Cease and desist letter response

[Silverplum]

Consult an attorney.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

 

[STEPHAN]

The items that I sold were not counterfeit.

And how do you know? You would be surprised how many people I have seen in my industry who believe the product was okay, when it was counterfeit.

 

[quincy]

What would be their reasoning behind insisting I make a phone call to them? Is this to somehow try and intimidate or threaten me? Wouldn't this have to be put in writing anyway?

I have no idea why the insistence on a phone call. It is not a typical way for a rights-holder to contact an infringer (or someone suspected of infringing).

When you purchase legitimate items, you are allowed to re-sell these items (as is, no alterations). It is possible (I could check) that PlayStation has had trouble with counterfeiters and the items you were selling were believed to be counterfeits. Usually infringement notices will be sent AFTER one of the items being sold has been purchased by the rights-holder, however - this to support their claims of infringement.

I still recommend you have the notice you received reviewed by a trademark attorney in your area before responding to the person/entity claiming to hold rights. I would not delay too long on this, though. If you are dealing with a real trademark holder, they might lose patience and the willingness to settle (if, in fact, what you purchased and then tried to sell were counterfeit items).

 

[Frtransinc]

Thank you, I will consider consulting an attorney assuming I can find one whom I can afford.

 

[STEPHAN]

Thank you, I will consider consulting an attorney assuming I can find one whom I can afford.

You should ask yourself if you can afford to not consult an attorney.

 

[quincy]

Thank you, I will consider consulting an attorney assuming I can find one whom I can afford.

If you have a law school in your area, you might find some free assistance there.

There have been, as a note, bootleg PS2 controllers coming out of China - and Sony has an agency that patrols the internet and flea markets and stores to look for illegal copies.

One thing not mentioned, by the way: You can infringe on trademarks not only by selling counterfeit goods but also you can infringe on trademarks through the improper advertising of the items you have for sale.

You need to be careful in the wording of any ad so that you do not imply your goods are coming from Sony or Sony is connected in any way with your sale. If the use of a trademark is what is driving your sale (i.e., prominent use of the trademark in your ads), your use can infringe on the rights of the trademark holder.

Good luck.

 

[single317dad]

I bought them from a Chinese online marketer and they were so cheap I should have realized they were not official products.

A mistake I made only once. Live and learn.

Even if the controllers were really original and legit, I'm not surprised at all that a VERO and/or C&D was sent out. Sony is insanely overly aggressive on eBay auctions. I've railed against their own shady record on this forum in the past, and will withhold any further comment on the matter as my opinions would certainly be pretty disparaging.

Two (or two million) wrongs don't make a right.

Throw the controllers in the trash; they're not worth anything now. Whatever you're currently selling isn't worth the headache either.

 

[quincy]

A mistake I made only once. Live and learn.

Even if the controllers were really original and legit, I'm not surprised at all that a VERO and/or C&D was sent out. Sony is insanely overly aggressive on eBay auctions. I've railed against their own shady record on this forum in the past, and will withhold any further comment on the matter as my opinions would certainly be pretty disparaging.

Two (or two million) wrongs don't make a right.

Throw the controllers in the trash; they're not worth anything now. Whatever you're currently selling isn't worth the headache either.

I actually don't think Sony is any more aggressive than many famous-name trademark holders (e.g., Disney, NFL).

Unfortunately, these trademark holders HAVE to be aggressive, to preserve their rights in their marks.

There are many many people out there (looking at you here, China ) wanting to illegally make money off them.

 

[Proserpina]

I actually don't think Sony is any more aggressive than many famous-name trademark holders (e.g., Disney, NFL).

Unfortunately, these trademark holders HAVE to be aggressive, to preserve their rights in their marks.

There are many many people out there (looking at you here, China ) wanting to illegally make money off them.

(This is really going off topic but .. )

Since you mentioned China, I'm currently following what's happening on the counterfeit makeup scene. Yes, counterfeit makeup. A multi-million (billion?) dollar industry.

Too many people don't realize where their certain high-end brands actually are made or, perhaps worse, under what kind of conditions - and that's not even touching on the counterfeit versions (and many wouldn't be able to tell the difference).

 

[single317dad]

I actually don't think Sony is any more aggressive than many famous-name trademark holders (e.g., Disney, NFL).

Unfortunately, these trademark holders HAVE to be aggressive, to preserve their rights in their marks.

There are many many people out there (looking at you here, China ) wanting to illegally make money off them.

By "insanely" and "overly", I meant that Sony has a penchant for claiming copyright and trademark violations for things that don't violate either. I'm not overstating that; the company with one of the dirtiest histories of consumer rights abuses is also one of the biggest abusers of overly broad DMCA and VERO takedowns.

