Wife leaving state shortly after divorce

[Zigner]

Even if it means there are no visitation plans at all? I find that a little conflicting with the research I've done on NH divorce cases.

A standard visitation plan can be set up with a contingency for changes based on permanent relocation of the NCP.

I would suggest that you take a little time "off" from this matter. You have a lifetime of dealing with this ahead of you. I know it's hard to see beyond the end of the week (heck, the end of the day), but in the long run, these decisions will be made.

YOU do not get to dictate the level of planning that the mother puts in to her future.

 

[Housefather]

Yes, you have emotions.
Yes, this is a very difficult time for you.
Yes, I do have sympathy (and empathy) for you.
No, I will not change my answers so they make you "feel better." You are on a legal forum that addresses legal matters. You got accurate answers from that standpoint.

You're welcome

Yup.
Good, but it doesn't show much in your post.
I'm not asking anyone to change their answers, just exploring angles for the sake of my kid's well being. Tell me you wouldn't do the same. This is not about me, it's about them.

Thank you.

 

[Housefather]

A standard visitation plan can be set up with a contingency for changes based on permanent relocation of the NCP.

I would suggest that you take a little time "off" from this matter. You have a lifetime of dealing with this ahead of you. I know it's hard to see beyond the end of the week (heck, the end of the day), but in the long run, these decisions will be made.

YOU do not get to dictate the level of planning that the mother puts in to her future.

Right. But I do dictate the visitation to an extent, in as much as she agrees with it, of course. (Barring any blow-ups, we are filing jointly, and hammering out our own plans). It's not about me trying to dictate her plans. It's about how the heck to hammer out visitation beyond her move.

From what I have been reading about NH divorce cases, my impression has been that if there is no solid visitation arrangements (basically the way she is planning this is to leave the moment the divorce case is done, but not final). That would mean that the visitation plan we come up with now, would be essentially void the moment the case is over. I would think that would influence the judges decision to grant the divorce.

 

[Zigner]

Right. But I do dictate the visitation to an extent, in as much as she agrees with it, of course. (Barring any blow-ups, we are filing jointly, and hammering out our own plans). It's not about me trying to dictate her plans. It's about how the heck to hammer out visitation beyond her move.

From what I have been reading about NH divorce cases, my impression has been that if there is no solid visitation arrangements (basically the way she is planning this is to leave the moment the divorce case is done, but not final). That would mean that the visitation plan we come up with now, would be essentially void the moment the case is over. I would think that would influence the judges decision to grant the divorce.

You DO understand that no matter what she AGREES to, she is under no obligation what-so-ever to actually visit...right?

 

[Housefather]

You DO understand that no matter what she AGREES to, she is under no obligation what-so-ever to actually visit...right?

*Sigh* (<-- not at your comment, but at the situation) Sadly, yes, however I don't believe that to be the case. I do believe she does want them to visit with all her heart. I'm just concerned she's getting herself into a situation where she won't be able to. That, I know, is not a legal issue.

That being said, it's kind of a non-issue (I think) with regard to the divorce case itself. What I'm getting at is that if the judge knows the visitation plan is only until she leaves the state, and there is no plan beyond that, which is soon, I'm thinking he may have a problem with that, not because she can just leave and not visit them, but because I have not granted her any rights beyond her leaving the state. And I can't do that until we both know what the exact plan actually is. The way I have begun writing up the agreement, it is only temporary until she leaves. There is nothing beyond that. She's read what i have so far, and agrees there is no way to write it up beyond her leaving. Not yet anyway. That may change by the time we get to court, but I doubt it.

Make more sense?

In other words, I'm envisioning the judge looking at the plan, then realizing that the plan is basically nulled soon after he grants the divorce. It would be as if there is no plan, I would think, from his perspective. That's what got me thinking he may not even grant it until there is a better long term plan arranged.

 

[LdiJ]

*Sigh* (<-- not at your comment, but at the situation) Sadly, yes, however I don't believe that to be the case. I do believe she does want them to visit with all her heart. I'm just concerned she's getting herself into a situation where she won't be able to. That, I know, is not a legal issue.

That being said, it's kind of a non-issue (I think) with regard to the divorce case itself. What I'm getting at is that if the judge knows the visitation plan is only until she leaves the state, and there is no plan beyond that, which is soon, I'm thinking he may have a problem with that, not because she can just leave and not visit them, but because I have not granted her any rights beyond her leaving the state. And I can't do that until we both know what the exact plan actually is. The way I have begun writing up the agreement, it is only temporary until she leaves. There is nothing beyond that. She's read what i have so far, and agrees there is no way to write it up beyond her leaving. Not yet anyway. That may change by the time we get to court, but I doubt it.

Make more sense?

In other words, I'm envisioning the judge looking at the plan, then realizing that the plan is basically nulled soon after he grants the divorce. It would be as if there is no plan, I would think, from his perspective. That's what got me thinking he may not even grant it until there is a better long term plan arranged.

Why can't you incorporation both long distance and short distance visitation into your agreement? Many agreements outline both.

 

[Housefather]

Why can't you incorporation both long distance and short distance visitation into your agreement? Many agreements outline both.

