Unpaid Internships

[Wayner]

California

Recently I offered an unpaid internship program that has similar training to a vocational school which I meant to benefit the youngsters who has never worked in the industry before and has no job experience. I have the intern signed an agreement stating that this is for her benefit and she will not be paid during this internship period of 14 days. The intern is 22 and was fully aware that she will not get paid for 2 weeks (period of 14 days) and the agreement has clearly indicated her responsibilities and what she will be learning. A supervisor was also assigned to closely monitor her performance and coach her when needed. There was never a promise of a job upon the completion of this internship. Yet about 10 days into the internship period this intern started to develop an altitude problem and I could not tolerate insubordination so I terminated her internship and she then submitted a claim to the labor board stating that I own her wages for those hours she has put in and I have exploited her for free labor. Is the agreement that she signed be enough to fight this claim ? Please advise or share your thoughts.

 

[cbg]

Not even close. There are strict rules about when an internship can be unpaid and you didn't follow any of them.

You owe her the money. Pay up.

 

[Wayner]

if you are referring to the 11 different criteria which DLSE uses to judge on the validity of the unpaid internship or trainee program - I have carefully reviewed and stated in my agreement contract with her on how the internship program would have fulfilled or met with the criteria and she is fully aware of it.

 

[HomeGuru]

if you are referring to the 11 different criteria which DLSE uses to judge on the validity of the unpaid internship or trainee program - I have carefully reviewed and stated in my agreement contract with her on how the internship program would have fulfilled or met with the criteria and she is fully aware of it.

**A: then did you not answer your own question then?

 

[swalsh411]

So you respond that this was a valid unpaid internship and present your evidence that she agreed to it.

 

[HomeGuru]

So you respond that this was a valid unpaid internship and present your evidence that she agreed to it.

**A: agreed as the best way to resolve.

 

[cbg]

Did your company derive any benefit at all from the work she did? If she had not been doing it, would someone else have had to? Or was every minute of it busywork?

 

[Wayner]

So far she has been fabricating a story that we have exploited her and in spite of the agreement she signed (which she did not present to the labor board) she says that internship is illegal (according to her limited understanding). The internship training is for 2 weeks and if she was looking for a job that pays then she should not have gone through (but she has no real marketing skills and Mcdonald is not even hiring her) but even after she has signed the agreement she went through for 10 days. Then when she was scolded for having a bad altitude to the customer and trying to take company property (confidential document) by force she was fired. She refused to leave the premise and we had to call to police to remove her.

And at the time when she was working as an intern we also have other part time workers on the payroll. One of them even tried to train her on some design work she has no experience with. None of her design work was actually used at all as they are not professional enough to be used. At times the time it takes to coach and supervise her actually impede our daily operation. Hence we don't derive any immediate benefit from her time as an intern.

 

[cbg]

You did not answer my question, and I asked it for a very specific reason.

Did the work that she did, benefit the company in any way? Would someone else have had to do that work, if she had not?

I didn't ask you had any *immediate* benefit. I asked if you had ANY benefit. The fact that you word it that way, implies that there is ultimately some benefit to what she did.

If you derived ANY benefit at all from her work (even if all she did was file paperwork that someone else would have had to file if she didn't, to use an example) then she was an employee and she will prevail in her claim.

 

[swalsh411]

So then how can you even have an unpaid internship? Are you saying that in order for it to be valid the person can do nothing of value? What kind of internship would that be?

 

[cbg]

That's really kind of the point, swalsh. It is extremely difficult to have an unpaid internship that does not violate the FLSA, unless it is done THROUGH the school as part of a program that the school oversees.

And I'm not the one saying it. The US DOL is. I've already been through this chapter and verse with them when we tried to do an internship program. Just writing up a document that says, I understand that I will not be paid for this work, is NOT even close to enough.

We paid our interns.

 

[Wayner]

the offer of this unpaid internship is to give them an educational opportunity with hands on experience so that they can acquire marketable skills that allow them to pursue employment opportunities. The notion of "benefit" will be arguable since while I coach her and provide her with guidance on every aspect of the tasks which is no different than what can be offered at a vocational school and it actually take my time away from attending other matters at hand (disrupting my operations) so I can honestly say I do not derive any benefit from her engagement in the internship. On the contrary it has been more of a burden to me and my company. The purpose of this internship is to give them a chance to learn something so I would not have them just sit here and do nothing (or else why should they come by in the first place) Honestly I felt betrayed for trying to help out these youngsters who has a hard time finding a job in this economy.

 

[cbg]

You get points for trying. But as I said above, unless you are working THROUGH the school and the intern gets school credit for it, it is just about impossible to have an unpaid internship program that does not violate the law. You feel betrayed because she did not accept what you were doing in the spirit it was intended, but that does not change the fact that under the law, she is right. (Since you make no mention of working through a school or her getting school credit for it, may I safely assume that you did not and she does not?) She is entitled under the law to be paid for that time, and she has a right to demand it, even if that makes you feel betrayed.

May I suggest that next time you want to provide this kind of experience, you do what I did and talk to a school internship program who can help you set it up, legally? That's not meant nastily; that's meant as acknowledgement that you tried to do a good thing but didn't do it right.

 

[Wayner]

I tried to settle the case by sending the checks the labor department asked for dismissal before the first conference today. But the intern even went more aggressively and demand the labor department to impose a penalty for "not paying her on time " even after I send the check. She is poorly uneducated and has almost no working experience..maybe I should have done a background check before ..who knew if she has been agreeing to enter unpaid internship with other companies and then uses the same scheme. I know I meant well to start out and I have trained many others who some ended up working for me and some moved on to other things but none is as cunning.

But the thing I was wondering - can I file for injunction or legal action to stop her from defaming my store on the internet ? She and her family has not stopped to spread messages on review sites and even on facebook to start a "hate community group" with the aim to shed bad light and negative image on my business.

 

[Wayner]

The other question I have is - even after I mailed out the check to the labor dept last week I received a notice to pick up a certified mail from the labor dept ....what could it be ? I paid my dues already..could it be a receipt of my check or what do the labor department usually send ?