Joint Legal Custody

[AlanSmith]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I recently received a final order for custody and visitation in NY. I have joint legal custody with final decision going to the mother. Primary residence of child is with the mother. I was hoping to get joint physical custody, but the minimum I would accept was joint legal custody, however, this is not joint legal custody as I understood it. I thought joint legal custody enabled both parents to discuss matters regarding the child's school, medical, or religion issues. I thought that if there was a matter that couldn't be resolved it would go to court and the judge would have final decision. In this case the mother has the final decision. To me this is not in fact "joint" since the mother ultimately will do what she wants. To me the final order says you have joint legal custody, but you don't have joint legal custody. With the mother having final decision what's the point of even putting joint legal custody on the order. I want to appeal and try to get joint physical custody. Would this be wise?

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I recently received a final order for custody and visitation in NY. I have joint legal custody with final decision going to the mother. Primary residence of child is with the mother. I was hoping to get joint physical custody, but the minimum I would accept was joint legal custody, however, this is not joint legal custody as I understood it. I thought joint legal custody enabled both parents to discuss matters regarding the child's school, medical, or religion issues. I thought that if there was a matter that couldn't be resolved it would go to court and the judge would have final decision. In this case the mother has the final decision. To me this is not in fact "joint" since the mother ultimately will do what she wants. To me the final order says you have joint legal custody, but you don't have joint legal custody. With the mother having final decision what's the point of even putting joint legal custody on the order. I want to appeal and try to get joint physical custody. Would this be wise?

Please keep all your questions in one thread.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/child-last-name-change-602537.html

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I recently received a final order for custody and visitation in NY. I have joint legal custody with final decision going to the mother. Primary residence of child is with the mother. I was hoping to get joint physical custody, but the minimum I would accept was joint legal custody, however, this is not joint legal custody as I understood it. I thought joint legal custody enabled both parents to discuss matters regarding the child's school, medical, or religion issues. I thought that if there was a matter that couldn't be resolved it would go to court and the judge would have final decision. In this case the mother has the final decision. To me this is not in fact "joint" since the mother ultimately will do what she wants. To me the final order says you have joint legal custody, but you don't have joint legal custody. With the mother having final decision what's the point of even putting joint legal custody on the order. I want to appeal and try to get joint physical custody. Would this be wise?

What is the mistake of law? Why do you want joint physical custody? What do you think that means? How old is the child? How often have you been in the child's life? Did you agree to joint legal or was this decided by the court? When did you receive the final order?

 

[AlanSmith]

What is the mistake of law? Why do you want joint physical custody? What do you think that means? How old is the child? How often have you been in the child's life? Did you agree to joint legal or was this decided by the court? When did you receive the final order?

I originally filed a petition for joint physical custody. Joint physical custody the child shares residences of both parents. The child is only 2 1/2 and I've been in his life from the beginning. Joint legal custody with final decision to the mother was decided by the court. I received the final order Monday before Christmas.

 

[Ohiogal]

I originally filed a petition for joint physical custody. Joint physical custody the child shares residences of both parents. The child is only 2 1/2 and I've been in his life from the beginning. Joint legal custody with final decision to the mother was decided by the court. I received the final order Monday before Christmas.

Quit starting new threads for every quesiton. KEEP all your questions regarding this child to this thread -- including about name change, child support and what not. Give a time line for the situation -- when you were with mother, how long you were together, when you broke up, when the child was born, how much time you have had with the child on a consistent basis, how far apart you and mother live, why you want joint physical and legal custody, when you filed for custody/visitation, when child support was decided, and all other relevant factors.

 

[BL]

I originally filed a petition for joint physical custody. Joint physical custody the child shares residences of both parents. The child is only 2 1/2 and I've been in his life from the beginning. Joint legal custody with final decision to the mother was decided by the court. I received the final order Monday before Christmas.

Appeals are costly and if there is no abuse of the Judges discretion ,mistake of Law ,or misconduct by the court , your appeal is likely to be denied.

Joint Legal Custody is usually meant for parents that can get along and decision making .