The NFL catches a lot of flak as the "No Fun League" for aggressively protecting their properties (and for some questionable rule changes throughout the years), and "Who Dat?" was certainly in the realm of Sony's daily activities, but I don't put them or Disney in the same class with Sony. There's a huge difference between actively pursuing justice (in the majority of cases) and lazily blanketing the planet with takedowns and demand letters that have no relevance at all.

Several of the largest media companies are, in my opinion, far worse than Disney and approaching the level of Sony in this respect. Lenz v. Universal is representative of the "injured class". That automated systems are used to send millions of takedowns makes sense; no human-operated system could possibly handle the workload necessary. What's most telling to me is that neither Sony nor Universal ever issues an "oops, sorry", even when they're clearly, wholly in the wrong.

 

[quincy]

(This is really going off topic but .. )

Since you mentioned China, I'm currently following what's happening on the counterfeit makeup scene. Yes, counterfeit makeup. A multi-million (billion?) dollar industry.

Too many people don't realize where their certain high-end brands actually are made or, perhaps worse, under what kind of conditions - and that's not even touching on the counterfeit versions (and many wouldn't be able to tell the difference).

Counterfeiters cost companies billions of dollars every year in lost revenue.

Many of the counterfeit goods (and dangerous goods) are imported from China and many of these goods will be seized at Customs. But this does not prevent counterfeits from entering the country entirely, or being sold in other countries, and it does not prevent domestic counterfeiters from profiting off the illegal goods they manufacture and sell.

It is a real problem without an easy solution. Wherever there is a market for cheap knock-offs, there will be people willing to make and market them.

We tend to read labels pretty carefully in my family, to see if the products have originated in China. After the recall of products with lead-based paints (often used on children's toys) and the toxic pet foods that had to be recalled after killing numerous cats and dogs, I do not trust the Chinese inspectors who are charged with ensuring the safety of their goods.

Not that this country is always terrific but laws exist and the laws can be enforced.

 

[justalayman]

(This is really going off topic but .. )

Since you mentioned China, I'm currently following what's happening on the counterfeit makeup scene. Yes, counterfeit makeup. A multi-million (billion?) dollar industry.

Too many people don't realize where their certain high-end brands actually are made or, perhaps worse, under what kind of conditions - and that's not even touching on the counterfeit versions (and many wouldn't be able to tell the difference).

so, if you use counterfeit makeup it makes you ugly? It doesn't really hide the wrinkles?

Oh, I see, a counterfeit trademark issue. My mistake.

 

[single317dad]

(This is really going off topic but .. )

Since you mentioned China, I'm currently following what's happening on the counterfeit makeup scene. Yes, counterfeit makeup. A multi-million (billion?) dollar industry.

Too many people don't realize where their certain high-end brands actually are made or, perhaps worse, under what kind of conditions - and that's not even touching on the counterfeit versions (and many wouldn't be able to tell the difference).

After just a very brief google into your topic, I came to the conclusion that it's on the level with one I have dealt with for years: counterfeit electronics components. In that case, someone usually steals a legit recipe or schematic from a larger company (e.g. Samsung) and goes to work for some upstart. In the first famous case of that in the late 1990s, we had to deal with horrible quality capacitors industry-wide for over a decade.

I'm not at all against rights holders enforcing their ownership in legitimate cases; I'm actually quite in favor of it.

 

[justalayman]

. In the first famous case of that in the late 1990s, we had to deal with horrible quality capacitors industry-wide for over a decade.
.

ahhh, I had to deal with that. Fluorescent light ballast use capacitors and there were a lot of bad ones on the market. Had some that didn't last until the end of the day. I had one customer (a social security office) where I would stop by every week just top replace whatever ballasts went bad. Usually 4-5 a week, until I replaced them all with newer ones after they figured out the bad capacitor problem.

 

[single317dad]

ahhh, I had to deal with that. Fluorescent light ballast use capacitors and there were a lot of bad ones on the market. Had some that didn't last until the end of the day. I had one customer (a social security office) where I would stop by every week just top replace whatever ballasts went bad. Usually 4-5 a week, until I replaced them all with newer ones after they figured out the bad capacitor problem.

That dirty capacitor recipe (the thief didn't have the formula quite right) spread so far through Chinese manufacturers that we only had one single source of actual quality capacitors, and their price skyrocketed. I had sold many hundreds of new PC systems before we found out they would all fail early, even those with top brand parts we had come to trust. Of the major manufacturers, only IBM never hit the capacitor problem, because at the time they still had their own PC manufacturing operations in the US. Now, every single PC, Mac, tablet, phone, and game console part is made in China and Taiwan, save a few of the chips. A repeat of that episode would leave us with no recourse to fix the problems.

There were whole months in the early and mid 2000s when it seemed like all I did was replace capacitors, which wasn't even my primary job.