Is Glitch in Software Billing Company or Consumer Responsability

[Earthboy88]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah

Do you have a claim in small claims court with the following scenario and who is at fault? If a company acknowledges a glitch in their software that handles billing and doesn't do anything to fix it who is at fault?

You receive a monthly bill or balance.
The bill (balance) is from a company that you pay service for but you may also pay extra to pay off goods.
If the company have a "Known issue" that combines the goods and service into the same balance, but don't bother to fix it or make amendments in your contract does the following have a case in small claims court.
1:You pay off the goods and your balance for the month becomes zero and they tell you your balance is zero
2: Your receive the next months balance and it's higher because the "Goods" you paid off is added onto that bill because they took it themselves to use what you paid for the good to pay for the service.
3: In the contract you agree to pay any surcharges that may arrive in regards to services but not goods.

If I pay my balance regardless if I paid towards the goods or service, and they tell me I owe zero for the rest of the month, and decide to double charge me the next month for the Goods I paid for because they used the funds I used to pay towards the Goods and used it to pay for the service even though I didn't do it, am I screwed or have a case? In my contract I do say I will pay surcharges for any services that may come up just services nothing about Goods, and in the economy goods and services are two different things. Would I have a case?

 

[Earthboy88]

I just found this in my contract, "You agree to pay all Charges we bill you or that were accepted or processed through all Devices on your account.". So under that, if they tell me my balance is zero, that means they accepted my payments correct?

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah

Do you have a claim in small claims court with the following scenario and who is at fault? If a company acknowledges a glitch in their software that handles billing and doesn't do anything to fix it who is at fault?

Do you have a legal action to pursue? Possibly. If there is a known glitch and the company is made aware of it and does not correct it, to the detriment of the consumer, the company could be held liable for any damages suffered by the consumer.

You receive a monthly bill or balance.
The bill (balance) is from a company that you pay service for but you may also pay extra to pay off goods.
If the company have a "Known issue" that combines the goods and service into the same balance, but don't bother to fix it or make amendments in your contract does the following have a case in small claims court.
1:You pay off the goods and your balance for the month becomes zero and they tell you your balance is zero
2: Your receive the next months balance and it's higher because the "Goods" you paid off is added onto that bill because they took it themselves to use what you paid for the good to pay for the service.
3: In the contract you agree to pay any surcharges that may arrive in regards to services but not goods.

If you did not pay off both the goods and the services but only paid for the goods, the company can charge you the next month for the services you did not pay.

If I pay my balance regardless if I paid towards the goods or service, and they tell me I owe zero for the rest of the month, and decide to double charge me the next month for the Goods I paid for because they used the funds I used to pay towards the Goods and used it to pay for the service even though I didn't do it, am I screwed or have a case? In my contract I do say I will pay surcharges for any services that may come up just services nothing about Goods, and in the economy goods and services are two different things. Would I have a case?

You cannot be charged twice for goods or services. If you paid for the goods, you pay for them once. If you did not designate that your payment was to be applied to the goods and not the services, however, and the company applied your payment to services, you would still need to pay for the goods.

I guess I am not exactly sure what you are asking.

 

[Earthboy88]

What I'm asking is this.
1)The glitch in their system is known and has been known for awhile and I wasn't aware. This one is a given.
2) I was paying off the Goods that month and not the service but my balance was showing as zero. So the Goods and Service were put on the same balance sheet but not separated.
3) I specifically chosen the Goods to pay off but the company still shifted what I paid towards the service, so even though I chose to pay off the goods they took the money to pay for the service and charging me for the Goods and not the service. So the increase in this months bill isn't for service that I didn't pay towards but the Goods that I did pay for. They shifted the money around.

What I'm asking is this, I called their billing and they are unwilling to work with me, so I will do a hand written letter that is required to me, if that doesn't solve this, do I have a case in small claims court?

I'm under the assumption I'm to pay monthly balance regardless, so If they tell me I don't owe anything else that months, isn't safe to say that I don't owe anything that month? I have emails, text messages, and their website saying my balance is zero.

 

[quincy]

What I'm asking is this.
1)The glitch in their system is known and has been known for awhile and I wasn't aware. This one is a given.
2) I was paying off the Goods that month and not the service but my balance was showing as zero. So the Goods and Service were put on the same balance sheet but not separated.
3) I specifically chosen the Goods to pay off but the company still shifted what I paid towards the service, so even though I chose to pay off the goods they took the money to pay for the service and charging me for the Goods and not the service. So the increase in this months bill isn't for service that I didn't pay towards but the Goods that I did pay for. They shifted the money around.

What I'm asking is this, I called their billing and they are unwilling to work with me, so I will do a hand written letter that is required to me, if that doesn't solve this, do I have a case in small claims court?

I'm under the assumption I'm to pay monthly balance regardless, so If they tell me I don't owe anything else that months, isn't safe to say that I don't owe anything that month? I have emails, text messages, and their website saying my balance is zero.

Oh. That does not appear to be a "glitch." That is the company requiring that you pay the full balance owing, which included both the goods and the services. If you did not pay the full amount billed, you have a balance owing (plus any fees charged for not paying the full balance). The company first applied the money you paid for the services you used, instead of toward the goods you purchased, so that you could retain the service (which might otherwise be discontinued for non-payment).

