that I am recieving alimony by asking this question. I understand that it is my lawful right and it is also to help me get on my feet to be self-supportive as it should be after being in a long term marriage (16 1/2 years) in which we both agreed that I quit my job to be at home with the kids. I appreciate the law in this aspect and I appreciate the fact that my ex is not defiant in any aspect of this order. We went through mediation and were able to agree on just about everything.

I can't help to wonder though that somewhere down the line I may meet someone and maybe want to BE with this someone whether in marriage or otherwise. Personally, I do not want to get married anytime soon.

My question without dancing around it is basically, what if eventually I would like someone to live with me? Do I lose my alimony, therefore, my means to live as I find my way to being self-supportive? I am currently attending classes to attain being self-supportive but I am human also. Right now I cannot afford to live and raise my girls on CS alone. I need the alimony to be able to do both. BUt does this mean I must live a life without personal relationships in order to do so?

Please, don't take this wrong. I understand the moral dilemma here. But I also understand the human aspect of it. Regardless, if I find someone I would like to share my life with someday, I am not looking to have someone else support me while I have my ex "supporting" me". This is simply not the case. I would simply like to be self supportive (while in a new relationship and this does not mean suppoting him in any fashion) while I find my way to truly being self-supportive for the long term. Does this make sense??

My decree states that alimony will be awarded for six years and is modifiable. It does not state anything regarding it ending upon re-marriage or cohabitation. I don't think that either of us thought about including such terms when we came to our agreement then.

Hopefully, after I get through with my schooling, I won't need the full six years of support and he will be better off for it but at the same time, do I resolve myself to the fact that I cannot have a meaningful relationship (fulltime or part time) in the meantime?

I ask this because I would like to start dating. So soon you might ask? Well our marriage was over along time before it was actually over and I went through the detachment well before it happened. I am looking to move on with my life. But how can I do so if I am going to lose my means of living in the meantime? Is this my "sentence"?

Thank you for your honest replies. I will try not to take them personally.

crazyeights

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mi

I have been divorced now since 3/10. My question is regarding the alimony I receive.

First of all, it is NOT my intent to disrespect the fact that I am recieving alimony by asking this question. I understand that it is my lawful right and it is also to help me get on my feet to be self-supportive as it should be after being in a long term marriage (16 1/2 years) in which we both agreed that I quit my job to be at home with the kids. I appreciate the law in this aspect and I appreciate the fact that my ex is not defiant in any aspect of this order. We went through mediation and were able to agree on just about everything.

I can't help to wonder though that somewhere down the line I may meet someone and maybe want to BE with this someone whether in marriage or otherwise. Personally, I do not want to get married anytime soon.

My question without dancing around it is basically, what if eventually I would like someone to live with me? Do I lose my alimony, therefore, my means to live as I find my way to being self-supportive? I am currently attending classes to attain being self-supportive but I am human also. Right now I cannot afford to live and raise my girls on CS alone. I need the alimony to be able to do both. BUt does this mean I must live a life without personal relationships in order to do so?

Please, don't take this wrong. I understand the moral dilemma here. But I also understand the human aspect of it. Regardless, if I find someone I would like to share my life with someday, I am not looking to have someone else support me while I have my ex "supporting" me". This is simply not the case. I would simply like to be self supportive (while in a new relationship and this does not mean suppoting him in any fashion) while I find my way to truly being self-supportive for the long term. Does this make sense??

My decree states that alimony will be awarded for six years and is modifiable. It does not state anything regarding it ending upon re-marriage or cohabitation. I don't think that either of us thought about including such terms when we came to our agreement then.

Hopefully, after I get through with my schooling, I won't need the full six years of support and he will be better off for it but at the same time, do I resolve myself to the fact that I cannot have a meaningful relationship (fulltime or part time) in the meantime?

I ask this because I would like to start dating. So soon you might ask? Well our marriage was over along time before it was actually over and I went through the detachment well before it happened. I am looking to move on with my life. But how can I do so if I am going to lose my means of living in the meantime? Is this my "sentence"?

