Police Conduct

[sKiTzo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I live in Orange County, Ca. and the police state gestapo is way out of hand. I'm tired of simple traffic stops turning into hour long ordeals sitting on the curb while they stomp on our rights. If they pull me over for a broken taillight I don't think it is appropriate to ask me if I have ever been arrested as A. it has no relevance to a fix-it ticket and B. they are only asking that so that they can then profile and tell me to step out of the car, etc.. They routinely abuse their power and then simply lie on the police report and then it is your word against theirs. Well....in light of the circus of events that have transpired here locally with law enforcement that include several officers that were caught planting evidence and who then subsequently resigned without being criminally charged for sending innocents to prison, a couple of pervert cops that would pull women over and then take them to a more secluded location where they would then grope and fondle them, and most recently the brutal murder of a homeless man by Fullerton's finest in which several officers (most notably the chief of F.P.D.) escaped conspiracy charges for attempting to cover up this heinous crime, I believe this is enough for the people to be able to say "HEY We don't trust these guys - their word is no longer better than ours!" That said, here is my question. There are a number of agencies that now require officers to wear headcams during the entire traffic stop/call/incident and they are not allowed to turn them off until they are alone and not on a call. We desperately need this as they would no longer be able to lie in the reports because the camera records their every move. How can we enact this program so that they have to wear the headcams in all of Southern California? What steps need to be taken in order to lobby for this? Is there a petition I can start that would require thousands of signaturres? I will personally collect all the signatures. Please help stop these overzealous taser-wielding maniacs before it's too late!

 

[HighwayMan]

How can we enact this program so that they have to wear the headcams in all of Southern California?

"We" can't. Lobby your local legislators and see what they say about it.

Please help stop these overzealous taser-wielding maniacs before it's too late!

Quite the drama king aren't you?

 

[davew128]

I could say the same thing about cops in San Diego county based on media portrayal based on vehicle inspections by Chula Vista, license checkpoints in Escondido, and the VERY HIGH number of officers arrested in San Diego in the last year. But truth is, I haven't personally encountered any of it, because:

a) My car isn't illegally modified (despite my personal opinions about the CA laws for it)
b) My license is valid
c) My personal encounters with SDPD have always been very professional and courteous.

So perhaps the problems in OC you speak have more to do with....YOU.

 

[CdwJava]

I'll avoid the clear bias and diatribe and go with your question about the cameras. Yes, you can seek to promote legislation mandating the use of cop cams of some kind. However, the expense would be tremendous. These devices can be more expensive than vehicle cameras and there would be a need for more of them than for vehicles. In California we cannot afford the vehicle cameras en masse, so the possibility of buying these cameras is out of the question.

Any legislation here also has to have a funding source. In a state with declining revenues and spiraling debt, how would you propose to fund the millions of dollars required for the initial purchase of these devices, and to maintain them into the future? It's NOT a one time deal. There is a cost associated with these cameras even above and beyond the devices themselves. And, ion CA legislation must be revenue neutral o you would have to identify a revenue source to pay for this legislation.

So, you clearly have a yeoman's task ahead of you. Knock yourself out.

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

So the OP wants to be video recorded by the police? Sounds as if it conflicts with his original premise.

Sounds like the OP got pulled over for a broken tail light & did not like the delay associated with it. You don't have to answer unending questions from the police. They'll ask as many questions as you are willing to answer (I think that's their job).

 

[davew128]

Why not buy your OWN dash cam?

 

[netfocus]

To the OP -

It may have more to do with how broke California is; I lived many years in a broke state and the cops there loved to ticket for tint, seat belts, lack of fender flares, whatever (they actually had seat belt checkpoints!) - they made a lot of MONEY doing it. So, consider being pulled over more of a tax, a money problem, rather than some personal attack on you.

 

[CdwJava]

To the OP -

It may have more to do with how broke California is; I lived many years in a broke state and the cops there loved to ticket for tint, seat belts, lack of fender flares, whatever (they actually had seat belt checkpoints!) - they made a lot of MONEY doing it. So, consider being pulled over more of a tax, a money problem, rather than some personal attack on you.

As a note, since it is the officers making the stops, no agency I have ever heard of has received word that we need to solve the state's budget problem and issue more tickets. It doesn't work that way. besides, writing a million tickets wouldn't do it because the funds are earmarked and couldn't be used for any of the general fund purposes that allow for discretionary spending anyway.

As for the agencies, they receive very little money from a traffic violation and none from a "fix-it ticket." They really have no great incentive to issue citations for monetary gain.