Having said that Major decision making should be agreed on , such as major medical , schools attending ( iffy ) , Etc.

Joint Legal affords you extra protection under the Law ,such as removing the child from the State with the intent to do so permanently ( does not cover vacations ).

Did your orders also include none removal of the child from the State permanently without your or the court's written permission?

If there is a problem with denial of visitation or an issue regarding a major decision that you two can not resolve ,you take it back to court for either a contempt for a violation or modification due to a substantial change in circumstances.

 

[AlanSmith]

Quit starting new threads for every quesiton. KEEP all your questions regarding this child to this thread -- including about name change, child support and what not. Give a time line for the situation -- when you were with mother, how long you were together, when you broke up, when the child was born, how much time you have had with the child on a consistent basis, how far apart you and mother live, why you want joint physical and legal custody, when you filed for custody/visitation, when child support was decided, and all other relevant factors.

The following is in NY. The mother had later filed a petition for custody/visitation which is what the final order said. I initiated the whole court process. I was with the mother from March 2010 - September 2010. We were not married. She found out she was pregnant September 2010. Son was born June 2011. Mother is originally from MD, but has been in NY for the last several years for school. After child was born w/o my consent she took him with her to MD for that summer of 2011. One major problem in this case was that she wanted to go to MD to live with child. I filed a petition for paternity in July 2011. Court was set for October 2011 I failed to serve her in time. Court set for January 2012. I was declared father in 2012. I didn't have paternity test since I knew child was mine. Got order of filiation in January 2012. Filed petition for joint physical custody. Prior to January 2012 I was paying her monthly since June 2011 and kept receipts. I also purchased supplies such as crib, stroller, diapers, etc. Although I was paying and we had worked it out the judge gave her the option to maintain working things out or putting me on child support - she chose child support. I first saw him twice a week for two weeks after his birth then she took him to MD. I spent about 2/3 days with him a week between September 2011 and April 2012 prior to visitation schedule. I currently see him for three overnights a week and I live about 12 miles from the mother in the same county. Long story short like I said before the final order is joint legal custody with final decision to the mother. She has primary custody and child resides with her. She cannot leave the state of NY. Our situation is joint physical custody I see him half the week at times him staying at my residence. I take him to preschool when he's scheduled and pick him up in addition to providing all care for him when he's with me. I have clothes, toys, food, etc. on my side and the mother has the same on hers. I give her money through child support plus I purchase items on my end so it's like I'm paying for two kids when there's only one.

This was a child custody case, however, the judge took into account an argument I had with the mother 8 months prior to our child's birth. I don't see how this argument was relevant. The point is I visited and I took care of my child when he was born and after and there's proof of that. I entered all receipts into evidence. This went to trial. The mother had nothing entered into evidence except for a picture of her and my son. Nothing she said could be proven. She basically told lies during the whole process. The judge also took into account that the mother said I refused to go to a family photo session with her and our child. This was false, she went ahead and had pictures taken while I was in route to the studio. The judge just took her word, she has no proof. I can prove through text logs that the mother was lying about this, but my text logs never went into evidence. Basically, the mother had a weak case she knows I was taking care of our child so her and her lawyer focused on relationship issues we had. This was a child custody case and the relationship was prior to the child's birth - how can anything of the relationship be considered? I forgot to mention too that the mother doesn't work just goes to school and not until recently has she had a permanent residence in NY. Prior to she had lived in four different places with roomates with our child.

Although I have time with my child and she cannot leave the state I still believe I'm getting the short end of the stick. In addition, since I've been paying since my child's birth I've never been able to take the child deduction on my taxes. She has always taken the deduction and never shared a penny with me. To me this is criminal especially she not working and we're not married and she takes a deduction that should be mine. I hope I painted a good picture of my situation.