I'm in NH, she will be in Florida, living on a shoe string probably. If she were to wait a little longer, as she originally planned to do, and planned this thing better, financially and otherwise, we would be able to do that. Unless she comes up with a solid plan for the move, living arrangements, job etc. soon, I don't see any way it'll happen before we get to court. Thing COULD change by then, and I hope they either do or she smartens up and realizes she needs more time to do this right. The only other option I can think of is for her to forego all visitation once she leaves, and then trust me to set something up with her down the road. Not sure she trusts me that much though.

 

[Zigner]

I'm in NH, she will be in Florida, living on a shoe string probably. If she were to wait a little longer, as she originally planned to do, and planned this thing better, financially and otherwise, we would be able to do that. Unless she comes up with a solid plan for the move, living arrangements, job etc. soon, I don't see any way it'll happen before we get to court. Thing COULD change by then, and I hope they either do or she smartens up and realizes she needs more time to do this right. The only other option I can think of is for her to forego all visitation once she leaves, and then trust me to set something up with her down the road. Not sure she trusts me that much though.

You really come across as controlling. YOU don't get to dictate her level of planning.

What you do is to make the plan. If she can't uphold her end of it, then so be it.

 

[Housefather]

You really come across as controlling. YOU don't get to dictate her level of planning.

What you do is to make the plan. If she can't uphold her end of it, then so be it.

Did I NOT say already I am fully aware I cannot dictate her plan?

Good golly no. I WANT the kids to visit her. "So be it?" She wants to visit them to for gosh sakes! I'm NOT just doing this for them, it's for her too. This is not about control. It's about the kid's welfare, from an emotional standpoint, but it is also about the legality of BOTH having a plan that works for the court, AND works in reality, for ALL our sakes.

I don't know what you are reading between the lines. I've known full well I have no control over her for sixteen years. We ARE trying to work all this out TOGETHER. It's not me coming up with ultimatums for her to accept. We're BOTH simply trying to do what is best for the kids together. I am the one who now has the time to do the research and relay what I've learned to her while we hammer out the details as best we can, TOGETHER.

If that's controlling, I'd sure like to know what cooperation looks like.

 

[Zigner]

(Paraphrased) "If you can't plan out the next X years of your life, then we cannot come to an agreement about visitation."


Yes, you do sound controlling

 

[Housefather]

(Paraphrased) "If you can't plan out the next X years of your life, then we cannot come to an agreement about visitation."


Yes, you do sound controlling

Well, I'm sorry, but your paraphrasing is completely wrong. It is not about "the next X years." It is about getting this divorce over with, which is exactly what she wants too. All I am trying to anticipate is whether this lack of plan will affect that. That is her concern as well. We both want this over, and both want it over in a way that is as beneficial to the children as possible. We do have different ideas of how that should be, but I know fully well there is nothing whatsoever I can do to change how she sees and does things. I've already accepted that she's leaving, and that some pretty big things about the arrangements we come up with in the end, I will not like so much, but I HAVE accepted that. She has also accepted some things that simply by nature of benefit to the kids, she doesn't like, but knows must be done.

We have been compromising from day one. If you're reading into the question of the judge being able to stay her leaving the state for a while, or delaying the divorce, that is not about what I can do, it's about what the judge can or cannot do, and why, and how that will affect the proceedings, and the plans we come up with. I'm just trying to figure out how the next several months may or may not play out, and plan for contingencies. I like to be prepared. I hear planning ahead is a good thing.

Hell no. She's going to do whatever she wants to. I have actually been a little afraid of her getting herself into trouble legally by some of what she's doing or not doing. I've already let her go emotionally. I've NEVER had any control over her, nor have I ever wanted any.

 

[Zigner]

I don't know what I'm doing next week. Is that ok?

 

[Housefather]

I don't know what I'm doing next week. Is that ok?

you know what? You are the one who told ME this is a legal forum. That emotional issues don't matter here. Well, then, maybe you ought to quit playing psychologist? The emotional issues in relation to my kids are important to me. That is all.

Yes, I would prefer that she wait a while before leaving, as it would be good for the kids, but the question about whether the judge could do that was more about how it affects the proceedings, her plans and my plans. I don't really care what you are doing next week, but I do care what I'm doing.

Is that okay with you?

Oh, wait. Don't bother answering, because I really don't care. You really are crassly rude.

 

[Zigner]

you know what? You are the one who told ME this is a legal forum. That emotional issues don't matter here. Well, then, maybe you ought to quit playing psychologist? The emotional issues in relation to my kids are important to me. That is all.

Yes, I would prefer that she wait a while before leaving, as it would be good for the kids, but the question about whether the judge could do that was more about how it affects the proceedings, her plans and my plans. I don't really care what you are doing next week, but I do care what I'm doing.

Is that okay with you?

Oh, wait. Don't bother answering, because I really don't care. You really are crassly rude.

Alright then. Good luck!

 

[Ladyback1]

*sigh*
You can't make a parent, parent!

Forcing her to stay (by court order) might be more detrimental to the children. She might be resentful and angry with you, which in turn could most definitely effect the mother/child relationship.

Trying to force her to modify what she does, will backfire, I'm afraid.

And as hard as this is for the kids--might want to just let her leave/move. It's not worth the fight that will ensue.

Have two visitation plans in your back pocket.

Prepare your children as best you can, and get them in counseling NOW!