MIP in MICHIGAN but lives in Ohio.

[kttrumbo]

mip

You said it was a jar. What alcoholic beverage comes in a jar?

It sounded to me as if the liquid was placed in the jar to camouflage it, and if that was the case it certainly was not sealed.

♏Moonshine comes in a jar..

 

[not2cleverRed]

♏Moonshine comes in a jar..

Are you saying your daughter had a jar of moonshine?

 

[quincy]

♏Moonshine comes in a jar..

If there was alcohol in the vehicle and not in the trunk of the car, your daughter was rightly charged with an MIP. She was in possession of alcohol.

You might want to advise your daughter of the possible ramifications of her choice to drive with her drunk friends. If convicted under State law, your daughter can lose any financial aid or scholarships she has relied on. She faces disciplinary actions by the school. Car insurance rates, already high for teens, will be higher. If she is looking to get a loan, the interest rates can be higher. Landlords may not want to rent to her. Canada can deny her entry.

The list goes on.

I suggest, instead of arguing with forum members or trying to justify your daughter's violation of the law, you spend your time instead helping your daughter find an attorney in the city where she attends school.

Good luck.

 

[kttrumbo]

mip

If there was alcohol in the vehicle and not in the trunk of the car, your daughter was rightly charged with an MIP. She was in possession of alcohol.

You might want to advise your daughter of the possible ramifications of her choice to drive with her drunk friends. If convicted under State law, your daughter can lose any financial aid or scholarships she has relied on. She faces disciplinary actions by the school. Car insurance rates, already high for teens, will be higher. If she is looking to get a loan, the interest rates can be higher. Landlords may not want to rent to her. Canada can deny her entry.

The list goes on.

I suggest, instead of arguing with forum members or trying to justify your daughter's violation of the law, you spend your time instead helping your daughter find an attorney in the city where she attends school.

Good luck.

How does the school get notified? Does the court notify them and how do they know where she attends? And Im not trying to justify anything. But how can the courts prove what belonged to whom in the car?

 

[kttrumbo]

Mip

Are you saying your daughter had a jar of moonshine?

No Im saying there was one on the floor. The kids in the back were caught with empty beer cans in their bags but didnt even get anything!

 

[quincy]

How does the school get notified? Does the court notify them and how do they know where she attends?

The police will often have agreements with the schools to notify them of the arrests/charges of students.

As a note: I looked up the citation numbers and your daughter was apparently charged for the MIP under a Mt. Pleasant city ordinance (132.03A). The State charge would be 436. 1703. For a first offense under the city ordinance, your daughter is looking at serving community service hours and paying a $100 fine.

But your daughter was also charged with a State misdemeanor open container (257.624A), transporting or possessing alcohol in an open or uncapped container or container with the seal broken. This is the more serious offense and, understandably, the one that concerns you the most.

What your daughter's attorney will look at, in addition to the reason for the stop, is the evidence that is said to support the open container charge. If anyone in the vehicle had an open container (an opened beer, an unsealed jar of alcohol, a cup of alcohol, a broken-sealed bottle), the charge can be against all in the vehicle. Again, alcohol must be transported in a vehicle's trunk (or locked glovebox).

The school has a student legal services department. Your daughter can find assistance there.

 

[justalayman]

And she was not intoxicated but the jar was on the floor by her feet. She was the passenger[\QUOTE]

Is your argument she wasn't actively holding the container? How can she argue it wasn't hers? It wasn't within reach of anybody else.

Sometimes the term "constructive possession" is used. If it is clear or obvious she had control of the jar it is considered to be constructive possession. It still is considered to be possession.

 

[quincy]

Is your argument she wasn't actively holding the container? How can she argue it wasn't hers? It wasn't within reach of anybody else.

Sometimes the term "constructive possession" is used. If it is clear or obvious she had control of the jar it is considered to be constructive possession. It still is considered to be possession.

It appears the mom's concern is more with the "open container" charge but, if there were opened beer cans in the back seat with the drunk friends - whether the beer had been consumed already or not - that supports open container charges for all in the vehicle. Just like joints, cans of beer or bottles of alcohol (or jars of moonshine) can be passed back and forth between passengers.

There is a chance an attorney can help the daughter get the charge dismissed - but I wouldn't count on this happening.

 

[kttrumbo]

Mip

The beer was consumed by the 2 in the back seat and they had empty cans. No one else in the car got cited,only my daughter. She said the two fessed up but my daughtered denied.How can they prove the container was hers? Just becausebthe others claimed theirs.

