Who's right?

[breezymom]

Game playing, as it may be, the court order takes precedence over all. My ex plays/has played games like that constantly. I just don't make any extra plans during that time period because I would rather find something to do around the house with our child for those two hours, than risk being held in contempt of court and giving him that opportunity to use his own game against me.

On a side-note, would it not be more helpful to your friend, like numerous others on here have been told, for your friend to post herself?

 

[Silverplum]

Oh, she'd know if she'd been smacked by the mighty Plum. I was just offering some positive reinforcement.

Positive reinforcement is good!

 

[kimberlywrites]

Game playing, as it may be, the court order takes precedence over all. My ex plays/has played games like that constantly. I just don't make any extra plans during that time period because I would rather find something to do around the house with our child for those two hours, than risk being held in contempt of court and giving him that opportunity to use his own game against me.

On a side-note, would it not be more helpful to your friend, like numerous others on here have been told, for your friend to post herself?

You are a quick learner!

Bottom line - the court order prevails. If CP wants to whip out the cellphone and show text messages, well, that can work both ways. NCP will have the text saying there was a mistake/typo.

 

[AlmostThere]

Is this a one time thing - that is, is the NCP usually pretty good about picking up on time and giving advance notice of changes? If so, then let it go. If this is an ongoing situation, of NCP constantly changing pick up times, not showing up, showing up hours late, etc, then you might have something.

Plans change - it happens. The sooner you learn to work with the other parent, the easier co-parenting will become. No matter how organized you are, there will eventually be a time that you need the NCP to bend a little, and the more you act the jerk, the less likely it will be that the NCP does so willingly.

Moreover, what are you teaching your child(ren) about co-operation and co-parenting?

 

[LdiJ]

Is this a one time thing - that is, is the NCP usually pretty good about picking up on time and giving advance notice of changes? If so, then let it go. If this is an ongoing situation, of NCP constantly changing pick up times, not showing up, showing up hours late, etc, then you might have something.

Plans change - it happens. The sooner you learn to work with the other parent, the easier co-parenting will become. No matter how organized you are, there will eventually be a time that you need the NCP to bend a little, and the more you act the jerk, the less likely it will be that the NCP does so willingly.

Moreover, what are you teaching your child(ren) about co-operation and co-parenting?

Hopefully it will be teaching the children nothing at all about co-parenting and co-operation because hopefully her children have absolutely no idea that anything is going on at all. Because of course its best to keep children out of the middle of disputes between the parents.

I kind of ride the fence on this one, because I have seen judges go both ways with it. Some judges would be livid with dad for bringing such a matter to court since dad caused the confusion in the first place. Some judges would be unhappy with mom for not obeying the court orders. I have a feeling that the majority of the judges would give both of them a slap on the wrist over the whole thing and that would be it.

A lot depends on what the pattern has been though...if either one of them has a pattern of not following the court order, then that is the person most likely to annoy the judge if this were brought to court.

 

[snuffleupagus]

What unchangeable plans does CP have for *two* hours on a Friday evening? Seriously? Going out to dinner? This is where CP says "Hey, kiddo! NCP managed to clear his/her schedule earlier so will be here to get you at the regular time! Isn't that wonderful? We'll go to XYZ when you get home, instead!"

How hard is that?

 

[AlmostThere]

Hopefully it will be teaching the children nothing at all about co-parenting and co-operation because hopefully her children have absolutely no idea that anything is going on at all. Because of course its best to keep children out of the middle of disputes between the parents.

I disagree with that.. once a child is old enough to tell time, that child knows what time they are supposed to shift from one parents home/custody to the other.

If my ex has unforeseeable changes to his schedule, and is picking-up earlier or later, I tell my children because they deal with transition better if they are warned, and they are not standing by the door waiting for him. "Daddy will be picking you up after dinner tonight because his flight is canceled".

However, he might then be booked onto a different flight, and be able to make it on time. "Guess what? Daddy was able to get a different flight and will be here to pick you up for dinner. "

Since he is an effective co-parent, at the time when he thinks he is unable to make it to pick them up on time, he gives me the heads up so I can re-arrange any plans that might be affected. It has happened more than once, he thought he would be delayed and I changed plans to accommodate, but in the end he worked things out, and changed my plans again. It does happen in reverse, but far less frequently .. as I don't travel for work.

When these changes happen, I tell my children "Your dad and I work together as a team on these things". You may argue, but I think its in the best interest of the children to see their parents working together and sharing parenting responsibility despite not being together.

 

[CJane]

You may argue, but I think its in the best interest of the children to see their parents working together and sharing parenting responsibility despite not being together.

I agree with this, completely. I know that the consensus here is to keep kids in the dark about the custody matters/parenting issues, but I don't think that does the kids any favors.

No, they shouldn't know every gritty detail about your relationship with the ex, or the demise or whatever. But they SHOULD know that there's a set of rules that the parents are supposed to follow, that the rules were determined to be in their best interests, and what those rules are. They should also know that Mom and Dad need to communicate about really important stuff, but that it's THEIR responsibility to communicate with BOTH parents too.

I'm NOT a fan of 'covering' for the other parent, or lying to my children.

 

[txmom512]

What unchangeable plans does CP have for *two* hours on a Friday evening? Seriously? Going out to dinner? This is where CP says "Hey, kiddo! NCP managed to clear his/her schedule earlier so will be here to get you at the regular time! Isn't that wonderful? We'll go to XYZ when you get home, instead!"

How hard is that?

