Deceased tenant, month to month, initial contract (not a lease) expired

[reyn562]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. )? SC

I am the executor of an estate of a tenant who passed away on March 15, 2012. He was living on a property owned by landlord, and has been living there since March, 2008. On December 16, 2009, he signed a contract with the landlord, which expired a year later but was not renewed. Instead, the tenancy continued on a month-to-month verbal basis. The landlord has been charging a monthly rent amount, save a small payment every month made on the tenant's behalf through the housing choice voucher program (formerly known as section 8). Furthermore, the utilities, save the cable and telephone, where in the name of the landlord, who would forward the bill to the tenant for payment. This would happen in the middle of month.

The landlord claims that the tenant owed him back rent, a claim he can never prove, plus the utilities for those months he so claims. He is also trying to charge rent in accrual of the time it took for me to clear out the home, as well as the utilities for those months – a total claim of five months of rent and utility, which will total approximately $500 per month. His total claim is $2670. I disallowed the claim completely. The big question is: how much, if anything, would I owe him ("I", of course meaning: the estate)?

 

[justalayman]

He is also trying to charge rent in accrual of the time it took for me to clear out the home, as well as the utilities for those months – a total claim of five months of rent and utility,

and the problem with that is?

The landlord could not rent the unit during that time due to the estate property remaining in the unit. The LL is owed for those months.

His total claim is $2670.

so, $2500 for the rent from the time of death until the unit was vacated. That leaves $170 for unpaid rent from previous time?

I disallowed the claim completely.

You were wrong to do that.

The big question is: how much, if anything, would I owe him ("I", of course meaning: the estate)?

You owe him at least the $2500. The remaining is very minimal amount. I would offer the $2500 and see if he accepts. After that, while you argue he can't prove your father didn't pay the rent, the more important issue is; you can't prove your father did pay the rent.

 

[las365]

the more important issue is; you can't prove your father did pay the rent.

The burden of proof is on the party making the claim.

 

[justalayman]

The burden of proof is on the party making the claim.

so, LL says:

guy didn't pay. He owes me.



You cannot prove a negative. It is impossible to prove one didn't pay you. You can make an allegation but it cannot be proven. That is where the burden shifts to the defendant.

 

[Just Blue]

Posting Hx.

 

[nextwife]

Why did the estate take so long to empty the property and turn it back over to the LL? The LL does NOT have to give the estate months of free storage. Been there, done that: when my MIL passed, we got her stuff moved off site to deal with later within 30 days, and payed the LL every penny he was entitled in rent. If you did not wish the estate to owes months of rent, you should not have tied up the unit for so long.

A storage unit is WAY less than apartment rent for months unoccupied..

 

[reyn562]

Why did the estate take so long to empty the property and turn it back over to the LL? The LL does NOT have to give the estate months of free storage. Been there, done that: when my MIL passed, we got her stuff moved off site to deal with later within 30 days, and payed the LL every penny he was entitled in rent. If you did not wish the estate to owes months of rent, you should not have tied up the unit for so long.

A storage unit is WAY less than apartment rent for months unoccupied..[/QUOT

First of all, the unit wasn't tied up but for four weeks, not four months. Second, there is nothing in writing that shows that the rent and utilities accrue after the tenant has died. Finally, the landlord didn't allow me into the property until I opened the case through probate-- something that didn't have to occur first-- which took 15 days for this to happen.

 

[justalayman]

Second, there is nothing in writing that shows that the rent and utilities accrue after the tenant has died.

what makes you think there has to be?

Finally, the landlord didn't allow me into the property until I opened the case through probate-- something that didn't have to occur first-- which took 15 days for this to happen.

that's because you had no legal right to enter the unit until you were appointed personal rep.

 

[reyn562]

and the problem with that is?

The landlord could not rent the unit during that time due to the estate property remaining in the unit. The LL is owed for those months.


so, $2500 for the rent from the time of death until the unit was vacated. That leaves $170 for unpaid rent from previous time?

You were wrong to do that.

You owe him at least the $2500. The remaining is very minimal amount. I would offer the $2500 and see if he accepts. After that, while you argue he can't prove your father didn't pay the rent, the more important issue is; you can't prove your father did pay the rent.

