Grandmother had 2 strokes, isn't mentally capable of living on her own

[CSO286]

<snip>

I am currently looking for the information on abandonment and neglect. I am also looking for any one I can call to get my grandmother the help she needs instead of dad leaving her here, by herself, and leaving everything to chance. She needs to be in an environment where she can be taken care of, that is conducive for her needs, as well as seeing that our needs are taken care of as well morally and legally.

Why should your father and impaired grandmother be responsible for seeing that your needs are "morally and legally taken care of"??? What obligation to you do either of them have to you?

 

[Gail in Georgia]

1. Move the girlfriend and her brood into the empty six bedroom house you have.

2. Continuing living with dad and grandma so you can take care of her while dad is on the road.

3. Visit the girlfriend when dad is home so he can watch grandma.

I suspect when these strangers (the girlfriend, the kids) are out of grandma's home (and I'm betting no one asked her permission when this group got moved into HER home) at least some of her anger and violence will settle down a bit.

Gail

 

[jayalan]

ok, first off, the kids are MINE. They have been here, on and off, since they were born ( they are 8 and 12 ).

If I leave, she will be ON HER OWN. The fact that she CAN NOT live by herself, is pretty obviously. She is legally blind, she can not drive, she can not read to pay her bills, she has had 2 strokes and has not re-gained proper balance, and fell last summer. I was walking in the door, heard her screaming, had to pick her up off of the floor because she had pissed herself and could not get up. She doesn't / cant remember to take over over 10 different prescriptions throughout the day. Her blood sugars are completely out of control, because she eats, forget she ate, and an hour later, eats again. Her A1C is over 11. Her average blood sugar is almost 300.
she refuses insulin.


The reason I don't want to move the kids is pretty simple. I have talked to my dad, he is only wanting us out to placate his mother. He knows she can not live on her own, he knows she is going to fall and get hurt. Basically, he is doing it so he can say " i told you so ", which is COMPLETELY irresponsible. I also do not want to move the kids out, to only move back in 3 weeks when she has her 3 night mental assessment taken care of when she is proven mentally incompetent.

If we were not here, she would get hurt. She is currently staying at my dads. My dad is a detail engineer, so he can work from home. My step mom does not work, so for now, she is getting 24 hour, around the clock help, until her assessment in a few weeks.

The house, as of today, is no longer hers. It is now legally mine. I went and set up an account, and put cash in it, for the appraised amount of the house. So if / when she goes into a nursing home or whatever, the cash for the house is there, ready to go for the house. Money is NOT the issue here, I have plenty of that. I just wanted to see that legally, everything was taken care of. That's all. Thank you everyone for your feedback

 

[jayalan]

Why should your father and impaired grandmother be responsible for seeing that your needs are "morally and legally taken care of"??? What obligation to you do either of them have to you?

she has none. that was worded poorly. I meant as far as piece of mind, so that we know she is ok.

 

[jayalan]

I forgot about these pearls...

Well, why IS she there??Video recording? For what purpose?
It IS her house!
Move the kids OUT!!Something seems pretty clear to me. And it isn't your concern for your grandmother.

My fiancee is here, because we DID sit down and have a conversation, between her, my dad, my grandmother and my uncle. We all at the time agreed that it would be most conducive for us to stay here to a) keep my grandmother out of a nursing home b) help out around the house because my dad travels all of the time for work, and so does my uncle c) provide her nearly around the clock care ( i work 1st shift, my fiancee works 2nd ). My fiancee works in a mental health home taking care of mentally handicapped people all day, so outside of hiring a home health nurse, she is a perfect fit for the situation. It is unfortunate that it has come to this.

I recorded her actions, thinking that if i showed them to her, she might get an idea of what is going on, and try to rationalize her actions and see that we have had the discussions before. It didn't work as planned.


Like I said in the previous post, THIS IS NO LONGER HER HOUSE! I purchased it today, for full appraisal price

Move my 8 and 12 year old out... To where exactly? Am I supposed to boot them to the street? That's cute.

