Alimony and breadwinning wife

[Bali Hai]

OP did not say that hubby was a stay-at-home dad based on both of their choice, she just said he hasn't worked but Social Security did not find him to be disabled.

It was both of their choice for 18 years.

If she'd said that they had both chosen for him not to work to raise the children, the responses would have been somewhat different. If he was actually APPROVED for SS disability, the responses would have been different as well. It has nothing to do with gender.

And the truth is still that whether he's a lazy bum or really disabled and screwed over by the government or a SAH dad by choice, OP has been ok with supporting him for the past 18 years and the court will most likely expect her to keep supporting him - possibly permanently in CA with a marriage this long. She does not have a court order to support her adult children, so when the time comes when she must choose between paying court-ordered alimony and supporting the adult children, she is going to have to choose following the court order to avoid the penalties of contempt.

And no, the divorce judge is not going to accept the excuse of supporting able bodied adult children as a reason to not order spousal support.

Not to work to raise the children is the ONLY acceptable reason the be a SAH person? Or does it only apply to a certain group? Is this what CA state statute says?

 

[ecmst12]

There are only so many reasons why someone wouldn't work. Either to stay home with children, because they're not physically or mentally capable of working, or because they just don't feel like it. Being unemployed because of inability to find work is also a legitimate reason but one would not expect that situation to last 18 years unless he wasn't *really* looking all that hard. Someone without minor children who is physically/mentally capable of working but stays home "to keep the house" or other such nonsense I would put in the category of "they just don't feel like working". Or someone could choose not to work in order to go to school, but again that doesn't appear to be the case here and should not last 18 years unless you're staying in school as an excuse to not get a job. All of the above are valid choices which may be acceptable choices for any given family. Some reasons may be considered to have more weight than others by a judge when deciding about spousal support, but that's not my place to say.

It doesn't really matter what I would find acceptable in my family. For me to support a non-working spouse for that long, there would have to be some serious extenuating circumstances or he would have to be the most stunning example of a house-husband that one could ever wish for (in which case why would I be divorcing him), but that's me. OP decided it was ok with her to do so, and that's the circumstances that the judge will rule on.

 

[nextwife]

And no, the divorce judge is not going to accept the excuse of supporting able bodied adult children as a reason to not order spousal support.

Not JUST able bodied ADULT children, but able bodied adult children PLUS the children those non self-supporting children are producing. Apparently, these grandkids have neither a father nor mother who are supporting them, if she is their support.

 

[Bali Hai]

There are only so many reasons why someone wouldn't work. Either to stay home with children, because they're not physically or mentally capable of working, or because they just don't feel like it. Being unemployed because of inability to find work is also a legitimate reason but one would not expect that situation to last 18 years unless he wasn't *really* looking all that hard. Someone without minor children who is physically/mentally capable of working but stays home "to keep the house" or other such nonsense I would put in the category of "they just don't feel like working". Or someone could choose not to work in order to go to school, but again that doesn't appear to be the case here and should not last 18 years unless you're staying in school as an excuse to not get a job. All of the above are valid choices which may be acceptable choices for any given family. Some reasons may be considered to have more weight than others by a judge when deciding about spousal support, but that's not my place to say.

It doesn't really matter what I would find acceptable in my family. For me to support a non-working spouse for that long, there would have to be some serious extenuating circumstances or he would have to be the most stunning example of a house-husband that one could ever wish for (in which case why would I be divorcing him), but that's me. OP decided it was ok with her to do so, and that's the circumstances that the judge will rule on.

The fact is that OP's spouse did not work for 18 years. When OP says to the judge that she tried to get his lazy behind to work for 18 years, the spouse will say "we agreed" that I would stay home. One would expect the judge to render a decision in keeping with other similiar cases before them previously.

 

[metfan012]

So you make about 54,000 a year? That is not a lot for CA. Is your husband truely disabled? How old are each of you? Why do you have to support your adult daughters and grandchildren? Did your husband have at least 40 SS earnings credits from prior to your marriage? If not, any SS benefits he could collect would be minimal...so you would still have a potential issue with alimony.

