Full Legal Custody

[gam]

It is just for this year. My only real concern is that she is 2 and toddlers abhor drastic schedule changes (yes, I realise the holiday, itself is one), but is that too much back and forth in such a small amount of time:

20 hours at Dad's for holiday
21 hours at Mom's in between, with approximately 13 of them asleep.
29 hours at Dad's for visitation, then back to Mom's

Go with Misto's suggestion. I can tell you first hand how hard a chopped up Holiday schedule like this is on a baby, toddler and preschooler. This is what my daughter's ex wanted when her child was young. Cramming your own celebrating of the Holiday in between dad's celebrating is way to much stimulation on a younger child. We found it far better for the child and all us adults(rotten, cranky child does not make an adults holiday much fun), to just give up the whole time and do ours either before or after. Make sure you do yours with a day in between, as cramming one on top of the other also makes for an unhappy young child.

My daughter's ex didn't want the every other year thing, he wanted to chop it up so each had part of the holiday itself. Only thing he would agree to is him having the whole thing every year or chopping it up. So for 2 years in a row he got the whole thing, she just wanted the child to enjoy it. But then he started wanting more and wanting every holiday. There is a fine line with doing what is best for baby and giving up everything to. Courts standard Holiday schedules are usually every other year you get these holidays, he gets those, next year its the opposite, it's that way for a reason.

Also consider the child in this, is the child the type that goes with the flow or the type that needs routine? My grandson needs routine, anything outside of that really throws him off. Far better to get him back on track, when he goes for days together, then when he is back and forth. I know other kids that go with the flow, and they do fine going back and forth, I know some that go between the 2 homes everyday. Much depends on the child, you can only work around the childs nature to a point, if you go beyond that it becomes miserable for the child and you. So consider this when making schedules, much better for the child to consider that then who gets what time and how many days in a row and I don't have my child on the holiday itself crap.

 

[breezymom]

Frankly, I think this is crazy.

What you need to realize is that for kids, December 25 is just another day. It's CHRISTMAS that matters. And it's not hard to have Christmas on any day you wish. Even when married to my ex, we never celebrated Christmas on Dec 25 since we were always at Mother-in-Law's house. So Santa came to our house a few days early each year (typically the Saturday or Sunday before Christmas).

I would simplify it to say:
Christmas holiday is from noon Christmas Eve to noon the day after Christmas. Dad gets even years, Mom gets odd years (or switch it if it's more convenient).

As for how it matches up with regular visitation, trying to get that into a court agreement is going to simply drive you crazy. There are some times when it just requires adults to ACT like adults rather than spoiled children. Using the above example, let's say that Dad has Christmas this year which ends at noon on the 26th. And let's say that Dad's normal visitation starts at 6 pm on the 26th. A reasonable person would simply let Dad have the 6 extra hours in between without fighting over it. And trying to sort this out in a court order is likely to be extremely difficult. You really need to be adults.

Have you ever seen two dogs fighting over a bone? Even if one has a larger bone, he'll drop it to try to take the smaller bone from the other dog. That's what you two are doing.

In the example above, it really doesn't take much to say "the kids will be settled in with Dad and having a good time visiting relatives, so there's no point in disrupting that by insisting on my 6 hours - a good part of which will be spent in the car".

Thanks, again, misto. I really DO want to be adults about this. The thing is, whether or not something is specified in the court order, he feels as though he can do as he wants. I DO think it would be better to have it specified, however. It's not that I want the court dictating our lives, but then I feel more comfortable saying, "per the court order..." when he demands things that may be unreasonable for the child. Yes, December 25 is just another day. I realise this. He doesn't.

He demands he have her every holiday ON the holiday date and will not be flexible about that.

Therefore, and it has worked while she's been young, but I can see it being an issue when she gets older, but we split the day. My lawyer, on the way out, if I remember correctly, said to split the day again. It's a mess, no matter what. And if we still have the same visitation schedule by next Christmas, the normal visitation day IS December 24-25, so...

Would it be unreasonable of me to ask him if he can celebrate it on his regular visitation day, instead, and that he has Christmas anyway, next year and ask him if maybe it is possible to stick to that alternating schedule? Or am I denying the child extra parenting time that will benefit her? I do believe it would be a better schedule than the messed up one we already have, but I want to be fair to our daughter's time with him, as well.

 

[mistoffolees]

He demands he have her every holiday ON the holiday date and will not be flexible about that.

Not going to happen if you let the judge decide. I would suggest alternating holidays. If ex refuses, let the judge decide - and the judge will go with your state's standard visitation.

 

[breezymom]

I am so FRUSTRATED right now. It went nearly as I said it normally does, except he continued with what he HAD to say with me holding her, then him holding her. I recorded it, so I can have a more accurate recount (I will type it as I listen to it), but this is the basics of what occurred:

I tell her to tell him Happy Thanksgiving!

He starts with, "there's one thing that we need to clear up. Show me the claw, *Child*. Show Mommy the claw, *Child*." (she is bashful and uncomfortable, turning her head with that "I'm not comfortable" look). He says,

"There's one thing about the claw. It's a family joke."

Then something about him telling me not to think it causes any bruising (I have to listen to the recording to remember exactly because I was tuning out).

I said that's not to talk about in front of her, started to walk away, and said, that's adult matters.

He said yes it is something to talk about in front of her and I didnt hear the rest.