Actually CP had appointments, errands to run, etc. and because of closing times and available hours of some places, there was no way CP could wait around until 7pm, so because NCP changed the time, CP had to completely rearrange their schedule for that day. Rearrangements caused CP to not be home until 7pm - which is when NCP said they were going to pick up. 4 hours was not enough notice for CP to rearrange their day AGAIN for NCP.

 

[CJane]

Actually CP had appointments, errands to run, etc. and because of closing times and available hours of some places, there was no way CP could wait around until 7pm, so because NCP changed the time, CP had to completely rearrange their schedule for that day. Rearrangements caused CP to not be home until 7pm - which is when NCP said they were going to pick up. 4 hours was not enough notice for CP to rearrange their day AGAIN for NCP.

And how old is the child?

 

[gr8rn]

CP needs to remember that hard copy signed by a judge will always trump clumsy fingers.

And knowing this has happened before, she needs to text back to make sure NCP is typing correctly. And once that is done, CP should not make plans for those 2 hours between regular pick up time and alternate pick up time.

Or, even better, CP can pick up the phone next time and clarify the texts in question.

 

[AlmostThere]

I agree with this, completely. I know that the consensus here is to keep kids in the dark about the custody matters/parenting issues, but I don't think that does the kids any favors.

No, they shouldn't know every gritty detail about your relationship with the ex, or the demise or whatever. But they SHOULD know that there's a set of rules that the parents are supposed to follow, that the rules were determined to be in their best interests, and what those rules are. They should also know that Mom and Dad need to communicate about really important stuff, but that it's THEIR responsibility to communicate with BOTH parents too.

I'm NOT a fan of 'covering' for the other parent, or lying to my children.

I agree with it being the children's responsibility to communicate with both parents (though when necessary, I will talk to their dad privately and tell him that I asked Thing 1 to talk to him about XYZ, and here is the back story")

They do not know every gritty detail, nor should they. If their dad and I argue about something, they are (generally) not party to it. There is a big difference between not letting the children have a say in custody and visitation, and not keeping them in the dark and treating them with respect.

There is also a big difference between an occasional need to be flexible when the other parent's has a scheduling snafu, and being treated as a doormat, and being asked to put large blocks of time on hold "in case" the other parent decided to exercise their visitation.

 

[gam]

I agree with this, completely. I know that the consensus here is to keep kids in the dark about the custody matters/parenting issues, but I don't think that does the kids any favors.

No, they shouldn't know every gritty detail about your relationship with the ex, or the demise or whatever. But they SHOULD know that there's a set of rules that the parents are supposed to follow, that the rules were determined to be in their best interests, and what those rules are. They should also know that Mom and Dad need to communicate about really important stuff, but that it's THEIR responsibility to communicate with BOTH parents too.

I'm NOT a fan of 'covering' for the other parent, or lying to my children.

I agree and not a fan either. I grew up in a split household, when it was very uncommon to be in a split household. Kids are not stupid, pretending things are grand and someone is this great person when they are not, damages the child. If my mom would have "covered" or lied, I would have known it was BS. Then I would have been left with 2 parents that I could not count on, 2 parents who lied and 2 parents who didn't know how to be parents.

I see kids where I work everyday, all screwed up and most of them are from split households and their problems are caused by parents doing this all wrong. 1 parent can do it wrong and most often the kid manages through the issues. But when 2 parents do it wrong, the kid never seems to manage through the issues.

Life's not fair, and kids need to know that, and learn to deal with reality, not some BS. There is a way to do this without handing them a load of crap and without ripping the other parent apart.

 

[CSO286]

I agree with this, completely. I know that the consensus here is to keep kids in the dark about the custody matters/parenting issues, but I don't think that does the kids any favors.

No, they shouldn't know every gritty detail about your relationship with the ex, or the demise or whatever. But they SHOULD know that there's a set of rules that the parents are supposed to follow, that the rules were determined to be in their best interests, and what those rules are. They should also know that Mom and Dad need to communicate about really important stuff, but that it's THEIR responsibility to communicate with BOTH parents too.
I'm NOT a fan of 'covering' for the other parent, or lying to my children.

AMEN!

LittleCSO knows that the adults went to court to get some things sorted out and that the Judge made rules about when and under what conditons the NCP gets to spend time with/contact the child. I said that we needed extra help to make the decision because we couldn't reach an agreement on our own. LittleCSO also know that the Judge made difficult decisons to protect the child physically and emotionally. Little has also been told that there are rules that the adults have to follow and there can be severe consequences if we don't.

 

[CJane]

AMEN!

LittleCSO knows that the adults went to court to get some things sorted out and that the Judge made rules about when and under what conditons the NCP gets to spend time with/contact the child. I said that we needed extra help to make the decision because we couldn't reach an agreement on our own. LittleCSO also know that Judge made difficult decisons to protect the child physically and emotionally. Little has also been told that there are rules that the adults have to follow and there can be severe consequences if we don't.

And frankly? It HELPS to be able to say "I understand that you want X, but wanting and needing are two different things. And some very smart people who were not emotionally involved helped us to make these decisions based on what you NEED, not on what you WANT."

My kids, at least, trust that the judge and the GAL know what they're doing, and have a lot of experience dealing with these things, whereas their father and I only have OUR experience, and are a bit too close to it most of the time, to be able to agree on some things. *shrug* To each his own. For MY kids, it must be the right thing, because they're pretty darned well-adjusted despite the drama that has shadowed our life since the divorce.