--The burden of proof is upon the claimant: he is the one alleging that the decedent was behind on rent. The dec. didn't keep good financial records, which is not cast upon me to prove the rent was paid. When the scales of justice cannot be tipped over, the argument favors the defense (or, in this case, the Estate).

The total claim is what he claims as "back rent," that he claims the decedent owed, something of which he has no proof, the four weeks that it took for the place to be emptied, and the rest of the month of May, which he claims he couldn't rent the home out until it was cleaned. The decedent died on March 15, 2012. The home was returned to the LL on May 9, following a liquidation sale of the personal belongings, a process which began on April 7. He never stated to me that the rent would continue to accrue: he only stated that he wanted the place emptied as soon as possible. I explained to him the process and he understood, not to mention he is twice-widowed and should be aware of probate process. Where did "your father" come from? The LL claims the dec. owed a small amount of the December rent, $85, and the full months of January and February, 2012, plus the utilities, which were in the LL's name but the bills would be forwarded to the tenant for payment. The dec. went into the hospital on February 28, 2012.

Again, it should be noted that this was a month-to-month, oral lease, as the original contract had expired a year and three months before my close friend's death. He's not only trying to charge "back rent," but he's trying to charge me "after-rent," which is not right. At best the Estate owes him the rent for the month of March, when it is provable the rent may not have been paid-- even then, I have no proof, because the dec. had a caregiver who made complete payment rounds when the dec. was in the hospital. The original contract never mentioned that the rent or utilities would continue to accrue after the tenant dies, including that the rent would accrue until the home is re-occupied. Even if it did the contract has long expired.

 

[reyn562]

what makes you think there has to be?

Quite simple: there is NO written contract which states such. In fact, in this case, there is no written contract-- period. And there are no laws which state that rent shall accrue as such. In fact, when you look at a rental agreement, and the law, Chapter 40 of the SC Code of Laws, you'll see that rent is paid in advance, so it is presumed to be prorated.


that's because you had no legal right to enter the unit until you were appointed personal rep.

My present landlord (I live in SC but am 2 1/2 hours from the deceased's landlord's location) told me that all I had to do was show the will and that would have satisfied the landlord's requirement. There is no law that states that one must be appointed to take over an estate, especially when time is of the essence for the removal of personal belongings.

 

[Zigner]

My present landlord (I live in SC but am 2 1/2 hours from the deceased's landlord's location) told me that all I had to do was show the will and that would have satisfied the landlord's requirement. There is no law that states that one must be appointed to take over an estate, especially when time is of the essence for the removal of belongings.

Ahh, you are one lucky person to have a LL who is also an attorney specializing in probate matters!

 

[reyn562]

so, LL says:

guy didn't pay. He owes me.



You cannot prove a negative. It is impossible to prove one didn't pay you. You can make an allegation but it cannot be proven. That is where the burden shifts to the defendant.

WRONG: When an allegation is introduced into court, whether a criminal charge, a civil complaint, or any other allegation, such as this Probate claim case, the burden of proof is upon the accuser or introducer of the allegation.

 

[reyn562]

Why did the estate take so long to empty the property and turn it back over to the LL? The LL does NOT have to give the estate months of free storage. Been there, done that: when my MIL passed, we got her stuff moved off site to deal with later within 30 days, and payed the LL every penny he was entitled in rent. If you did not wish the estate to owes months of rent, you should not have tied up the unit for so long.

A storage unit is WAY less than apartment rent for months unoccupied..

-- not when you have to also hire a moving truck and help to such storage facility. Again, it was not unoccupied for months.

 

[reyn562]

Ahh, you are one lucky person to have a LL who is also an attorney specializing in probate matters!

No, but my apartment manager, who has been such for over 30 years, has been through everything imaginable. Apparently the dec.'s landlord hasn't. By the way, are you an attorney?

 

[COlandlord]

The death of a tenant does not make the current lease void. A month to month lease is as valid as the original and requires that rent be paid for occupying the unit..duh. Of course the rent is going to accrue while the estate has it..thinking otherwise is silly. The estate is absolutely responsible for all rent from the time of death until the unit was cleared out and keys given back to the landlord. Why would you think otherwise? As for past due rent, prove it was paid..the landlord can't prove, nor is he required to prove that it wasn't.

"The dec. didn't keep good financial records, which is not cast upon me to prove the rent was paid": Actually, as the executor, it IS cast upon you if your disputing the charge.