 

[Silverplum]

The following is in NY. The mother had later filed a petition for custody/visitation which is what the final order said. I initiated the whole court process. I was with the mother from March 2010 - September 2010. We were not married. She found out she was pregnant September 2010. Son was born June 2011. Mother is originally from MD, but has been in NY for the last several years for school. After child was born w/o my consent she took him with her to MD for that summer of 2011. One major problem in this case was that she wanted to go to MD to live with child. I filed a petition for paternity in July 2011. Court was set for October 2011 I failed to serve her in time. Court set for January 2012. I was declared father in 2012. I didn't have paternity test since I knew child was mine. Got order of filiation in January 2012. Filed petition for joint physical custody. Prior to January 2012 I was paying her monthly since June 2011 and kept receipts. I also purchased supplies such as crib, stroller, diapers, etc. Although I was paying and we had worked it out the judge gave her the option to maintain working things out or putting me on child support - she chose child support. I first saw him twice a week for two weeks after his birth then she took him to MD. I spent about 2/3 days with him a week between September 2011 and April 2012 prior to visitation schedule. I currently see him for three overnights a week and I live about 12 miles from the mother in the same county. Long story short like I said before the final order is joint legal custody with final decision to the mother. She has primary custody and child resides with her. She cannot leave the state of NY. Our situation is joint physical custody I see him half the week at times him staying at my residence. I take him to preschool when he's scheduled and pick him up in addition to providing all care for him when he's with me. I have clothes, toys, food, etc. on my side and the mother has the same on hers. I give her money through child support plus I purchase items on my end so it's like I'm paying for two kids when there's only one.

This was a child custody case, however, the judge took into account an argument I had with the mother 8 months prior to our child's birth. I don't see how this argument was relevant. The point is I visited and I took care of my child when he was born and after and there's proof of that. I entered all receipts into evidence. This went to trial. The mother had nothing entered into evidence except for a picture of her and my son. Nothing she said could be proven. She basically told lies during the whole process. The judge also took into account that the mother said I refused to go to a family photo session with her and our child. This was false, she went ahead and had pictures taken while I was in route to the studio. The judge just took her word, she has no proof. I can prove through text logs that the mother was lying about this, but my text logs never went into evidence. Basically, the mother had a weak case she knows I was taking care of our child so her and her lawyer focused on relationship issues we had. This was a child custody case and the relationship was prior to the child's birth - how can anything of the relationship be considered? I forgot to mention too that the mother doesn't work just goes to school and not until recently has she had a permanent residence in NY. Prior to she had lived in four different places with roomates with our child.

Although I have time with my child and she cannot leave the state I still believe I'm getting the short end of the stick. In addition, since I've been paying since my child's birth I've never been able to take the child deduction on my taxes. She has always taken the deduction and never shared a penny with me. To me this is criminal especially she not working and we're not married and she takes a deduction that should be mine. I hope I painted a good picture of my situation.

I don't see, at all, where you have been shortchanged.

I also disagree that Mom deducting the child on her taxes is remotely "criminal." I don't even find it unfair. You were only declared legal Dad in 2012. Have you even filed a request?

 

[Zigner]

In addition, since I've been paying since my child's birth I've never been able to take the child deduction on my taxes. She has always taken the deduction and never shared a penny with me. To me this is criminal especially she not working and we're not married and she takes a deduction that should be mine. I hope I painted a good picture of my situation.

I hate to post this here when you have other prior threads...but I wanted to address this.

There is NOTHING illegal about mom taking the deduction and, in fact, it is actually the PROPER way to do things. The kid lives with HER, not you.

 

[TheGeekess]

I don't see, at all, where you have been shortchanged.

I also disagree that Mom deducting the child on her taxes is remotely "criminal." I don't even find it unfair. You were only declared legal Dad in 2012. Have you even filed a request?

All OP could get if he's allowed to claim Junior is the dependent deduction. Mom will still get the EIC, HOH, Childcare credit, etc.

 

[AlanSmith]

I don't see, at all, where you have been shortchanged.

I also disagree that Mom deducting the child on her taxes is remotely "criminal." I don't even find it unfair. You were only declared legal Dad in 2012. Have you even filed a request?

