Contempt of court: Perjury while on probation

[sgtpepper9999]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH

It seems that perjury is not often punished, correct? While perjury is considered a criminal act is has to be prosecuted by the district attorney and I understand they often do not have to time to prosecute.

But what if you commit perjury of a material fact while under oath and you are on probation for theft and deception?

I am involved with a case where this has happened. Ironically, one story was told under oath during a hearing (the false statements were also submitted in tge answer to the complaint) and those statements were contradicted in another case a month later.

They said one thing during one hearing and the opposite at another. Both are material facts in family court cases. One made during an ex-parte custody hearing and the other at a domestic violence hearing.

So, there is a contempt of court hearing scheduled for the perjury. What are some likely punishments that the judge may consider? Would the fact that this person is currently on probation factor in any way?

Can a judge impose jail time for perjury in a family law case or even revoke probation?

The perjury was about material facts in an ex parte custody hearing and the statements affected the outcome of that case.

Thank you for your opinions.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH

It seems that perjury is not often punished, correct? While perjury is considered a criminal act is has to be prosecuted by the district attorney and I understand they often do not have to time to prosecute.

But what if you commit perjury of a material fact while under oath and you are on probation for theft and deception?

I am involved with a case where this has happened. Ironically, one story was told under oath during a hearing (the false statements were also submitted in tge answer to the complaint) and those statements were contradicted in another case a month later.

They said one thing during one hearing and the opposite at another. Both are material facts in family court cases. One made during an ex-parte custody hearing and the other at a domestic violence hearing.

So, there is a contempt of court hearing scheduled for the perjury. What are some likely punishments that the judge may consider? Would the fact that this person is currently on probation factor in any way?

Can a judge impose jail time for perjury in a family law case or even revoke probation?

The perjury was about material facts in an ex parte custody hearing and the statements affected the outcome of that case.

Thank you for your opinions.

I was once involved indirectly with a court case where the perjury and fraud were so blatantly bad that the judge even yelled at the parties about it. However, no one was ever able to get a DA even remotely interested in prosecuting a perjury case, and they tried really really hard.

 

[Just Blue]

I was once involved indirectly with a court case where the perjury and fraud were so blatantly bad that the judge even yelled at the parties about it. However, no one was ever able to get a DA even remotely interested in prosecuting a perjury case, and they tried really really hard.

PxHx Indicates OP will do anything to see his Ex in jail.

 

[latigo]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NH

It seems that perjury is not often punished, correct? While perjury is considered a criminal act is has to be prosecuted by the district attorney and I understand they often do not have to time to prosecute.

But what if you commit perjury of a material fact while under oath and you are on probation for theft and deception?

I am involved with a case where this has happened. Ironically, one story was told under oath during a hearing (the false statements were also submitted in tge answer to the complaint) and those statements were contradicted in another case a month later.

They said one thing during one hearing and the opposite at another. Both are material facts in family court cases. One made during an ex-parte custody hearing and the other at a domestic violence hearing.

So, there is a contempt of court hearing scheduled for the perjury. What are some likely punishments that the judge may consider? Would the fact that this person is currently on probation factor in any way?

Can a judge impose jail time for perjury in a family law case or even revoke probation?

The perjury was about material facts in an ex parte custody hearing and the statements affected the outcome of that case.

Thank you for your opinions.

Speaking of "false statements" I think we are encountering some here.

For one, a DV hearing is not heard before a judge presiding as a family court jurist! Consequently, contrary to your representations there could not have been any false testimony given before such a forum in a DV hearing.

Then, you write that certain unidentified statements were contained in an answer to a complaint in one case followed by other unidentified statement a month latter in "another case" (providing no information whatsoever as the nature of either case) which contradicted the earlier statements.

Then you officiously judge which of the conflicting statements are perjurious and which are not.

And please let me make this obvious point. NO ONE in this heavily slanted scenario has been cited for being in contempt of court!

All we're allowed to assume is that one of the parties in a domestic case has filed a motion and affidavit for an order to show cause in re contempt. And just because that prerogative exists does not mean that the respondent is going to be cited for contempt. So all of your questions as to what might happen as a result are so suppositional as to be unworthy of comment.

And I'll add this (which you won't like either):

If you or anyone else thinks that the court in an OSC hearing is going to entertain a full scale plenary trial on the allegations that the respondent supposedly made false statements in any prior proceedings before the court, or elsewhere, they are going to sorely disappointed.

There are means of contesting and challenging intrinsic fraud when timely pursued, but contempt of court is not one of them.

Contempt of lies when the respondent has knowingly and inexcusably disobeyed a court order or directive. And is founded on the inherent right of court to enforce its own orders. And nothing of that nature is present here.

 

[sgtpepper9999]

Thank ypu

Thank you for the responses so far. Its helping me to understand more. Clearly, my original post lacks details that you picked up on. Instead of trying to look at specifics or speculate what my personal goals could be, Id like to try and understand something about the legal system that I am confused about.

I always understood that the premise of going to court and "getting on the stand" was to tell the truth. Swearing on the bible, so help you God, etc. With that being said, you are taught that lying to a judge is bad news. Obviously, people lie to judges everyday. In most cases I understand it is hard to prove and goes unpunished and ignored. Maybe I am naive but ultimately doesn't this destroy the basic principles of the courts? Why should you tell the truth if there are no consequences?

For example, let me break down my original post in a more simple fictional scenario.

