Can I limit 50/50 extracurricular expenses

[chicepi]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My ex and I have been divorced for 5 years. We have 2 children now 15 & 10. We originally agreed to a standard Shared Parenting Plan. We lived in the same area so she would have them 5 days out of the week and I would have them 5 days out of the following week (majority of the time more). In the shared parenting plan I have to pay $377.00 per month per child which I do. I am required to carry the medical insurance and then we split equally the uncovered expenses. We split equally all school and extracurricular expenses. This had worked fine as the children's school and extracurricular expenses were the same as before we were divcorced. Last June after a year long court battle she moved here and the children to Florida. There is a new visitation order in effect since the move that the children are here once a month for at least a weekend and my ex is responsible for all travel expenses. That was her offer so that I would allow her to move. Since she moved she has began just sending me these receipts and uncancelled checks and cash receipts for activites and expenses I have never agreed to and told I have to pay half. She is signing them up for all these arbitrary activites, jet ski lessons, lacrosse etc. Also she is sending me receipts for new equipment at the start of every activity. For example I know as well as anyone my children don't need a new set of cleats every 6 weeks when a new session starts or a new soccer ball for every session. She knew she couldn't get away with this before because I could see that the cleats they had fit just fine and were in good shape.

These expenses are in excess of $300.00 per month and I just can't afford it my questions are...
1.) Am I in my rights to reguire she ask for my agreement prior to signing them up for anything and if I don't agree and can't afford it tell her that up front and if she decides to do it it is at her expense.

2.) Am I in my rights to require that she send me copies of the cancelled checks (anyone can write a check and not pay it, which she would do) and that I will not except cash receipts as proof (anyone can buy a receipt book at Staples)

3.) Any suggestions on anything I can to limit the "new" equipment she purchases every other week? I beleive she is purchasing it sending me the receipts and then taking it back.

Also please note she has not abided by and sent the children 5 out of the past 8 months she was ordered to, because she can't afford it or because I did not reimburse her for all the expenses for that month yet. Can she do that when there are no conditions in the new visitation order that she is responsible for the travel expenses?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I think your biggest problem is she appears to be trying to "justify" not paying to send kids to see you. It also appears she is going to make you finance that one way or another. I would not personally pay any receipt I do not feel is substantiated. I would also not expect to see my kids without court intervention. Has your order been made into a national order? My understanding is it needs to be or it isn't enforceable across state lines.

 

[Ohiogal]

I think your biggest problem is she appears to be trying to "justify" not paying to send kids to see you. It also appears she is going to make you finance that one way or another. I would not personally pay any receipt I do not feel is substantiated. I would also not expect to see my kids without court intervention. Has your order been made into a national order? My understanding is it needs to be or it isn't enforceable across state lines.

You would be wrong. You need to shut up and NOT give advice.

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

My ex and I have been divorced for 5 years. We have 2 children now 15 & 10. We originally agreed to a standard Shared Parenting Plan. We lived in the same area so she would have them 5 days out of the week and I would have them 5 days out of the following week (majority of the time more). In the shared parenting plan I have to pay $377.00 per month per child which I do. I am required to carry the medical insurance and then we split equally the uncovered expenses. We split equally all school and extracurricular expenses. This had worked fine as the children's school and extracurricular expenses were the same as before we were divcorced. Last June after a year long court battle she moved here and the children to Florida. There is a new visitation order in effect since the move that the children are here once a month for at least a weekend and my ex is responsible for all travel expenses. That was her offer so that I would allow her to move. Since she moved she has began just sending me these receipts and uncancelled checks and cash receipts for activites and expenses I have never agreed to and told I have to pay half. She is signing them up for all these arbitrary activites, jet ski lessons, lacrosse etc. Also she is sending me receipts for new equipment at the start of every activity. For example I know as well as anyone my children don't need a new set of cleats every 6 weeks when a new session starts or a new soccer ball for every session. She knew she couldn't get away with this before because I could see that the cleats they had fit just fine and were in good shape.

