Long Distance Parenting Questions

[2isbetter]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

Child is 11 months, currently nothing is established in court, nothing has been filed to this point, father not on BC. I was setting up visits in my home, but it was turning into a war everytime to set them up. Got advice here that legally I did not have to do this. So after his last visit, he sent me an email to set up another visit, I told him no and gave him two choices. Either we come up with an agreement and file it or he just files in court to establish his rights.

He does not want to go to court(keeps saying this over and over), so we are trying to hash out something. Everything is an argument, so not sure it is going to happen, but either way I want an idea of what most likely would occur with long distance.

I have searched high and low for long distances plans online, not finding much. Can anybody point me to some?

Who will have to pay for cost of travel? Here is the thing, we were engaged, I have another child, and went to court for a move away. It was granted, but Judge put in many stipulations, this father was there, and took part in the agreement that was made and it is on court record that he agreed to the stipulations. Well he refused after court to do the stipulations, and just wanted me to ignore it and move to his state anyway's. This eventually led to the engagement being called off.

One of the stipulations was that he was to do everything possible to find employment here and he had to prove to the court that he did try. As I said he did nothing, he has no proof of looking for employment, which made my move away void. Does this make it to where he caused the distance?

He wants to come EOW to my state, but he wants me to pay half of his gas and hotel. Plus he wants to fly the child to him and me to pay half of that during holiday and summer. I can see paying half for the holiday and summer, but it is gonna get real expensive paying twice a month for just Sat overnight till Sun. Plus he is adding in Fri hotel, as he is taking 2 days to drive here and wants me to pay half of his Fri hotel bill, even though he won't even have the child.

He is living in the 3rd state since child was born, and this 3rd state according to him will only be for another 6 months, and then he mentioned living in a total different state after that. Right now he has a 15 hour drive, which could increase or decrease, cause he is moving all over the place.

I know I am just rambling, but I am just so confused and lost on what a court might possibly do with the cost of travel, how often for that travel and with him moving around so often. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[WittyUserName]

I found a good basic plan on the SPARC site, deltabravo.net.
Also, I found this for Michigan:

http://www.courts.michigan.gov/scao/resources/publications/manuals/focb/pt_gdlns.pdf

I didn't go through all 40-odd pages, but there was a heading for Special considerations that included Long-distance.

Hope this helps!

 

[2isbetter]

I appreciate that, but I should have been more specific. I was looking for something that was geared for younger children. The Mi one says that age will be considered, but has no example plan for a younger child. So I am assuming that age might matter in long distance for younger. It also says that person who caused distance pays for transportation, which was my other question.

Anybody know of any example plans for young children?

Based on what I said in my the other post, who caused the distance?

If that is both, cause distance was always there, does his hotel and gas count. Would I have to pay half of these?

Based on 15 hours away and he has lived in 3 states since child was born and says he will be moving again in about 6 months, What is the likelyhood of a Judge ordering EOW?

So far the states have been 24 hours, 10 hours and 15 hours away. If I had to meet him half way EOW or pay half his gas and hotel or even half a plane ticket, this to me seems excessive. I am trying to do what is right, I know this mess is mine, but I can't afford to do this EOW, plus for the long breaks in the year to.

 

[LdiJ]

I appreciate that, but I should have been more specific. I was looking for something that was geared for younger children. The Mi one says that age will be considered, but has no example plan for a younger child. So I am assuming that age might matter in long distance for younger. It also says that person who caused distance pays for transportation, which was my other question.

Anybody know of any example plans for young children?

Based on what I said in my the other post, who caused the distance?

If that is both, cause distance was always there, does his hotel and gas count. Would I have to pay half of these?

Based on 15 hours away and he has lived in 3 states since child was born and says he will be moving again in about 6 months, What is the likelyhood of a Judge ordering EOW?

So far the states have been 24 hours, 10 hours and 15 hours away. If I had to meet him half way EOW or pay half his gas and hotel or even half a plane ticket, this to me seems excessive. I am trying to do what is right, I know this mess is mine, but I can't afford to do this EOW, plus for the long breaks in the year to.

The judge isn't going to order every other weekend unless dad is willing to cover all of that cost himself. A judge might order a cp to share that cost if the cp were wealthy, but other than that, no, its not going to happen because its not reasonable, economically.

However, the judge would likely consider that neither of you created the distance, and that therefore transportation for a normal long distance schedule would be shared. There is a chance that you could prevail on dad providing the transportation, since dad did agree to do his best to move there, then changed his mind, but the odds are not strongly in your favor.