I am 50 and he is 50. My husband does not have enough credits to qualify on his own for Social Security. His doctors in the past has said he is not disabled enough for social security (his legs are bad from blood problems.) My daughters do not have an income at this time.

Would the judge look at my bills as well as my income? or is it very arbitrary...you make 54,000 a year so you have to pay this no matter what? I kind of think because of age and little work history it will be lifetime alimony.

 

[metfan012]

Not to work to raise the children is the ONLY acceptable reason the be a SAH person? Or does it only apply to a certain group? Is this what CA state statute says?

ecmst12...I think you are 100% correct in that if I put up with him not working for 18 years...by golly I will pay for the rest of my life. I am not complaining...but I think you are right on that issue.

 

[Bali Hai]

I am 50 and he is 50. My husband does not have enough credits to qualify on his own for Social Security. His doctors in the past has said he is not disabled enough for social security (his legs are bad from blood problems.) My daughters do not have an income at this time.

Would the judge look at my bills as well as my income? or is it very arbitrary...you make 54,000 a year so you have to pay this no matter what? I kind of think because of age and little work history it will be lifetime alimony.

If the judge were being completely unbias, I believe you are right.

 

[metfan012]

There are only so many reasons why someone wouldn't work. Either to stay home with children, because they're not physically or mentally capable of working, or because they just don't feel like it. Being unemployed because of inability to find work is also a legitimate reason but one would not expect that situation to last 18 years unless he wasn't *really* looking all that hard. Someone without minor children who is physically/mentally capable of working but stays home "to keep the house" or other such nonsense I would put in the category of "they just don't feel like working". Or someone could choose not to work in order to go to school, but again that doesn't appear to be the case here and should not last 18 years unless you're staying in school as an excuse to not get a job. All of the above are valid choices which may be acceptable choices for any given family. Some reasons may be considered to have more weight than others by a judge when deciding about spousal support, but that's not my place to say.

It doesn't really matter what I would find acceptable in my family. For me to support a non-working spouse for that long, there would have to be some serious extenuating circumstances or he would have to be the most stunning example of a house-husband that one could ever wish for (in which case why would I be divorcing him), but that's me. OP decided it was ok with her to do so, and that's the circumstances that the judge will rule on.

Thank you for your help EC...sorry I didn't put more into my situation...I am just a fool for putting up with this for so long. I don't know what else to say...

My husband came into the home when our 3 girls were 4, 6, and 7. Well past the baby age...all in school. I was on public assistance and living in sub-standard housing. I then had the opportunity to go back to school when they were in school and I worked darn hard at school, taking care of the house and kids and then school and work. Because of this I was finally able to get a good County job full-time. I begged my husband to either work over the years or get on social security. He tried once for SS in 1997 and then now. He sees a dr. for the legs. He has balked at working.

Will the judge look at the fact that most of the time we lived an economically substandard life? It has only been since 2004 that we didn't qualify for Medi-Cal/Foodstamps and that our quality of living was raised.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank you for your help EC...sorry I didn't put more into my situation...I am just a fool for putting up with this for so long. I don't know what else to say...

My husband came into the home when our 3 girls were 4, 6, and 7. Well past the baby age...all in school. I was on public assistance and living in sub-standard housing. I then had the opportunity to go back to school when they were in school and I worked darn hard at school, taking care of the house and kids and then school and work. Because of this I was finally able to get a good County job full-time. I begged my husband to either work over the years or get on social security. He tried once for SS in 1997 and then now. He sees a dr. for the legs. He has balked at working.

Will the judge look at the fact that most of the time we lived an economically substandard life? It has only been since 2004 that we didn't qualify for Medi-Cal/Foodstamps and that our quality of living was raised.

Those girls are NOT his unless he adopted them or he fathered them before you were married to him. Truthfully, YOU accepted him not working. You accepted him not getting a job. You accepted him being a stay at home spouse. You made that choice.

 

[Bali Hai]

Thank you for your help EC...sorry I didn't put more into my situation...I am just a fool for putting up with this for so long. I don't know what else to say...