Now, HOW does that make the holiday comfortable for ANYone, especially our CHILD who was RIGHT smack in the MIDDLE? I'm about as close to angry as I ever get and I don't GET angry...I get frustrated.

Really...how the hell do I approach this? It has been an issue for every big holiday as well as ANY time I have had to do the exchange. As far as when she has been given to him by a third party (i/e one of his friends in the past or the exchange program we use now), I don't know, but it IS a problem and it is NOT good for our child.

 

[stealth2]

I guess I don't understand any of that.

 

[breezymom]

Sorry, stealth. postin hx within this thread: when I reported the bruising to CPS, I was fair in saying that she kept mentioning "The Claw," which is a wrestling character and putting her hand (like a claw) around her wrist. I mentioned it to be fair that maybe, perhaps, it was during horseplay (which I was told it was too rough for a 2 year old if it indeed was).

Does that help?

 

[The_Non-Mom]

I am so FRUSTRATED right now. It went nearly as I said it normally does, except he continued with what he HAD to say with me holding her, then him holding her. I recorded it, so I can have a more accurate recount (I will type it as I listen to it), but this is the basics of what occurred:

I tell her to tell him Happy Thanksgiving!

He starts with, "there's one thing that we need to clear up. Show me the claw, *Child*. Show Mommy the claw, *Child*." (she is bashful and uncomfortable, turning her head with that "I'm not comfortable" look). He says,

"There's one thing about the claw. It's a family joke."

Then something about him telling me not to think it causes any bruising (I have to listen to the recording to remember exactly because I was tuning out).

I said that's not to talk about in front of her, started to walk away, and said, that's adult matters.

He said yes it is something to talk about in front of her and I didnt hear the rest.


Now, HOW does that make the holiday comfortable for ANYone, especially our CHILD who was RIGHT smack in the MIDDLE? I'm about as close to angry as I ever get and I don't GET angry...I get frustrated.

Really...how the hell do I approach this? It has been an issue for every big holiday as well as ANY time I have had to do the exchange. As far as when she has been given to him by a third party (i/e one of his friends in the past or the exchange program we use now), I don't know, but it IS a problem and it is NOT good for our child.

This whole exchange just sounds like the most odd and awkward thing ever....from both of you. No wonder the child was uncomfortable.

 

[breezymom]

This whole exchange just sounds like the most odd and awkward thing ever....from both of you. No wonder the child was uncomfortable.

I agree. And, honestly, I have calmed down from the near anger frustration to the crying frustration, now. I am frustrated because I *had* to leave because I would never forgive myself, well-beyond the legal action taken, if I stayed, kept her around the abuse, and it ever escalated to something physical. I couldn't DO that to her. I didn't WANT her in the middle of that. She doesn't deserve that. I hate holidays. I really hate them. Why? Because I just can't hate another person and I hate what he is doing to her.

 

[Isis1]

Is that anything like the "claw" from the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carry?

 

[breezymom]

Is that anything like the "claw" from the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carry?

No because he wouldn't watch a movie like that. He is very into WWE and the like. And, just before that incident, he posted something on facebook about the WWE character.

 

[breezymom]

He will be back in about 2.5 hours ready to start it again and I'm just not sure what to do, especially if he leaves her in the car while he tries to start it.

 

[stealth2]

I'd consider calling the cops and asking if they could send an officer to just "stand by" and ensure nothing escalates.

 

[breezymom]

I'd consider calling the cops and asking if they could send an officer to just "stand by" and ensure nothing escalates.

Thanks, stealth. I really appreciate it. I will consider it for a bit before I decide. It's not like I can't play the recording so that they know exactly what the issue is, since it's a one party state. If I do, I may actually ask if the last officer who took the last report were available, since he has knowledge of and understands the situation and is fair about things.

 

[breezymom]

Actually, after some thought, what I will do is I will let him come to the door when he returns. That way she is already out of the car and he will, most likely, hand her to me while he is going on about things, in which case I will tell him, politely, "Happy Thanksgiving," and shut the door. Then, if by the off chance he doesn't leave, I will call the police. In the mean time, I will try to find my card for my phone so that I can transfer the recording to my computer, and send it off to the GAL and my lawyer so both are abreast of the continuing occurrence and that it's actually getting worse by him directly involving her in it, this time. The recording is kind of shotty, since the phone was in my pocket, but it can be heard if listened to, carefully.

Does that sound fair enough and the least stressful for our child?

I know it's his perogative to harass me about the CPS report, but it still really bothers me that he dragged a 2 year old into the middle of it. On any day, let alone a holiday.

 

[mistoffolees]

Actually, after some thought, what I will do is I will let him come to the door when he returns. That way she is already out of the car and he will, most likely, hand her to me while he is going on about things, in which case I will tell him, politely, "Happy Thanksgiving," and shut the door. Then, if by the off chance he doesn't leave, I will call the police. In the mean time, I will try to find my card for my phone so that I can transfer the recording to my computer, and send it off to the GAL and my lawyer so both are abreast of the continuing occurrence and that it's actually getting worse by him directly involving her in it, this time. The recording is kind of shotty, since the phone was in my pocket, but it can be heard if listened to, carefully.

Does that sound fair enough and the least stressful for our child?

I know it's his perogative to harass me about the CPS report, but it still really bothers me that he dragged a 2 year old into the middle of it. On any day, let alone a holiday.

It takes two to tango. You're contributing to the stress, as well.