Thank you for your honest replies. I will try not to take them personally.

crazyeights

Do you have a job?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Mi

I have been divorced now since 3/10. My question is regarding the alimony I receive.

First of all, it is NOT my intent to disrespect the fact that I am recieving alimony by asking this question. I understand that it is my lawful right and it is also to help me get on my feet to be self-supportive as it should be after being in a long term marriage (16 1/2 years) in which we both agreed that I quit my job to be at home with the kids. I appreciate the law in this aspect and I appreciate the fact that my ex is not defiant in any aspect of this order. We went through mediation and were able to agree on just about everything.

I can't help to wonder though that somewhere down the line I may meet someone and maybe want to BE with this someone whether in marriage or otherwise. Personally, I do not want to get married anytime soon.

My question without dancing around it is basically, what if eventually I would like someone to live with me? Do I lose my alimony, therefore, my means to live as I find my way to being self-supportive? I am currently attending classes to attain being self-supportive but I am human also. Right now I cannot afford to live and raise my girls on CS alone. I need the alimony to be able to do both. BUt does this mean I must live a life without personal relationships in order to do so?

Please, don't take this wrong. I understand the moral dilemma here. But I also understand the human aspect of it. Regardless, if I find someone I would like to share my life with someday, I am not looking to have someone else support me while I have my ex "supporting" me". This is simply not the case. I would simply like to be self supportive (while in a new relationship and this does not mean suppoting him in any fashion) while I find my way to truly being self-supportive for the long term. Does this make sense??

My decree states that alimony will be awarded for six years and is modifiable. It does not state anything regarding it ending upon re-marriage or cohabitation. I don't think that either of us thought about including such terms when we came to our agreement then.

Hopefully, after I get through with my schooling, I won't need the full six years of support and he will be better off for it but at the same time, do I resolve myself to the fact that I cannot have a meaningful relationship (fulltime or part time) in the meantime?

I ask this because I would like to start dating. So soon you might ask? Well our marriage was over along time before it was actually over and I went through the detachment well before it happened. I am looking to move on with my life. But how can I do so if I am going to lose my means of living in the meantime? Is this my "sentence"?

Thank you for your honest replies. I will try not to take them personally.

crazyeights

So, are you saying that you believe that you cannot move on and have a meaningful relationship with someone if you are not living with them? Are you saying that you believe that dating means living with someone?

Stop putting the cart before the horse.

Work on getting YOUR life in order so that you are independent and can support yourself and your share of the children's support without the help of anyone else.

In the meantime, if you meet someone that you want to date, feel free to do so, but don't assume that you cannot have a meaningful relationship without living with someone.

Your alimony is modifiable, therefore yes, if you end up living with someone or married to someone your alimony could end. However, the fact that you want to start dating should NOT make you automatically start worrying about something like that. What that tells me, is that you have a wrong perception about what dating means.

 

[mistoffolees]

I ask this because I would like to start dating. So soon you might ask? Well our marriage was over along time before it was actually over and I went through the detachment well before it happened. I am looking to move on with my life. But how can I do so if I am going to lose my means of living in the meantime? Is this my "sentence"?

As Ldij says, dating doesn't mean that you have to move in with someone. In fact, it's traditional to get to know them at least a little bit before moving in with them.

There are two answers to the specific question:

1. If the court order says that alimony ends on cohabitation, then your ex can file for it to end simply by showing that you're living with someone. It doesn't stop automatically, but if that clause is in your decree and ex brings evidence, then alimony WILL end.

2. If there's nothing in your decree saying that it will end on cohabitation, then ex MAY be able to go back and ask for it to end, anyway. It depends on whether your alimony is modifiable or non-modifiable.

You'd be far better off getting a job so you can support yourself and your family after alimony ends than shacking up with the first guy who comes along.

 

[CJane]

Yeah, I'm a bit confused about the whole dating=living with thing too.

My long-time boyfriend and I broke up about 2 months ago. But we were together in a committed relationship for 4 years, and only briefly discussed the idea of living together, and decided against it.