If the balance on your account showed a zero balance when it was not a zero balance, however, because you still owed for the goods, then I suppose you could argue any extra fees charged.

Is this what you are asking? Again, I am a bit confused by your question. And what sort of goods and services are you talking about?

 

[Earthboy88]

Oh. That does not appear to be a "glitch." That is the company requiring that you pay the full balance owing, which included both the goods and the services. If you did not pay the full amount billed, you have a balance owing (plus any fees charged for not paying the full balance). The company first applied the money you paid for the services you used, instead of toward the goods you purchased, so that you could retain the service (which might otherwise be discontinued for non-payment).

If the balance on your account showed a zero balance when it was not a zero balance, however, because you still owed for the goods, then I suppose you could argue any extra fees charged.

Is this what you are asking? Again, I am a bit confused by your question. And what sort of goods and services are you talking about?

According to their website and their service representatives "It's a flaw in their system and they are working to resolve it". From researching it's been around for years and they still haven't done anything about it. Paying off the Device isn't supposed to lower the service billing. It's a hosting company. I got some devices from them and I'm still paying it off. I'm trying to reduce my debt so I was paying off the devices to save me monthly. In the contract they specifically separate service and devices (Goods). Also in the contract I agree to pay any surcharges that may arise when it comes to extra fees related to service, nothing about devices. I specifically went to each device and paid them off directly, but because of their flaw in their system it lowered my monthly balance was also lowered. Even thought I specifically paid off the Devices and my balance was 0, I'm not sure what I owed for the service because far as I was concern it was paid because it was showing that I didn't owe anything else. But for some reason even though I specifically paid for the devices, they shifted that money and used it towards the service and in my next bill they are having me pay for the devices not the service. In my contract they don't have anything stated that I must pay any extra charges that may arise with devices. They specially separate the two. So they are technically double charging me on the devices and they shifted my money even though I specifically paid towards devices. Am I responsible for flaws in their billing system? If my balance (Electronic billing) says I owe zero, don't I owe zero for the rest of that month? In the contract it also says "You agree to pay all Charges we bill you or that were accepted or processed through all Devices on your account" , since my balance says zero doesn't that mean they accepted my payments? Am I responsible for flaws in their system? Also in the contract it says anywhere else other than the contract regardless if it's a representative or anywhere else, if it's not on the contract any other statement is invalid.

 

[quincy]

... Paying off the Device isn't supposed to lower the service billing. It's a hosting company. I got some devices from them and I'm still paying it off. I'm trying to reduce my debt so I was paying off the devices to save me monthly. In the contract they specifically separate service and devices (Goods). Also in the contract I agree to pay any surcharges that may arise when it comes to extra fees related to service, nothing about devices. I specifically went to each device and paid them off directly, but because of their flaw in their system it lowered my monthly balance was also lowered. Even thought I specifically paid off the Devices and my balance was 0, I'm not sure what I owed for the service because far as I was concern it was paid because it was showing that I didn't owe anything else. But for some reason even though I specifically paid for the devices, they shifted that money and used it towards the service and in my next bill they are having me pay for the devices not the service. In my contract they don't have anything stated that I must pay any extra charges that may arise with devices. They specially separate the two. So they are technically double charging me on the devices and they shifted my money even though I specifically paid towards devices. Am I responsible for flaws in their billing system? If my balance (Electronic billing) says I owe zero, don't I owe zero for the rest of that month? In the contract it also says "You agree to pay all Charges we bill you or that were accepted or processed through all Devices on your account" , since my balance says zero doesn't that mean they accepted my payments? Am I responsible for flaws in their system? Also in the contract it says anywhere else other than the contract regardless if it's a representative or anywhere else, if it's not on the contract any other statement is invalid.

What is the company that is admitting to flaws in their system? What are the goods and services being purchased by you?

I can only tell you that, if you have not paid in full for ALL of the devices you purchased and for ALL of the services you have used each month, you will continue to be charged for what is owing on either or both - with late fees being added for each month there remains a balance that has not been paid in full.

Perhaps you can have your specific situation (the contract you signed and the billing process used by the company) personally reviewed by an attorney in your area. You are obviously thinking that the company is doing something wrong. I guess I am not seeing the "wrongness" in what you have posted so far. Sorry.

 

[Earthboy88]

I called up their customer care, they don't have an agreement with me on file that I was supposed to sign when I got my devices, pretty sure I did, I wanted to get a copy of exactly what I signed. Not only do they not have that on file because the place I got my equipment from failed to file it, the two places I went to no longer have it either because they only keep for a few months and failed to file it. Since they don't have an agreement with me on file on the devices, does that change anything?

 

[Zigner]

I called up their customer care, they don't have an agreement with me on file that I was supposed to sign when I got my devices, pretty sure I did, I wanted to get a copy of exactly what I signed. Not only do they not have that on file because the place I got my equipment from failed to file it, the two places I went to no longer have it either because they only keep for a few months and failed to file it. Since they don't have an agreement with me on file on the devices, does that change anything?

