To Sue or not to Sue?

[Antigone*]

You really expect someone to read this novel?

I suggest you cut this down to one short paragraph with a question at the end.

 

[Zigner]

I live in Newark, DE; however, the school that I have an issue with is in Florida.


I have filed a complaint against my college (Saint Leo University in Florida) with the BBB and the attorney general’s office in that area and so far, the school refuses to respond. They already have an F with the BBB. Below is a copy of the BBB report with the details of the situation (BBB had space limitations so some sentences were cut off:

I am a senior at Saint Leo University and I was set to graduate at the end of this semester. I enrolled to take my last class October 24, 2011. The first issue was that we did not receive access codes to our homework assignments until a week & ½ after classes started, so we were already behind. When we finally got in the class, the software would mark our answers wrong even if it was right. The book does not explain how to do the problems, & it is laced with incorrect answers. The solution from the professor was to email him the ones we thought were right, wait for a response, & if the answers were wrong, redo the problem, send it back to him, & wait for another response. I already have trouble with math & learning this way, I felt like I was being set up for failure. I was not getting responses from my adviser X, so I had to send emails to people that I thought could help me. I have an exchange of emails dating back to November where the entire class was complaining which I sent to faculty & staff that I thought could help us since my advisor offered no assistance. Eventually, I was just removed from the class & no one even told me. I found out because a student in class tried to send me an email & noticed my name wasn't there anymore, so she contacted me through my student email. Again I reached out to my adviser for answers; no response. I called to see why I was dropped & they said I was removed from the class because that's what they thought I was asking for. If I had room to paste the email exchanges, you would see that I never once requested that because I wanted to be able to graduate on time so I could start the MBA.MKT program in Spring I as planned. The main issue that I have now is that I have to take this class before I can graduate & there are no other classes available to substitute this one. If this program cannot be revamped by Spring II or an alternate class is not put in place by then, I fear I will not graduate. I have reached out to the course instructor, advisors at the school, several deans, the course developer, the president, and the vice president of the school & they keep giving me the run around. Everyone acknowledges that there is a problem; however, no one is offering solutions. My whole educational process has been delayed & I am afraid the same thing will happen again if no one does anything before March! Sadly, there were several other students in the class that was supposed to graduate this semester too but had the same issues. I really would like to send the email exchanges so that you could fully understand what we went through. Please send me an email address to do so if that is possible.
I will post email from 1 student:
From: Jack X
Sent: 11/7/2011

Instructor: I've had it. I've discussed this with the other students and, quite frankly, this is not even close to the university's Core Values in regards to teaching. The textbook is incomplete and filled with mistakes, the website is opaque and vague (not to mention that for the first week it was not even online), and the Smartthinking people are as much in the dark about this class as everyone else is (and now they want to be PAID for the help we've asked for). I've requested to be dropped without penalty and should Saint Leo re-institute this class again, let us hope that they have the sense to use a better method for instruction (which they've managed to do with previous math classes). I'm very upset about this and will send a copy of this note to other members of the class. If there are those who are able to work through this, fine. But EVERYONE should be able to work through these lessons. There is nothing inappropriate or wrong about being given a multiple amount of time and opportunity to 'get it right' rather than given just "3 chances" for a correct answer (after all, what do you think midterms and finals are all about). Furthermore, one would expect a "tool" to accommodate the correct answer when the

DESIRED SETTLEMENT
I have accepted the fact that I will not be able to graduate until Spring II or begin the MBA.MKT program until Summer I. I think I have a reasonable request. There needs to be some changes made to this course including the teaching tools & the software & books used. This class costs around $1400.00 & for that amount of money & 8 weeks of time & effort; the students are entitled to have more effective technology & learning tools at their disposal. The professor admittedly reports that X "has its own idiosyncrasies" & in the past it is normal for his student to take 2 weeks just to get some type of understanding in the class. The first two weeks of class are crucial to an online student, especially if it is in a subject they already struggle in. Not only are there several "idiosyncrasies" with the software; we were not even able to access the course for the first week of class because we were not sent the proper codes from X to even get in to use this difficult software. I humbly request that the class makes the needed changes to this class before we have to take it again in Spring II or give us an alternative class to take in the place of it. I also request to have a new adviser.
EMAIL CONT: correct answer (after all, what do you think midterms & finals are all about). Furthermore, one would expect a "tool" to accommodate the correct answer when the correct answer is given (rather than be marked wrong). With all due respect, this is beyond mediocrity. This is absolutely unacceptable!