My husband came into the home when our 3 girls were 4, 6, and 7. Well past the baby age...all in school. I was on public assistance and living in sub-standard housing. I then had the opportunity to go back to school when they were in school and I worked darn hard at school, taking care of the house and kids and then school and work. Because of this I was finally able to get a good County job full-time. I begged my husband to either work over the years or get on social security. He tried once for SS in 1997 and then now. He sees a dr. for the legs. He has balked at working.

Will the judge look at the fact that most of the time we lived an economically substandard life? It has only been since 2004 that we didn't qualify for Medi-Cal/Foodstamps and that our quality of living was raised.

Alimony factor: He is entitled to the same standard of living ejoyed during the marriage.

 

[metfan012]

IMHO, if you have been the breadwinning spouse for the majority of your marriage, it would be fairly certain that you would end up having to pay a reasonable amount of alimony/spousal support for them now.

You have supported your STBX throughout the marriage already, and it would be a foregone conclusion that since you have supported him for this long that you would need to continue to support them for a certain amount of time after the marriage ends.

I have to ask, why has your husband never worked during the last 18 years? While he claims disability, he has been turned down for SSDI already, which could mean they don't consider him disabled to the point of not being able to work. What EXACTLY has stopped him from actively seeking work and becoming employed before now?

Sandy...it's because, and I am really incriminating myself here, I am a dope...why work when you don't have to...I learned my lesson too late.

 

[Bali Hai]

Sandy...it's because, and I am really incriminating myself here, I am a dope...why work when you don't have to...I learned my lesson too late.

Yes, quite frankly, you are a rare one in the group.

 

[metfan012]

I'm amazed that you can support yourself, 3 adults plus grandchildren on $54k annually. What motivates you to get up in the morning and go to work when no one else in your household does?

I have to give you credit- I couldn't do it myself. Unfortunately, though, you will be expected to pay alimony as you have been supporting him throughout the marriage.

Good luck to you.

I am at wit's end Tuff! I find it very hard to get up in the morning and it wasn't so bad before because I was young! lol. I believe I should pay alimony but I am afraid it will be to the point where I won't be able to pay my bills. We don't have any assets besides my work car and 2 10 year old TV's, junk furniture etc. so no issue there. Just with alimony. Sometimes I think I should give up altogether.

 

[ecmst12]

It doesn't matter whether hubby is the legal father of these children at this point since they are all adults.

You need to tell your kids that the mom-safety-net has a time limit on it and they need to get themselves self sufficient ASAP.

There is no way that hubby is going to have the same standard of living as he has now unless he goes back to work in addition to getting alimony from you. Not realistic. You will need to speak with a local attorney to get a better idea of how spousal support is calculated in your area since local climates can vary dramatically. The most important thing that the state wants is for hubby to not need additional support from the government - this may or may not be possible given your income, depending on what the cost of living is like around there, but that is what they really want. But if he wants to be able to live as well as he is living now, he's going to have to either get himself approved for disability, or find a job that he can do sitting down.

 

[commentator]

My heart goes out to you. It is so much easier for some of us to try to be the little red hen and do it all ourselves than it is to get anyone else to do what they "should" do when they won't.

But the point is that you're going to have to quit supporting your children. They're the logical ones who are going to have to change their behaviors and standards, and the law does NOT expect you to continue your contributions to them. And it's not going to be particularly impressed with your standard of living was very low because you were spreading the only income coming in far too thin by sharing with these adults. Whether they have to seek public assistance or whatever, the law may ask you to give money to your STBX hubby, but it will never ask you to support your adult children any more than it is going to ask them to support you.

But don't give up entirely. You're on a long learning curve here. You had the courage and intelligence to go back to school and get yourself into a responsbile position and you probably do a great job of it. Us hyper responsible folks usually do.

Now it is time to move forward into a new phase, and eventually, it will likely turn out that you're much better off from making this new move even though it seems unfair and challenging at this time. After all, a drowning person will take their last breath standing on the head of person who has tried to save them. Your husband and the children you have trained to expect your self- sacrifice as a matter of course and to take you for granted will have to deal with it eventually when you are dead, after you've worked yourself to death for their benefit.

Why not take these new steps now and give yourself a chance for something different? Don't give up!