1) Petitioner John takes Respondent Leslie to district court on a civil matter in family court. For some silly reason, the style of pizza ordered on Valentines Day is a material fact in the case. Leslie states in court it is cheese. Always was cheese no question. The judge makes his judgement based on this. John looses.

2) A month later Leslie is the petitioner against respondent Bill. It is a criminal matter. Again, the style of pizza on Valentines Day is a material fact in this case. The pizza in question is the same one talked about above. Leslie, under oath claims it was pepperoni....always was. Bill, also confirms it was pepperoni.

Didn't Leslie commit perjury in the first case? If the truth was told John might have had a different outcome. Shouldn't John take Leslie back to court for contempt or is it "tough luck" for John. Leslie lied....you loose. Leslie also is on criminal probation. How did the system work for John in this scenario?

I know using pizza is silly but i wanted to illustrate things very basic. I'd like opinions so I can understand why lying in court is unpunishable. Please, no need to be caustic. I'm trying to learn.

 

[stealth2]

Presumably, John and Bill ordered different pizza. Leslie and John had cheese, then Leslie and Bill had pepperoni.

Family Court is a different animal. It is presumed that everyone tells their version of the "truth".

 

[sgtpepper9999]

Darn. My "flawless" pizza scenario has a hole in it. Lets assume the pizza in question is the same. This is meant to illustrate Leslie is lying about the same pizza.

Presumably, John and Bill ordered different pizza. Leslie and John had cheese, then Leslie and Bill had pepperoni.

Family Court is a different animal. It is presumed that everyone tells their version of the "truth".

 

[LdiJ]

Darn. My "flawless" pizza scenario has a hole in it. Lets assume the pizza in question is the same. This is meant to illustrate Leslie is lying about the same pizza.

But which time was the lie? Was it a lie that the pizza was cheese, or was it a lie that the pizza was pepperoni? How do you prove which one was the lie? Or were maybe both lies?

Also, realistically your scenario is probably much less concrete than your pizza analogy.

 

[sgtpepper9999]

LdiJ,

Bill, also confirms it was pepperoni. Wouldn't that indicate that the pizza was indeed pepperoni....thus she lied at John's hearing?

 

[stealth2]

Seriously? Spit put the real situation, or take your pizza to a lawyer. We're not here to play games with you.

 

[sgtpepper9999]

Not playing games at all. Trying to break things down into very simple terms. Why is this so offensive to you? I'm not a lawyer but I'm not an idiot. I'm trying to get a grasp on why lying in court does not seem to be a big deal. I'm trying to figure out what incentive people have to be truthful in court if there are no consequences for being dishonest. That's all.

Seriously? Spit put the real situation, or take your pizza to a lawyer. We're not here to play games with you.

 

[Zigner]

Not playing games at all. Trying to break things down into very simple terms. Why is this so offensive to you? I'm not a lawyer but I'm not an idiot. I'm trying to get a grasp on why lying in court does not seem to be a big deal. I'm trying to figure out what incentive people have to be truthful in court if there are no consequences for being dishonest. That's all.

That would be a question to ask of the judges, prosecutors, and lawmakers in your municipality.

 

[sgtpepper9999]

I understand that I should get the local perspective and I might get different answers but I was more curious about the opinions in general. Does my fictional pizza story illustrate textbook perjury and should there be ramifications for lying in court?

I realize nobody is going to court over a pizza but replace pizza with anything else that might be an important material fact in a case. I guess I am trying to wrap my head around why perjury doesn't seem to be as serious of an issue as I always thought it should be.

Again, the old school vision of "swearing on the bible to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is kind of a scary premise. It just seems that that idea doesn't hold much water in practice.

That would be a question to ask of the judges, prosecutors, and lawmakers in your municipality.

 

[stealth2]

No one is offended. We just don't like wasting our time. No one is going to care about petty stuff like the kind of pizza ordered or what color shirt the kid wore. Really. If you aren't interested in asking a serious question laying the issues out? Pay a lawyer.

 

[sgtpepper9999]

Wow Stealth2,

The only way that I can see this post could be "wasting anyone's time" is if they choose to read it, totally ignore the question or offer an opinion and focus on critiquing how the question was asked.

My question is (and always was) related to perjury in the courts which apparently you believe is "petty stuff". Perhaps you do not like my "pizza scenario" but as I stated....I was just trying to break things down simply. Replace pizza with any material fact....it doesn't matter. The premise is the same. Lying under oath, to a judge, in a courtroom about a material fact of a case - petty stuff, right?

No, I am not going to place every detail of a real word case online, I'm paying a lawyer to handle that. Forgive me for posting a legit question and ask for opinions on a free legal forum online because I was trying to learn a little more on my own. Isn't that what this forum is for? Maybe I don't understand why this forum exists.

I am speaking intelligently, I am taking in peoples opinions, and I am attempting to understand from others. Why should I feel like I am wasting people's time just because I still have questions? Ignore my post and simply don't respond. Your time is so valuable.

I will say that when you *DID* comment on the scenario, you gave me an intelligent thing to consider. The idea of TWO separate "pizzas". I never thought of it that way and adjusted the scenario.

If you would like to comment on the underlying theme of this "committing perjury in open court" please feel free to continue to answer and I value all opinions and thoughts.

Unless I am to understand that lying to a judge or the theoretic scenario is - petty stuff.

No one is offended. We just don't like wasting our time. No one is going to care about petty stuff like the kind of pizza ordered or what color shirt the kid wore. Really. If you aren't interested in asking a serious question laying the issues out? Pay a lawyer.