OTHER STUDENT EMAILS:
From: Amy X
Sent: 11/6/2011
I share in your issues with this textbook & the X website. I even asked my 16 year old for help.... I can't find information in the text on how to solve the problems & find myself searching the internet for help. I am on the road a lot for work, but if either of you are able to arrange a group "study" session please let me know, because I could desperately use the help.
From: Jesse X
Sent: 11/6/2011
Is it possible to upload some type of teaching lecture or AVP to the course content? Or, even to You Tube? I have read that the book does not teach according to st&ard forms of learning, i.e. giving a problem then working it out. The authors wish to have students discuss the questions with family & friends (their words, not mine). This is difficult because people I talk to don't care to discuss my math homework, nor could some of them even do it. I do agree some from of "live teaching" would be very helpful in putting together these concepts.
From: Cindy X
Sent: 11/6/2011
I agree with everything you are saying Amy. I can't find the proper help either & the fact that we have been cramming week 1 assignment into week 2 does not help any. The book is not a good teaching tool & just confusing me even more.
From: Brittany X
Sent: 11/12/2011
I haven't really had time to respond. I was a little offended by it because it made it sound like I am bashing the instructor & I am not! Now I have more concerns if they are going to send the same letter to all students trying to raise awareness of the courses issues.
From: Amy X
Sent: 11/11/2011
I got this same message. It's a blanket message to everyone who complained. That's a shame. NO personal response???? I am not believing this. I responded to her as well. I feel so insignificant.
From: Karena S&X
Sent: 11/12/2011
Thank you so much for sharing that!!! I thought I was the only one struggling with this class. I am set to graduate in December & start a masters program in Jan so clearly waiting another term is not an option. I personally think this class is a waste, especially since I am a liberal studies major, not to mention I have taken college algebra & statistics.I thought, per the teacher, that this class was going to show us how math is a part of our every day life, I have yet to see that.I am emailing my advisor, hopefully there will be some consideration in removing this


Being that I live in Delaware and the school is in Florida, is it worth pursuing a law suit against them, and if so; are there attorneys that would be willing to charge only if we win the case?

Quoted to remove personal info (and it was a bit of a chore!)

 

[Zigner]

Any legal action you might take would certainly take longer than just waiting to retake the class...

 

[mellissia3333]

All Information Needed

This is an issue that has been going on since November of last year. It has been reported to several different chain of commands so I feel like all information is relevant. The biggest question is in the title. If you don't want to read it, then that's fine. Maybe there are some people out there who aren't as lazy and enjoys reading.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[mellissia3333]

I understand that. I already have to wait to retake the class anyway. The point is that this is an injustice. The fact that they are acknowledging that there is a problem but refusing to do anything about it is ridiculous. What about the students that are to come after me? They think they can just charge people thousands of dollars for these degrees and not address their issues and ignore BBB complaints as if they could care less. I find it down right ****y and I feel like they need to be challenged!

 

[stealth2]

Well... you could always take yourself to a lawyer and pay for the advice. You have to understand that everyone here volunteers their time. Most of us won't wade through a post the length of yours. If it takes that much to explain your situation? You need a lawyer.

 

[mellissia3333]

Thank you for your reply. I understand. It's just that the site says "free advice" so I thought that's what it was. This situation has been going on since November and I have contacted a lot of people for resolve. That is why it is so long.

 

[Humusluvr]

Do you have a syllabus from the professor? A syllabus is like a contract with the students, that shows what the professor will do. If they don't do what's in the syllabus, then you take your grievances to the department chair.

What is it you want to do now? Retake the course? Get a refund? Transfer?

Besides the professor, who have you talked to in person? Did you go see your advisor or make an appointment with them in person?

You could always sue in small claims court. That would not necessitate a lawyer, because I don't think any lawyer would take your case, unless you paid them a large retainer.

 

[mellissia3333]

Thank you for your reply. Sorry I did not see it earlier. I have reached out to the course instructor, advisors at the school, several deans, the course developer, the president, and the vice president of the school & they all keep giving me the run around. Finally I contacted the BBB on December 20th and they have yet to respond. Instead of answering my questions, they dropped me from the class and gave me a refund, but I still need the class to graduate and it is not being offered again until March. I never asked to be removed from the class. I was supposed to start my MBA this semester and now I have to wait until March and hope that changes will have made to the class by then. I live in Delaware and my school is in Florida so I could not speak to anyone in person. This is really what my question was and you answered it in regards to small claims court without needing a lawyer. Do I file in Florida since that is where the school is or in Delaware since that is where I live? Thanks again, you have been a lot of help.
I just found the syllabus and this is the learning objectives:
Learning Outcomes:
By the end of this course:

1. Students will be able to use the terminology and concepts of some fundamental areas at the heart of mathematics, including logic, number, statistics, and geometry.

2. Students will be able to clearly communicate analytical and mathematical ideas to others.

3. Students will be able to use effective thinking and their repertoire of problem-solving strategies to analyze situations that require rigorous thought and to comprehend mathematical arguments.