And my concern isn't for my grandma? are you kidding me right now? why would I be so worried about her care and seeing that she gets the help she needs if it werent? I could have said " well, **** this **** " and moved out and left everything to chance. what the hell would that have proved? I do not need to live here, nor need anything from her or my family. Is it so bad that I want her to get the help that she needs, and try to avoid my dad just leaving her here to " prove that she can't live on her own, till she gets hurt " and risk her getting hurt or my dad getting in trouble? are you really that dense?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Wow, I think we are not getting all the facts. 4 days ago, OP was being asked to leave. Yesterday, his gf was being evicted and today he owns the place. We need programs.

 

[ecmst12]

How did you purchase the house? Did your dad OK the purchase? Don't let him lose track of that money, because whatever nursing home she ends up in is going to need it.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

'I said in the previous post, THIS IS NO LONGER HER HOUSE! I purchased it today, for full appraisal price'

Rather doubtful this closing took place all in one day.

"Move my 8 and 12 year old out... To where exactly? Am I supposed to boot them to the street? That's cute."

How about into that six bedroom house you mentioned earlier that you owned and that just sitting empty?

Lots of questions on the accuracy of some of what the OP is posting.

Gail

 

[commentator]

All this flim flam is due to Grandma goes in the nursing home= her money goes to the nursing home=she runs out of money and assets quickly= they put her on Medicaid=Medicaid puts a lien on her property. And this includes anything that she's had in her possession during the last five years. They're very familiar with what you're trying to do here, you're not the first person who's thought of buying the house from Grandma, or having her sign it over to you so that a nursing home doesn't get it.

Most nursing home/skilled care facility care is paid for by Medicaid, as most people run out of assets very quickly. It is very expensive. There's a five year look back on Medicaid, and they'll be able to see exactly what you've done as far as home ownership. And since you didn't start this asset transfer business five years ago, it's futile to try to keep her home until you get it done now. If she's supposed to be taking all these medications and she's legally blind and she's got blood sugar issues and she's got dementia, your father is not providing her with adequate care, from the sound of it, and she needs to be in a skilled care facility, NOT an assisted living factility.

In skilled care facilities, if the care is determined to be necessary by a medical professional, for example if the person goes from a hospital stay to the nursing home, then Medicare will pay for a few weeks of this care. After that, if the person needs to continue with the care, they'll take what assets they have, and then will go to Medicaid, which will involve the Medicaid program taking out liens on any property this person has owned in the last five years, whether it's been signed over to someone else or not. If it's been sold, they'll want the money from the sale.

It sounds as though you're one health care visit from the nursing home right now, whether that's what you want or not. Your grandmother does have medical care, we assume. Her medical professional should be able to see whether or not she's getting adequate care. Refusing her insulin, being allowed to dictate what she will and will not allow at this point should not be an option, though it sounds like your father is trying to let her figure this out for herself. if you want to get her more care without backing off and allowing him to follow through with his program of letting her have a health crisis to force her into a nursing facility, you'll have to work it out with him. If he isn't agreeable, the elder care protective services for your area will be your option.

 

[CSO286]

All this flim flam is due to Grandma goes in the nursing home= her money goes to the nursing home=she runs out of money and assets quickly= they put her on Medicaid=Medicaid puts a lien on her property. And this includes anything that she's had in her possession during the last five years. They're very familiar with what you're trying to do here, you're not the first person who's thought of buying the house from Grandma, or having her sign it over to you so that a nursing home doesn't get it.

Most nursing home/skilled care facility care is paid for by Medicaid, as most people run out of assets very quickly. It is very expensive. There's a five year look back on Medicaid, and they'll be able to see exactly what you've done as far as home ownership. And since you didn't start this asset transfer business five years ago, it's futile to try to keep her home until you get it done now. If she's supposed to be taking all these medications and she's legally blind and she's got blood sugar issues and she's got dementia, your father is not providing her with adequate care, from the sound of it, and she needs to be in a skilled care facility, NOT an assisted living factility.