Further, in all of the state briefs I have seen on ways to address the budget crisis I have to see a single one from the state asking for additional moving cites to be written to help with the budget issue. So, if the OP is getting stopped, it is likely because he lives in a place where the officers have a good deal of discretionary time on their hands, and/or he has made himself known to the local police for some reason and they have decided that he needs some attention for some reason.

But, based upon his deleted threads and posts, I suspect his issues have more to do with railing against authority than any REAL attempt at a constructive fix for any perceived problems.

 

[netfocus]

As a note, since it is the officers making the stops, no agency I have ever heard of has received word that we need to solve the state's budget problem and issue more tickets. It doesn't work that way. besides, writing a million tickets wouldn't do it because the funds are earmarked and couldn't be used for any of the general fund purposes that allow for discretionary spending anyway.

As for the agencies, they receive very little money from a traffic violation and none from a "fix-it ticket." They really have no great incentive to issue citations for monetary gain..

It may be a blend of police state plus revenue shortfall, but when you live in a police state such as a California, Oregon, Hawaii that has a revenue shortfall I have definitely seen ridiculous behavior geared solely at making MONEY. I am not just blaming the police, but the legislatures passing laws on car muffler sound, tinting, cell phones, etc. are at fault, these are pure money making measures.

http://blog.motorists.org/if-you-didnt-believe-ticket-quotas-existed-before-you-will-now/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/virginia-state-police-help-with-budget-crunch/

 

[startedone]

think you had it bad? see link

Pepper-Spray Brutality at UC Davis - James Fallows - National - The Atlantic

 

[CdwJava]

Pepper-Spray Brutality at UC Davis - James Fallows - National - The Atlantic

Well, while the 9th Circuit ruled about 14 years ago that passive resistance alone is not sufficient to justify the use of force such as OC spray, there are circumstances under which it can be perfectly justifiable. I am unfamiliar with the situation so cannot offer much of an opinion. But, the option here would have been to have physically forced the arms apart and that would have required pain compliance techniques and, quite possible, the use of batons or asps (collapsible batons) to pry the arms and hands loose from each and every protester. It would have been virtually guaranteed that both officers and protesters would have been injured in that event.

If this is just going to be a thread on dumping on cops, I suggest you guys take it to a board that exists for that purpose there are plenty of them that cater to anarchy and disorder and despise authority. This is not one of them, nor is there a legal question pending here.

 

[CdwJava]

It may be a blend of police state plus revenue shortfall, but when you live in a police state such as a California, Oregon, Hawaii that has a revenue shortfall I have definitely seen ridiculous behavior geared solely at making MONEY. I am not just blaming the police, but the legislatures passing laws on car muffler sound, tinting, cell phones, etc. are at fault, these are pure money making measures.

If You Didn’t Believe Ticket Quotas Existed Before, You Will Now

Virginia State Police Help With Budget Crunch | The Truth About Cars

I can't speak to other states, but here traffic tickets are a piss poor way to raise funds for local governments or even the state as the funds are earmarked and not available to the general fund. These are not discretionary resources at the state level.

Plus, quotas are illegal in most (maybe all) states.

 

[startedone]

I can't speak to other states, but here traffic tickets are a piss poor way to raise funds for local governments or even the state as the funds are earmarked and not available to the general fund. These are not discretionary resources at the state level.

Plus, quotas are illegal in most (maybe all) states.

You know, saying this one hundred times does not make it so. The fascist system certainly encourages pseudo-quotas when the feds give the state $$ for issuing out traffic tickets, even in your state.

Piss poor I agree; not a way of generating $$, disagree. 95% of people just pay.

 

[netfocus]

I can't speak to other states, but here traffic tickets are a piss poor way to raise funds for local governments or even the state as the funds are earmarked and not available to the general fund. These are not discretionary resources at the state level.

Plus, quotas are illegal in most (maybe all) states.

I don't understand the funds you are talking about; who ends up getting the money from traffic tickets?

I don't have an issue with the police doing quotas, I learned a long time ago to treat speeding tickets as a Tax on my lifestyle and they no longer bother me; although I wish the police would target aggressive drivers more over speeders on an empty highway!

 

[netfocus]

Pepper-Spray Brutality at UC Davis - James Fallows - National - The Atlantic

The police are never going to look good when facing non-violent protests, isn't that the ENTIRE point of a non-violent protest, to force the other side into hurting you and then you turn it into a PR campaign? I guess in these cases the police are portrayed as enforcers for the 1%. I would think the best thing these states could do is just absolutely and completely ignore the protestors, give them zero ammunition - but contrary they seem to be taking the bait...