Now, I'll grant you, I'm pretty sure I'm impossible to live with, and cohabitation would be the quickest way to end any relationship I was in. But seriously? You have kids, you're going to school (or at least "taking classes") and trying to get your life and finances in order. The last thing you probably need is to be trying to integrate another person into that mix on a 24/7 basis.

 

[crazyeights]

Thank you to all who have responded.

I am having a hard time responding without getting into all the "drama" that might be involved and I soooo want to stay away from that on this forum....this is why it hard to respond right now.

The details of our agreement helps him and I both given the circumstances. If something is taken away from me, I will not be able to make the house payment and it will affect him. Yes. I have had a job (very low paying but it is a job) since before we actually divorced (did not have one when we were in mediation though). When I got the job I asked him if he wanted to re-figure CS & SS but he said no. You see, I have the house but it is underwater. The SS, CS and my job helps pay for it to not get foreclosed. The mortgage is in his name. I do not ask him for anything extra for the girls. I pay for it all. Camp, glasses, all dr's appointments, maintanence on the house, extra-curriculars, etc, etc, etc. He and I both "know" that by me paying it "all" is him still helping. This is why I don't ask him. I also agreed to take on a bill ($200 a month) that he was ordered to pay to help make up the difference that my job would have made in the final outcome of CS and SS.

If we talk about this generically though, why should he be capable of dating and living with whomever but if I were to do so, I would lose every chance I have at becoming self suffcient? This would mean that I would need to find someone who was capable financially to support me and my girls. I don't want to base my future relationships on that. And if the time came that I chose to live with someone, who knows if in the long run it would work out? Do I give up on having a meaningful relationship and my means of supporting myself until I can actually do it on my own because I fear of losing my alimony? My means of supporting not just myself while I try to educate myself to become self supporting, but my daughters also?

Like I said, I want to stay with the "law" on this, and not get into the drama of my situation. This though may be hard to do to fully get my point across. I do not want to get my cart in front of the horse, nor do I want to shack up. I understand both concepts. (Thank you both).

I have also given him back an IRA that was awarded to me because I felt bad for his situation afterwards. The split left us both broke for awhile.

While this is all fine and dandy, when his "time is up", he will revert back to 100k+ salary. I just want to be left alone in my life with the abilitly to count on the support in which I feel I am entitled (right or wrong) until I can make it on my own AND look forward to possibly developing a loving and supportive relationship. Am I asking too much???

 

[acmb05]

I do agree that you don't have to live with someone just because you are dating them. With that being said we are talking about 6 years here. If in the next couple years she were to get that involved with someone to consider moving in with them I see nothing wrong with doing that. It's not like the OP was checking to see if she could move in with someone next week.

Now if you do move in with someone with your alimony being modifiable your ex could go back to court and ask that it be stopped or reduced.

 

[acmb05]

Thank you to all who have responded.

I am having a hard time responding without getting into all the "drama" that might be involved and I soooo want to stay away from that on this forum....this is why it hard to respond right now.

The details of our agreement helps him and I both given the circumstances. If something is taken away from me, I will not be able to make the house payment and it will affect him. Yes. I have had a job (very low paying but it is a job) since before we actually divorced (did not have one when we were in mediation though). When I got the job I asked him if he wanted to re-figure CS & SS but he said no. You see, I have the house but it is underwater. The SS, CS and my job helps pay for it to not get foreclosed. The mortgage is in his name. I do not ask him for anything extra for the girls. I pay for it all. Camp, glasses, all dr's appointments, maintanence on the house, extra-curriculars, etc, etc, etc. He and I both "know" that by me paying it "all" is him still helping. This is why I don't ask him. I also agreed to take on a bill ($200 a month) that he was ordered to pay to help make up the difference that my job would have made in the final outcome of CS and SS.

If we talk about this generically though, why should he be capable of dating and living with whomever but if I were to do so, I would lose every chance I have at becoming self suffcient? This would mean that I would need to find someone who was capable financially to support me and my girls. I don't want to base my future relationships on that. And if the time came that I chose to live with someone, who knows if in the long run it would work out? Do I give up on having a meaningful relationship and my means of supporting myself until I can actually do it on my own because I fear of losing my alimony? My means of supporting not just myself while I try to educate myself to become self supporting, but my daughters also?