4. Students will be able to comprehend uncertainties and make predictions based on a strong comprehension of the situation.

5. Students will communicate and work together to solve problems and develop a Christian learning community as outlined in Saint Leo's core value of Community.

 

[Humusluvr]

Thank you for your reply. Sorry I did not see it earlier. I have reached out to the course instructor, advisors at the school, several deans, the course developer, the president, and the vice president of the school & they all keep giving me the run around. Finally I contacted the BBB on December 20th and they have yet to respond. Instead of answering my questions, they dropped me from the class and gave me a refund, but I still need the class to graduate and it is not being offered again until March. I never asked to be removed from the class. I was supposed to start my MBA this semester and now I have to wait until March and hope that changes will have made to the class by then. I live in Delaware and my school is in Florida so I could not speak to anyone in person. This is really what my question was and you answered it in regards to small claims court without needing a lawyer. Do I file in Florida since that is where the school is or in Delaware since that is where I live? Thanks again, you have been a lot of help.
I just found the syllabus and this is the learning objectives:
Learning Outcomes:
By the end of this course:

1. Students will be able to use the terminology and concepts of some fundamental areas at the heart of mathematics, including logic, number, statistics, and geometry.

2. Students will be able to clearly communicate analytical and mathematical ideas to others.

3. Students will be able to use effective thinking and their repertoire of problem-solving strategies to analyze situations that require rigorous thought and to comprehend mathematical arguments.

4. Students will be able to comprehend uncertainties and make predictions based on a strong comprehension of the situation.

5. Students will communicate and work together to solve problems and develop a Christian learning community as outlined in Saint Leo's core value of Community.

Could you take the class at another school and transfer it in?

What do you think is the deal with your advisor? Why is he or she not helping you complete your degree?

If they did process your refund, you would not be able to sue them. Did they provide you with a full refund?

 

[mellissia3333]

I have been trying to find a school that has an equivalent class that would transfer. So far, there are none. The university does not offer any other alternatives either. I am not sure what the deal is with my advisor. My advisor that I started out with was awesome, but she got promoted in October or something like that. I was with her since 2009 when I first enrolled. This new advisor hasn’t helped me with anything. That is a whole nother issue that I am faced with and one of the requests that I did have as part of a resolution. I wanted a new advisor and some changes to be made to the course or an alternative course to be made available by March when I can take it again. They did give me a full refund but I never even asked for a refund or to be removed from the class. I have no idea what I am going to do at this point because there is no way I could pass this class like it is. I had tutors that could not do the work because even if they had the right answers, the system would mark it wrong. It is an online class and the actual institution is hundreds of miles away, so I would have to email the answer that I think is right to the professor, wait for a response, and if it was wrong, repeat the process. We were already a week and a half behind because they sent the wrong access codes with our books so we could not even get into the homework at all. I have spent all of this time and money with this school and this is the only class that I have left. I don’t know what else to do…

 

[Zigner]

They did give me a full refund …

Then, the answer to your MAIN question is that you should not sue, as you have already received your refund.

 

[mellissia3333]

Yes, I get that now.Thanks.

 

[Humusluvr]

I have been trying to find a school that has an equivalent class that would transfer. So far, there are none. The university does not offer any other alternatives either. I am not sure what the deal is with my advisor. My advisor that I started out with was awesome, but she got promoted in October or something like that. I was with her since 2009 when I first enrolled. This new advisor hasn’t helped me with anything. That is a whole nother issue that I am faced with and one of the requests that I did have as part of a resolution. I wanted a new advisor and some changes to be made to the course or an alternative course to be made available by March when I can take it again. They did give me a full refund but I never even asked for a refund or to be removed from the class. I have no idea what I am going to do at this point because there is no way I could pass this class like it is. I had tutors that could not do the work because even if they had the right answers, the system would mark it wrong. It is an online class and the actual institution is hundreds of miles away, so I would have to email the answer that I think is right to the professor, wait for a response, and if it was wrong, repeat the process. We were already a week and a half behind because they sent the wrong access codes with our books so we could not even get into the homework at all. I have spent all of this time and money with this school and this is the only class that I have left. I don’t know what else to do…

Since you are so close to graduation, you should start back with your advisor, calling and emailing, and requesting nicely (demanding) a different class or transfer class that will satisfy the requirement. Your advisor (or call the school and request a different advisor) should help you do something. Call and ask to speak to the director of advising, and don't take no for an answer. This is the diligence that will get you through this degree. Don't give up.

 

[csi7]

Check with ForgiveStudentLoanDebt.org with your question, and you may get some helpful suggestions there as well.

This is a common tactic with on-line schools and for-profit schools.

Keep track of who you talk to, and do not give up.