In skilled care facilities, if the care is determined to be necessary by a medical professional, for example if the person goes from a hospital stay to the nursing home, then Medicare will pay for a few weeks of this care. After that, if the person needs to continue with the care, they'll take what assets they have, and then will go to Medicaid, which will involve the Medicaid program taking out liens on any property this person has owned in the last five years, whether it's been signed over to someone else or not. If it's been sold, they'll want the money from the sale.

It sounds as though you're one health care visit from the nursing home right now, whether that's what you want or not. Your grandmother does have medical care, we assume. Her medical professional should be able to see whether or not she's getting adequate care. Refusing her insulin, being allowed to dictate what she will and will not allow at this point should not be an option, though it sounds like your father is trying to let her figure this out for herself. if you want to get her more care without backing off and allowing him to follow through with his program of letting her have a health crisis to force her into a nursing facility, you'll have to work it out with him. If he isn't agreeable, the elder care protective services for your area will be your option.

Which means that the competent adults responsible for Grandma's care/in Grandma's home (you, your GF, and dear old Dad) will be investigated for elder abuse and neglect once APS completes that LTC screening. Oh, and possible financial abuse, too.

 

[cbg]

I have a question for the OP, and it is not intended snarkily - it's to try to bring some focus back to the discussion.

OP, when you posted for the first time, what answer were you hoping to get? Was there some solution you had in mind that you were hoping someone would validate? What would have been the perfect answer, in your expectations?

 

[anteater]

All this flim flam is due to Grandma goes in the nursing home= her money goes to the nursing home=she runs out of money and assets quickly= they put her on Medicaid=Medicaid puts a lien on her property. And this includes anything that she's had in her possession during the last five years. They're very familiar with what you're trying to do here, you're not the first person who's thought of buying the house from Grandma, or having her sign it over to you so that a nursing home doesn't get it.

While I'm certainly wondering about the "one day purchase magic" ...

If the Op did indeed purchase the house at fair market value (and grandma retains the sale proceeds), there should not be a problem. OP used the phrase "appraised value" which does raise some question, but...

That said, the whole purchase bit sounds like the OP making it up as he goes along.

 

[LdiJ]

While I'm certainly wondering about the "one day purchase magic" ...

If the Op did indeed purchase the house at fair market value (and grandma retains the sale proceeds), there should not be a problem. OP used the phrase "appraised value" which does raise some question, but...

That said, the whole purchase bit sounds like the OP making it up as he goes along.

I am also wondering a bit about the one day purchase magic, but yes, if OP purchased the house at fair market value and the proceeds are in grandma's name, then it would not fail a medicaid lookback at all. I just hope that if the OP did turn over the cash to grandma to purchase the home at FMV, that he did it properly so that he won't end up losing his money because the house never got properly deeded into his name.

 

[tranquility]

I am also wondering a bit about the one day purchase magic, but yes, if OP purchased the house at fair market value and the proceeds are in grandma's name, then it would not fail a medicaid lookback at all. I just hope that if the OP did turn over the cash to grandma to purchase the home at FMV, that he did it properly so that he won't end up losing his money because the house never got properly deeded into his name.

Well, a property purchase CAN happen in a day. Sign the deed, give the money--done. You don't have to have escrow to make a property sale. And, since I believe the lookback will get the money in any event, I'll just mention the OP could have given grandma a note for the purchase price and grandma either takes back paper or just reports it as an installment sale. (Heck, make the not a self cancelling installment note to make things more fuzzy if you'd like.) The house would have sold for full appraised value. The interesting thing is what happens when grandma dies and medicaid comes for the money. While I'm sure they can unwind the "deal", it could be a bit sticky for a while.

 

[ecmst12]

Yeah, there won't be a problem with Medicaid as long as a good paper trail is kept and dad can prove that the house was sold for FMV, and that ALL of that money went to Grandma's care.

I agree that keeping children in the house with a sometimes violent, confused older person can be dangerous and is not a good idea. Would be best to move the girlfriend and kids to the other house and OP can stay in grandma's house to take care of her, until everyone is ready to find a more permanent placement for her. There will be complications with moving her, it will very likely exacerbate her confusion and combativeness for a while, so transition will need to be done with care and someone will still need to visit her at LEAST several times a week - preferably daily.