 

[quincy]

The beer was consumed by the 2 in the back seat and they had empty cans. No one else in the car got cited,only my daughter. She said the two fessed up but my daughtered denied.How can they prove the container was hers? Just becausebthe others claimed theirs.

The container does not have to be hers for your daughter to be charged. It was in the vehicle. That is all that matters.

By the way, if your daughter's friends are Michigan residents, I suspect they will receive citations in the mail.

 

[justalayman]

The beer was consumed by the 2 in the back seat and they had empty cans. No one else in the car got cited,only my daughter. She said the two fessed up but my daughtered denied.How can they prove the container was hers? Just becausebthe others claimed theirs.

Regarding the jar;

As I described. Being at her feet provides for constructive possession. In fact, unless this is a vehicle that seats 3 in the front (fairly unusual today), it would be diffficult to pin possession of the jar on anybody else. It was easily within her reach but inaccessible to any other. That makes it hers

 

[quincy]

Regarding the jar;

As I described. Being at her feet provides for constructive possession. In fact, unless this is a vehicle that seats 3 in the front (fairly unusual today), it would be diffficult to pin possession of the jar on anybody else. It was easily within her reach but inaccessible to any other. That makes it hers

Even without any jar of alcohol on the floor by the daughter's feet - even if there were ONLY the empty beer cans with the friends in the back seat - ALL of the students in the vehicle legitimately can be charged with minor in possession and transporting/possession of unsealed containers of alcohol.

The alcohol ONLY needs to be accessible to the minor, as would be the case if alcohol was with a back seat passenger. It is within easy passing distance to a front seat passenger and the driver.

The only safe way to have alcohol in a car is to transport it in the trunk.

 

[justalayman]

Even without any jar of alcohol on the floor by the daughter's feet - even if there were ONLY the empty beer cans with the friends in the back seat - ALL of the students in the vehicle legitimately can be charged with minor in possession and transporting/possession of unsealed containers of alcohol.

The alcohol ONLY needs to be accessible to the minor, as would be the case if alcohol was with a back seat passenger. It is within easy passing distance to a front seat passenger and the driver.

The only safe way to have alcohol in a car is to transport it in the trunk.

I get it Quincy. I see the op not getting it so it becomes more simple to speak of the jar which was clearly in control of the daughter which makes it hers more so than belonging to anybody else. Op wants to argue "but it wasn't hers because she wasn't holding it" argument. It was more here than anybody else's given it as located in an area only she had reaching distance access to.

 

[quincy]

I get it Quincy. I see the op not getting it so it becomes more simple to speak of the jar which was clearly in control of the daughter which makes it hers more so than belonging to anybody else. Op wants to argue "but it wasn't hers because she wasn't holding it" argument. It was more here than anybody else's given it as located in an area only she had reaching distance access to.

I understand what you are saying but there appears to be a fixation on the jar and the location of the jar is NOT important to the charge.

The possession and transportation of alcohol charges can come with any opened/unsealed alcohol anywhere in the car except for the trunk. One opened empty beer can in the back seat supports both charges for all of those in the vehicle.

For example, the driver or the daughter easily could have polished off the beer and passed the empty to one of the passengers in the back.

 

[CdwJava]

While it might be theoretically possible to charge everyone in a car with the possession of the alcohol container, I have found most prosecutors (and probably most courts) do not like that shotgun approach. To be more certain of a filing, you narrow it down to the person who had immediate access - in this case, that is apparently the OP's daughter. And, it might be that the daughter even indicated she was aware of the jar and what it contained, even though it was not hers. People sometime forget that "possession" does NOT mean "ownership". Itmeans only that constructive possession (dominion and control) of the item in question.

The "empty" beer cans in the back cannot be charged as an open container because, well, they are empty. Unless, of course, the law in MI covers the possession of empty beer cans (which might make dumpster diving and recycling a legally vexing occupation).

I agree that the daughter needs to look into the possibility of consulting an attorney. There may be available diversion programs or other options to help keep this off of any permanent record.

As for notifying her school, I don't know that would happen. The state is under no obligation to seek out a defendant's employment or school info (and we never sought it for notification purposes), and a defendant is under no legal obligation in MI (that I know of) to supply this info to the police. I DO know that in my state the police do not regularly make such notifications, and it is arguable that such a contact for no legitimate enforcement purpose could be seen as some form of unlawful harassment ... the term escapes me as it has been a long night. A University officer, on the other hand, likely could potentially report the offense to the university as a matter of course.