As far as you know is the judge correct in basing her decisions on arguments that happened in a relationship prior to the child's birth? As far as I'm concerned the child is who matters and like I said proof shows that I was taking care of my child. Why are arguments between two unmarried people before their kids birth relevant? Like I said before the mother had nothing in evidence but a picture of herself and our son. Why even with my evidence and me starting the whole court process does the judge take the mothers word over mine when she has little or no evidence or witnesses to prove her claims? I find this alone to be very unfair. I'm being judged by something the mother states I supposedly said before our kids birth instead of my ACTIONS when he was born.

 

[ecmst12]

Let me guess - you told mom she should get an abortion.

 

[Proserpina]

As far as you know is the judge correct in basing her decisions on arguments that happened in a relationship prior to the child's birth? As far as I'm concerned the child is who matters and like I said proof shows that I was taking care of my child. Why are arguments between two unmarried people before their kids birth relevant? Like I said before the mother had nothing in evidence but a picture of herself and our son. Why even with my evidence and me starting the whole court process does the judge take the mothers word over mine when she has little or no evidence or witnesses to prove her claims? I find this alone to be very unfair. I'm being judged by something the mother states I supposedly said before our kids birth instead of my ACTIONS when he was born.

I don't think you're understanding this.

The mere fact that you weren't married to Mom creates a question of paternity. And yes, the court can take into account behavior of each parent. Even before the child is born.

 

[TheGeekess]

I don't think you're understanding this.

The mere fact that you weren't married to Mom creates a question of paternity. And yes, the court can take into account behavior of each parent. Even before the child is born.

My first judge did. Made a verbal order that the father was not to know where I lived because of his behavior even several years before the mutual child was conceived (and that court hearing was 9 or so years after she was born). I also retained sole physical and legal custody.

 

[AlanSmith]

I don't think you're understanding this.

The mere fact that you weren't married to Mom creates a question of paternity. And yes, the court can take into account behavior of each parent. Even before the child is born.

No didn't tell her to get an abortion. Her case rested on a late night argument we had in my vehicle. She claimed that I was mad that I called her at my job to tell me she was pregnant. I wasn't mad that she called me at work to tell me she was pregnant, I was mad b/c she had expected me to drop everything and leave work at the time. A woman finding out shes pregnant is not considered an emergency situation to jobs thus I didn't leave work. It's not like she was having the baby and going into labor. During our argument in the car my accessories were on, but the car wasn't running. It was cold at the time being early fall so the battery went dead. I got mad that the battery was dead and I was in the town she lived at during that time which was 20 minutes away across a bridge. It was now 2am in the morning and the likelihood of me getting my car going was not good. This is why I was agitated. Of coarse she twisted the facts and lied making it seem that my anger was because I was mad she was pregnant. This is what my child custody came to be based on after 2 and half years in court - an argument in a car which the mother lied about the facts. The judge to me should say hmmmm... this guy started this court process so he likely had nothing to hide and accepted that he is the father by petitioning the court for paternity, he has a history of taking caring of the child - receipts totaling thousands, and he was visiting the child. Take all this together - does this seem like someone who argued and was mad with a mother about getting pregnant. Such a person would not have started a court process, would not have been paying for their child, and would not have visited their child.

I'm not a criminal nor had any criminal background, no alcohol or drug abuse, and no mental disorders - I'm just a honest working citizen. There was absolutely no reason the judge should make her claims weigh more than my evidence. She didn't have any witnesses no nothing and the judge automatically takes her word over mine based on what? I explained to the judge thoroughly what happened that night with my vehicle and looking back I just was wasting my breath. During the trial I was slow at first in recollecting the facts b/c this was an argument that happened 3 years prior to the court date. I also have old emails saved that probably would prove she was lying, but they never went to evidence those emails.

I find it very unfair that she went to court and constantly lied and twisted facts to her advantage and had no evidence to back her claims - after all you can't prove lies. I had plenty of evidence receipts in addition to all petitions I filed and more. Not all me evidence was entered at trial, but a good majority was and was plenty convincing to anyone on the outside looking in.