Not if you HAVE the devices.

 

[quincy]

I called up their customer care, they don't have an agreement with me on file that I was supposed to sign when I got my devices, pretty sure I did, I wanted to get a copy of exactly what I signed. Not only do they not have that on file because the place I got my equipment from failed to file it, the two places I went to no longer have it either because they only keep for a few months and failed to file it. Since they don't have an agreement with me on file on the devices, does that change anything?

What company?

What goods? What services?

Have you paid in full for the devices you have?

Have you paid in full for the services you have used to date?

If you owe the company money, you need to pay the company this money before you will have a zero balance. Until your account is paid in full, you can be charged fees for having a balance outstanding.

 

[Earthboy88]

What company?

What goods? What services?

Have you paid in full for the devices you have?

Have you paid in full for the services you have used to date?

If you owe the company money, you need to pay the company this money before you will have a zero balance. Until your account is paid in full, you can be charged fees for having a balance outstanding.

I'm not understanding the "Pay the money before you have a zero balance". The balance is my monthly bill, if I get it to zero is it not paid? It's a month to month service, whether they combine the devices and service fees into one or not, how is it my responsibility? Don't I have 1 responsibility as a consumer to pay the bill/balance? Also If I have paperwork that I paid towards the devices and my balance is zero meaning I don't owe anything else that month. Also isn't also wrong for a company to shift money around? If you have documentation that you pay for devices but they themselves decide to use it for services and charge you for the devices again that's double charging. Isn't the customers responsibility to pay the monthly balance/bill and if they tell you it's zero, how is it you owe money for that month when they tell you that you don't? I'm just curious. I would prefer not to mention the company name, it's a big company and they are currently having other financial issues. I'm also curious on your reasoning on why you think it's okay for them to do that? Are you putting yourself in the companies shoes or the customer? This will probably show what I'm talking about.

Supposed to be:

Service/Monthly Payments on device = Balance
Owed Device Amount = Separate

What it's doing:
Service/Monthly Payments/Device Amount = Balance

Balance (Bill) as a customer is what I'm supposed to pay every month, if I'm told that I have a balance of zero and I'm paid for the month, why pay otherwise? Why is a flaw in their system responsibility of the consumer?

 

[Zigner]

I'll try one more time before I chalk this up to just another person trying to weasel out of what they know they owe.

You buy a yellow widget from XYZ on account. Then, later that day, you buy an extended service contract from XYZ on account. You know them a total of the cost of the yellow widget plus the cost of the service contract.

Now, let's say that XYZ messes up (you know...a clerical error...) and sends you a bill that doesn't include the cost of the service plan. Then, they catch their error and send you a bill for the service plan. You still owe for the service plan.

Get it?

 

[Earthboy88]

I'll try one more time before I chalk this up to just another person trying to weasel out of what they know they owe.

You buy a yellow widget from XYZ on account. Then, later that day, you buy an extended service contract from XYZ on account. You know them a total of the cost of the yellow widget plus the cost of the service contract.

Now, let's say that XYZ messes up (you know...a clerical error...) and sends you a bill that doesn't include the cost of the service plan. Then, they catch their error and send you a bill for the service plan. You still owe for the service plan.

Get it?

Except there is a difference in this scenario and what I'm going through. "Then, they catch their error and send you a bill for the service plan", they caught the error. Is there not difference between an occasional hiccup vs something that happens everyday to over 150 million people that has been around for over 3+ years? This isn't a one time thing that has happen to me, it happens and can happen to everyone who uses them. When does it become a hiccup vs an everyday thing? Over 150 million people use this company, and this issue has been around for several years, they just haven't done anything about it. So when does it go from just being a hiccup to just bad practice/management? As a consumer isn't the only thing I worry about is the bill and balance on what they send me considering they just refuse to fix the problem in their software or put it in their agreement? it's been around for a few years and they still havn't updated their service agreement on it. Also is it not wrong for the company to shift money around like that? If you paid for something is it not wrong for them to take it out and put it somewhere else as they please?

 

[Earthboy88]

I'll try one more time before I chalk this up to just another person trying to weasel out of what they know they owe.

You buy a yellow widget from XYZ on account. Then, later that day, you buy an extended service contract from XYZ on account. You know them a total of the cost of the yellow widget plus the cost of the service contract.

Now, let's say that XYZ messes up (you know...a clerical error...) and sends you a bill that doesn't include the cost of the service plan. Then, they catch their error and send you a bill for the service plan. You still owe for the service plan.

Get it?

I'm not trying to weasel out of what I owe. I pay my monthly service every month. I even know in the agreement while I fight this that I still have to pay this and I still will. I'm just saying isn't what I owe every month the bill they send me and the balance that I can view online at any time? It's one thing if it was a hiccup, it's another if it's daily for over 4 years to over 150 million people? I would be okay with it if they would atleast update their terms and agreement but they havn't either. Even if the fix in the software takes a long time to fix, that is the least they could do right?

 

[Zigner]

As a consumer isn't the only thing I worry about is the bill and balance on what they send me...

No, as a consumer, your job is to be aware of what you owe.