Like I said, I want to stay with the "law" on this, and not get into the drama of my situation. This though may be hard to do to fully get my point across. I do not want to get my cart in front of the horse, nor do I want to shack up. I understand both concepts. (Thank you both).

I have also given him back an IRA that was awarded to me because I felt bad for his situation afterwards. The split left us both broke for awhile.

While this is all fine and dandy, when his "time is up", he will revert back to 100k+ salary. I just want to be left alone in my life with the abilitly to count on the support in which I feel I am entitled (right or wrong) until I can make it on my own AND look forward to possibly developing a loving and supportive relationship. Am I asking too much???

You almost sound like me and my ex. We get along better now than when we were married. Matter of fact she is staying in a spare bedroom in my house now because her last boyfriend(conman) took her for every dime she had and she needed a place to stay until she got back on her feet.

 

[CJane]

I do agree that you don't have to live with someone just because you are dating them. With that being said we are talking about 6 years here. If in the next couple years she were to get that involved with someone to consider moving in with them I see nothing wrong with doing that. It's not like the OP was checking to see if she could move in with someone next week.

Now if you do move in with someone with your alimony being modifiable your ex could go back to court and ask that it be stopped or reduced.

Sure, but it's "only" 6 years. Honestly? Here's what bothers me, and obviously this isn't a legal perspective.

She appears to be very concerned about losing her alimony and "all hope of supporting herself" if she moves in with someone/someone moves in with her. But she's going to lose that alimony in 6 short years, regardless.

And she doesn't want to base a future relationship on whether or not the man can afford to support her and her children if she loses her alimony - and is therefore "no longer able to support herself" -- but she's perfectly happy with her ex-husband supporting her via alimony.

I'm not a big fan of alimony anyway, except in limited duration in "special" cases. But if you're "self-sufficient" enough to be living with someone else - or to be marrying someone else - you're self-sufficient enough to not need alimony. Or, transfer that "duty to support" the the guy you're schtupping.

 

[crazyeights]

Sure, but it's "only" 6 years. Honestly? Here's what bothers me, and obviously this isn't a legal perspective.

She appears to be very concerned about losing her alimony and "all hope of supporting herself" if she moves in with someone/someone moves in with her. But she's going to lose that alimony in 6 short years, regardless.

And she doesn't want to base a future relationship on whether or not the man can afford to support her and her children if she loses her alimony - and is therefore "no longer able to support herself" -- but she's perfectly happy with her ex-husband supporting her via alimony.

I'm not a big fan of alimony anyway, except in limited duration in "special" cases. But if you're "self-sufficient" enough to be living with someone else - or to be marrying someone else - you're self-sufficient enough to not need alimony. Or, transfer that "duty to support" the the guy you're schtupping.

(First BOLD...yes, as a woman who had a career that started out at $8 an hour (in 1987) who could now be making $24 an hour (I left at $15 an hour in 1993), this is a concern. I use to work for Dr's who were the heads of departments at local universities. No small time game here. I tried to get back into "my field" for months and months to no avail (people are losing their insurance, Dr's are not hiring because of it).

(Second bold)....I supported him through his associates, bachelors AND masters degree, all the while he was having online relationships with others. Again, I don't want to go into the drama but his online relationships stemed from us having to much going on at one time...getting married, his school and yes he worked fulltime at the same time, having children right away, etc etc etc. We did things wrong and we are paying for it now. Actually, way back then, we had the money so that he didnt have to work but could concentrate on school alone. I actually begged him to do so but he wouldn't, he wouldn't have no part of it. Again, like I said, I don't want to get into the drama, but at the same time I knew I wiould have to deal with the moral issues that arose on this forum....