Dad will likely be required to visit in your state at first...maybe even until the child is 2 or 3. However dad would eventually get 4-6 visits a year where dad would have to pay the cost of collecting the child, and you would have to pay the costs of retrieving the child.

My state guidelines (IN) call for visitation in the child's home community until the child is 3, then 6 one week visits per year in the ncp's home community until the child starts school, and then every other major school holiday and 7 weeks in the summer in the ncp's community after that.

 

[2isbetter]

Thanks to both of you for your help. Gonna take the IN and the Deltabravo plans, and the Mi plans I know some people have(they all have older kids), and make my own to send him.

I will just plan that a Judge will say neither of us created the distance, and both have to pay for half. But I am not going to agree to do EOW and pay half. If he wants that he can pay that cost. Maybe I will offer to meet halfway once every other month or go by the 4 day weekends that a school does a year.

Again thanks, and I am sure I will be back with more questions.

 

[milspecgirl]

a judge is not going to order eow when a parent lives that far away. It is not in the child's best interest to be in a car or plane that often for that long. Do not agree to eow unless the ncp is within 200 miles or so.

 

[2isbetter]

I don't know what to do next with this. First he didn't bother to see the child for 8 months, then he starts calling and demanding when he wants to see him. When it conflicted with plans I already had, he would get mad and make more demands.

We managed to set up 2 visits since Aug, however he kept changing times or weekends. The visits have been in my home, which is fine for now, since he needs to get to know the child. But he acts as if he has no intention of ever doing visits outside of my home, unless I bring the child to him and stay there to. I've asked since Aug for him to make a detailed plan and file it, I've saved every email.

I've told him over and over, make the plan, file it and he can start having visits. He ignores anything I say, just keeps making demands. Starts spouting he knows Mi law, he has rights and they(his parents and him)know Mi laws about grandparents rights. He demands I pay for half his costs to come visit, he demands I take the child 1300 miles to see his family, he demands I meet him halfway or that I go all the way and stay with him, while he visits with child.

He is emailing with threats and demands, sending me flowers and cards. He is also sending stuff to my child that is not his. I can't afford at this time the fees to file myself, since I have paid 100% for the child since day 1. He claims he is sending me cash and checks in these cards, which he is not. If he took the money he is spending sending me and my other child all these cards and gifts, he wouuld have money to file or to pay for the child. It's starting to get a bit creepy.

I have no problem paying half of transportation for visits or filing, but with him paying no CS at this time, I have nothing extra to pay any of this. I have a decent full time job, but I have started a 2nd contingent job, just to cover costs of medical, medical premimums and childcare.

I don't want to do anything that will go against me if this does goes to court. But this is getting old and he obviously has no intention of filing. Can I just start ignoring his emails?

I get that I had a child with him, but just how much of this is just my responsibility to do?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

what county are you in?

FYI - without there being an existing LONG TERM relationship with the grandparents, they will NOT prevail.

No judge will order EOW in a long distance plan unless the NCP does them all in the child's community. Generally, I could see a judge ordering something more in line with an earlier suggestion of 6 one-week periods with each parent responsible for the pickup of the child.

 

[LdiJ]

what county are you in?

FYI - without there being an existing LONG TERM relationship with the grandparents, they will NOT prevail.

No judge will order EOW in a long distance plan unless the NCP does them all in the child's community. Generally, I could see a judge ordering something more in line with an earlier suggestion of 6 one-week periods with each parent responsible for the pickup of the child.

Actually, MI grandparents would not prevail unless 1) there was a long term existing relationship, and 2) dad was completely out of the picture.

I suggest that you go ahead and file for child support via FOC. That will likely cause him to get his act together and file for a parenting schedule.

You also simply have to stop listening to dad.

 

[CSO286]

You also simply have to stop listening to dad.

Amen.....As previously posted by myself and many other much wiser people here:


NEVER EVER EVER take legal advice from your ex, or your ex's family, friends or attorney.

Ignore him when he starts spouting off this law or that law. Go to your local libray, go online to your state's statutes, learn them for yourself.

Go throguh FOC and get a very detailed parenting plan established. One that will delineate exactly who is responsible for what costs, when, where and how often visitation/parenting time is to occur. Then stick to your court order.

As young as the child is, and given the distance, most of those visits should occur in the child's community until the child is older.

 

[2isbetter]

2. The grandchild was born out-of-wedlock and the parents are not living
together. However, this only applies, to grandparents of the alleged father
if he has been declared legally to be the father of the child by a proper
court proceeding and the child's father provides child support in
accordance with his ability to provide support or care for his child.