These expenses are in excess of $300.00 per month and I just can't afford it my questions are...
1.) Am I in my rights to reguire she ask for my agreement prior to signing them up for anything and if I don't agree and can't afford it tell her that up front and if she decides to do it it is at her expense.

2.) Am I in my rights to require that she send me copies of the cancelled checks (anyone can write a check and not pay it, which she would do) and that I will not except cash receipts as proof (anyone can buy a receipt book at Staples)

3.) Any suggestions on anything I can to limit the "new" equipment she purchases every other week? I beleive she is purchasing it sending me the receipts and then taking it back.

Also please note she has not abided by and sent the children 5 out of the past 8 months she was ordered to, because she can't afford it or because I did not reimburse her for all the expenses for that month yet. Can she do that when there are no conditions in the new visitation order that she is responsible for the travel expenses?

Thanks in advance!!

So what does your current order state regarding extracurriculars. If nothing, then the prior order controls which means you pay 50%. if you disagree you can fight it in court. If she is returning items, prove it. Her sending the children for visitation is separate for extra curricular activities and you need to file contempt for each instance that she has NOT abided by the court order. Whether she sends the children is separate from whether you are paying child support OR paying extracurricular activities or anything else.

 

[mistoffolees]

So what does your current order state regarding extracurriculars. If nothing, then the prior order controls which means you pay 50%.

In particular, look for wording in the orders requiring that both parties agree to extracurriculars before you have to pay.

if you disagree you can fight it in court. If she is returning items, prove it. Her sending the children for visitation is separate for extra curricular activities and you need to file contempt for each instance that she has NOT abided by the court order. Whether she sends the children is separate from whether you are paying child support OR paying extracurricular activities or anything else.

 

[chicepi]

Actually the current order states...

"The sharing of expenses set forth in the Shared Parenting Plan shall be modified so that Father is responsible for one half of medical, dental, orthodontic, prescription, etc., expenses and agreed extracurricular expenses only."

I actually never noticed that change before. I was content following the original agreement and just concerned with my visitation so I could see my kids. So based on that she has to get my agreement before she can sign up or purchase anything for extra curricular activities and expect me to pay 1/2...correct? Also this new modification doesn't state school expenses as the original did, so techinically I am not responsible for those either?

I am not asking so that I can get out of everything to support my children, I am more than willing to do that. I just want to know my rights when all the sudden these expenses have tripled since when we were married, then divorced and now she is not following the order to send my children so I can see them. I don't want to keep sending her all this money thinking I am doing what is right following the order and she feels she doesn't have to follow through on her end.

Also one replier stated I file a contempt charge for each visitation she has missed. Am I going to have to foot the expenses to fly down there for these, or will she have to come back here?

Thanks again!!!

 

[Ohiogal]

Actually the current order states...

"The sharing of expenses set forth in the Shared Parenting Plan shall be modified so that Father is responsible for one half of medical, dental, orthodontic, prescription, etc., expenses and agreed extracurricular expenses only."

I actually never noticed that change before. I was content following the original agreement and just concerned with my visitation so I could see my kids. So based on that she has to get my agreement before she can sign up or purchase anything for extra curricular activities and expect me to pay 1/2...correct? Also this new modification doesn't state school expenses as the original did, so techinically I am not responsible for those either?

I am not asking so that I can get out of everything to support my children, I am more than willing to do that. I just want to know my rights when all the sudden these expenses have tripled since when we were married, then divorced and now she is not following the order to send my children so I can see them. I don't want to keep sending her all this money thinking I am doing what is right following the order and she feels she doesn't have to follow through on her end.

Also one replier stated I file a contempt charge for each visitation she has missed. Am I going to have to foot the expenses to fly down there for these, or will she have to come back here?

Thanks again!!!

Follow the order. If Ohio is where the order was given, then FILE in the Ohio court that made the order. You only have to pay AGREED extracurricular expenses per that wording.

 

[mistoffolees]

Actually the current order states...

"The sharing of expenses set forth in the Shared Parenting Plan shall be modified so that Father is responsible for one half of medical, dental, orthodontic, prescription, etc., expenses and agreed extracurricular expenses only."