(Third bold) What in your mind are "special cases"? The law allows (here in MI anyways) for those who were in long term marriages, to live in the standards that they were accustomed. This though is certainly not my case nor have I fought for it on a long term basis. I just want to be able to raise my girls in a manner thay they "should have known or realized" before the divorce. I am very content with whatever happens to me eventually. With that said though, in the meantime, I am a real person believe it or not and after all I've been through, I deserve something don't I? If anything I desrve a chance, at life and a loving relationship. I'm 47 years old. It's not the end of the world for me I know...but geez o peets!!!!

(Fourth Bold)... But I am not self suffcient and I don't know how long it will take me to get there. I wil get through school but I will need to find a job eventually afterwards. In the meantime I have two girls to raise and they are going through their formable years. I would much rather be not working and just going to school so that I can be there for them more. My girls are honor students, they both hold above a 3.9+. BUT they have had issues as of late, regular teen stuff.....

No offence but I feel like I'm an getting pulled into the drama side of it all. What it boils down to is that I never had the support that one gets in a relationship (and maybe he did not either given the situation) and if I find it one day then I want to know what my consequences are. It's that plain and simple.

I will not in the long run, neglect my girls. There will be a balance just has it's always been. I can only do the best I can at the moment which has been ok so far.'

 

[Proserpina]

Is there any reason why Dad couldn't have custody of the girls - he seems to be the more financially stable at the moment - while you're at school?

 

[crazyeights]

Dad loves his girls but he doesn't know what to do with then at this time in their lives. Emotionally he is lost and screams and yells at them. This is not completely his fault though as he is a man and grew up without a mother. (Sorry guys). Besides, my girls would hate me for the rest of my life if I would suggest something like this. Just because he didn't want to make a go at our relationship does not mean that I should abolish (and what may feel to my girls as abandoment) my relationship with my girls. I raised them virtually alone. Their dad wouldn't even take vacation with us. In all our years, he took vacation with us three times. I remember a few years that he gave up MANY vacation days to his employer for non use. This is not a lie. All the other years, he was too busy with school etc. This in itself is understandable but at the same time, I will NOT lose my girls nor their trust in me to take care of them and be their MOM. Sounds easy but it isn't. Dad doesn't understand sometimes and can be verbally abusive because of it. His dad was verbally abusive to him.....this is another story.

 

[stealth2]

I ask this because I would like to start dating. So soon you might ask? Well our marriage was over along time before it was actually over and I went through the detachment well before it happened. I am looking to move on with my life. But how can I do so if I am going to lose my means of living in the meantime? Is this my "sentence"?

Not going to get into the alimony discussion, but I need to comment on this. Perhaps you are ready to move on with your life because your marriage was over long ago. But your children's family was NOT over long ago. Perhaps it would be wise for you to focus on their need to adjust to their new reality, instead of your need to "move on".

 

[nextwife]

I don't get why an adult woman who already had some career training needs SIX years of being supported to move to independence. I see nieces and friend's kids finishing college and starting careers from scratch in four years. And some of those are only getting minimal support.

If self support is important to someone, they will put completion of that goal ahead of theoretical fantasies about moving in with someone they have not even met. Even ahead of someone they HAVE met.

And, same as CJane, what is the rush to move in with someone? Especially if one has kids living with them? I sure wouldn't put anyone under the same roof as my child until I'd known them very well and for a long time, if, heaven forbid, something ever happened to mt husband. Who, BTW, I knew five years before we got engaged and then cohabitated. A real engagement, not a "fiance" like they mean today.

 

[stealth2]

I don't get why an adult woman who already had some career training needs SIX years of being supported to move to independence. I see nieces and friend's kids finishing college and starting careers from scratch in four years. And some of those are only getting minimal support.

If self support is important to someone, they will put completion of that goal ahead of theoretical fantasies about moving in with someone they have not even met. Even ahead of someone they HAVE met.

And, same as CJane, what is the rush to move in with someone? Especially if one has kids living with them? I sure wouldn't put anyone under the same roof as my child until I'd known them very well and for a long time, if, heaven forbid, something ever happened to mt husband. Who, BTW, I knew five years before we got engaged and then cohabitated. A real engagement, not a "fiance" like they mean today.

Because some PEOPLE (it is not just women) are unable to conceive of life on their own. They NEED a partner to validate themselves.