So this concerns me, cause if paternity and CS get established, then they can file. While they have never even seen the child, they live in another state, and the father lives in a different state, and I live in a different state then all. So this concerns me, that with the 2 different states, father and I live in, his time will be limited, and with grandparents living in a total different state, they could end up with time themselves to.

Another reason I am not so eager to filing this myself. I know for fact in my court, they would hear the case if the grandparents filed. They hear anything filed. It would be costly to have a lawyer first for his rights and then his parents filing to.

 

[LdiJ]

2. The grandchild was born out-of-wedlock and the parents are not living
together. However, this only applies, to grandparents of the alleged father
if he has been declared legally to be the father of the child by a proper
court proceeding and the child's father provides child support in
accordance with his ability to provide support or care for his child.

So this concerns me, cause if paternity and CS get established, then they can file. While they have never even seen the child, they live in another state, and the father lives in a different state, and I live in a different state then all. So this concerns me, that with the 2 different states, father and I live in, his time will be limited, and with grandparents living in a total different state, they could end up with time themselves to.

Another reason I am not so eager to filing this myself. I know for fact in my court, they would hear the case if the grandparents filed. They hear anything filed. It would be costly to have a lawyer first for his rights and then his parents filing to.

Honestly there is virtually no chance of them winning a case. They have no ongoing relationship with the child, and their son is living and can facilitate visitation on his own time.

 

[2isbetter]

Maybe I am reading to much into the law, but I thought the point of this, was for paternal grandparents, when the father does not facilitate his visitation.

If a grandparent falls into any of the above categories and has been denied visitation, they would have a right to bring an action in the court that has heard a prior action (such as a divorce or paternity action).

To me that states they only have to fall into one of the categories.

I'm not listening to the ex on laws, he has them screwed up anyhow. But I am listening to his threats. He's made it clear, that if I go legally after CS, he will make this cost me as much as he can. He wants me to just give him visitation, pay for his costs of that with no CS.

Reading the grandparent law, if I go after CS, paternity will be established and so will CS. Which then allows the grandparents to file. I am not seeing where they can't, it just say's any of the above.

It doesn't mean they will get any, or even get more then 5 minutes in court, but I will still have to pay for a lawyer on both. That is his point, to cost me. Then he will turn around and file for custody and visitation.

So what I am not seeing is why should I rush this and file for him? If he wants to file so be it. But until he does, do I need to reply to his emails concerning anything on visitation? I will continue to answer any parts where he asks how the child is, but I am sick of the back on forth on this other. Don't want to have to do it, if I don't have to.

 

[LdiJ]

Maybe I am reading to much into the law, but I thought the point of this, was for paternal grandparents, when the father does not facilitate his visitation.



To me that states they only have to fall into one of the categories.

I'm not listening to the ex on laws, he has them screwed up anyhow. But I am listening to his threats. He's made it clear, that if I go legally after CS, he will make this cost me as much as he can. He wants me to just give him visitation, pay for his costs of that with no CS.

Reading the grandparent law, if I go after CS, paternity will be established and so will CS. Which then allows the grandparents to file. I am not seeing where they can't, it just say's any of the above.

It doesn't mean they will get any, or even get more then 5 minutes in court, but I will still have to pay for a lawyer on both. That is his point, to cost me. Then he will turn around and file for custody and visitation.

So what I am not seeing is why should I rush this and file for him? If he wants to file so be it. But until he does, do I need to reply to his emails concerning anything on visitation? I will continue to answer any parts where he asks how the child is, but I am sick of the back on forth on this other. Don't want to have to do it, if I don't have to.

Well, you honestly don't have to go ahead and file. You can simply tell dad that he is sol until he files to establish things legally.

 

[SESmama]

OP - this may help

(b) In order to give deference to the decisions of fit
7 parents, it is presumed in a proceeding under this subsection that
8 a fit parent's decision to deny grandparenting time does not create
9 a substantial risk of harm to the child's mental, physical, or
10 emotional health. To rebut the presumption created in this
11 subdivision, a grandparent filing a complaint or motion under this
12 section must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the
13 parent's decision to deny grandparenting time creates a substantial
14 risk of harm to the child's mental, physical, or emotional health.
15 If the grandparent does not overcome the presumption, the court
16 shall dismiss the complaint or deny the motion.

This was found below where you got yours
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/billintroduced/House/pdf/2009-HIB-4197.pdf