Then you're in luck. If you didn't agree to it, you don't have to pay.

I actually never noticed that change before. I was content following the original agreement and just concerned with my visitation so I could see my kids. So based on that she has to get my agreement before she can sign up or purchase anything for extra curricular activities and expect me to pay 1/2...correct? Also this new modification doesn't state school expenses as the original did, so techinically I am not responsible for those either?

Nope. If it's not in the order, you're not required to pay. You could, of course, voluntarily choose to help with school expenses.

Also one replier stated I file a contempt charge for each visitation she has missed. Am I going to have to foot the expenses to fly down there for these, or will she have to come back here?

Normally, you have to file wherever the original order was from. There are times when jurisdiction could be changed, but that adds steps and expense.

You can either fly down and do it yourself or hire a local attorney to do it. You can also ask the court to order her to pay your expenses if she's in contempt. They might not do it the first time, but if it becomes a habit, there's a better chance.

 

[JQ Citizen]

Extracurricular activities are great, but they are not required.

With each and every request for 50/50 payment send her an email describing you cannot afford to have your child participate. If she asks for sign-up fees, uniforms, shoes, rackets, gloves, etc. Simply state you cannot afford it.

As to visitation, it is a different story, please send an email requesting visitation ask when she plans to travel your kids to you, as she previously agreed.


Extracurriculars are great, but parenting is what it is all about. If you are not getting to see your kids no matter what, that is the issue.
Demand to see your kids, record the dates, and communication.
Do not voluntarily give up seeing your kids unless you want to. Failed to pay child support? Still attempt to see your kids, your not renting them you are raising them.

 

[stealth2]

Extracurricular activities are great, but they are not required.

With each and every request for 50/50 payment send her an email describing you cannot afford to have your child participate. If she asks for sign-up fees, uniforms, shoes, rackets, gloves, etc. Simply state you cannot afford it.

I beg to differ. It makes no sense to deprive the kids of activities in which they have been participating all along, just because Mom's trying to get one over. It should not be an "all or nothing" situation. OP seems like a reasonable fellow.

I would suggest being reasonable. If they've played soccer all along, they will need new cleats, etc. at times. Depending on the rigor with which they play (and that is something Dad should know) and how quickly their feet grow, those expenses may occur more or less frequently. I can say that I buy new cleats for my field hockey player yearly (or more often if her foot grows), as well as indoor shoes for winter indoor hockey. New sticks (indoor & outdoor) - yearly. Mouth guard, gloves, socks, shin guards, training equipment - as needed.

I can see the 15yo being rougher on cleats than the 10yo. Also, wearing them on asphalt/concrete will wear them out more quickly. Certainly, I'd look at receipts to see if the sizes are different, if new cleats are being bought every six weeks. I'd also look at what sort are being purchased - if she's buying cheaper gear, it's going to wear out more quickly than if a bit extra is spent on quality equipment.

As for "new" activities... it's not unreasonable that the kids will want to participate in something more in keeping with the different lifestyle of living closer to the ocean than one would in OH. Again - it doesn't need to be an all or nothing situation - Talk to your kids and see what they're really interested in doing, and go from there.

 

[nextwife]

I beg to differ. It makes no sense to deprive the kids of activities in which they have been participating all along, just because Mom's trying to get one over. It should not be an "all or nothing" situation. OP seems like a reasonable fellow.

I would suggest being reasonable. If they've played soccer all along, they will need new cleats, etc. at times. Depending on the rigor with which they play (and that is something Dad should know) and how quickly their feet grow, those expenses may occur more or less frequently. I can say that I buy new cleats for my field hockey player yearly (or more often if her foot grows), as well as indoor shoes for winter indoor hockey. New sticks (indoor & outdoor) - yearly. Mouth guard, gloves, socks, shin guards, training equipment - as needed.

I can see the 15yo being rougher on cleats than the 10yo. Also, wearing them on asphalt/concrete will wear them out more quickly. Certainly, I'd look at receipts to see if the sizes are different, if new cleats are being bought every six weeks. I'd also look at what sort are being purchased - if she's buying cheaper gear, it's going to wear out more quickly than if a bit extra is spent on quality equipment.

As for "new" activities... it's not unreasonable that the kids will want to participate in something more in keeping with the different lifestyle of living closer to the ocean than one would in OH. Again - it doesn't need to be an all or nothing situation - Talk to your kids and see what they're really interested in doing, and go from there.

I DO think it unreasonable for children to believe they are entitled to whatever activity they want, when ever they want it. I know a number of parents who have a "two activities at a time" limit, AND, for new activities, they often buy used equipment, until they know their kid will stick with it. Because there often is STILL band, school stuff, maybe religious school stuff, responsibilities at home, and schoolwork on top of the two activities.

 

[mistoffolees]

I DO think it unreasonable for children to believe they are entitled to whatever activity they want, when ever they want it. I know a number of parents who have a "two activities at a time" limit, AND, for new activities, they often buy used equipment, until they know their kid will stick with it. Because there often is STILL band, school stuff, maybe religious school stuff, responsibilities at home, and schoolwork on top of the two activities.

Of course. But there's plenty of middle ground.

I doesn't hurt to see if the kids are really interested in an activity. If it were something that really means a lot to the kids, he may be more willing to pay the extra than if the kids are doing it just because their friend does it.

I really think this one requires a case by case evaluation. Remind Mom that the court order requires you to pay only the things you've agreed to, so she really ought to discuss activities with you before signing up for them - unless she wants the entire bill. And then figure out what is reasonable.

I'm certainly not going to say if 1 activity a week is reasonable or 10. It depends on the family's finances, kid's proclivities, and school performance (as well, as course, as parent's ability to juggle multiple activities). The parents really need to discuss it. If they're unable to do that, then OP has the right to choose which ones he wants to pay for - even if ex won't discuss it.

 

[LdiJ]

There is one thing that I would like the OP to think about and be cautious about in this whole situation. It appears that you currently pay child support of 377.00 per child (unusual order) and was based on your previous shared parenting situation.

It doesn't appear that child support changed when the timeshare changed. Mom could take you back to court at any time for a child support modification, and likely will if she is struggling and has to go back to court anyway.

So, you might want to google an online child support calculator for Ohio and run some numbers to try to get a picture of where you might be with child support.

If there would be any significant increase, you might want to be clever and informally agree to pay for half the transportation costs for visitation, to ensure that you get to see your children, rather than take mom to court for contempt. If what you believe is true, that might stop a lot of mom's shenanigans, and if it doesn't, you still have the option of filing for contempt.

 

[RRevak]

I DO think it unreasonable for children to believe they are entitled to whatever activity they want, when ever they want it. I know a number of parents who have a "two activities at a time" limit, AND, for new activities, they often buy used equipment, until they know their kid will stick with it. Because there often is STILL band, school stuff, maybe religious school stuff, responsibilities at home, and schoolwork on top of the two activities.

I wholeheartedly agree. Kids need to understand how much money extracurricular activities can cost and that the money to pay for them doesn't come from the sky. Limiting them to one or two activities and giving them an understanding of the cost involved helps them to decide better which activity means more to them.
And new cleats every 6 weeks???! Thats just crazy even IF they're hard on them and even IF their feet grow. The ONLY activity I know of that requires new footwear in that time frame is ballet. And that ONLY applies if one is dancing full time at an advanced level. (I myself used to require a new pair of pointes every 4-5wks and that was even buying them 2 pairs at a time)

 

[mistoffolees]

I wholeheartedly agree. Kids need to understand how much money extracurricular activities can cost and that the money to pay for them doesn't come from the sky. Limiting them to one or two activities and giving them an understanding of the cost involved helps them to decide better which activity means more to them.

I really wish people would stop trying to make decisions that are not theirs to make.

That may be fine FOR YOU. And it would be perfectly OK to suggest that OP consider limiting activities. But please stop telling people how many activities they should put their kids in.

My daughter has 6 major activities, not counting school plays and things like that. She appreciates it, does well in all of them, and keeps honor roll grades. It's certainly NOT OK for you to determine that 1 or 2 activities is all that a child should have.