Being sued by collections agency over unpaid public defender fees.

[NeelyC]

When I was 20 (7 years ago) I was involved in a criminal trial, I used a Public Defender to represent me. After I was found guilty I was ordered to pay around 2500 dollars in retribution, lawyer fees, etc. All normal, until he read off over 5000 dollars in dues. They were attributed to actions the lawyer took, included blowing up 28 checks into giant lottery style checks in order to display the signature to the jury, for around 3000 dollars (In my mind 12 magnifying glasses for the jury and a white board to indicate where to look would of been fine.) The rest of the dues were attributed to flying out a lawyer buddy of my Public Defender to read of some laws and assure the jury that according to the account holders statement indicating I had authorization to sign, and our plan to repay the funds (lack of intent) means I shouldn't be criminally liable. Either way, to me these two expenditures are extremely inappropriate, he could of made the case himself instead of having a random buddy come testify as an expert witness. Its been a long time now, but Im being sued by the collections agency for not paying these funds that the judge did not order. What can I do? Is it too late to fight this all the way? When I tried to appeal my case I was charged with a felony and told to drop it and they will drop the charges. What can I do? (State South Dakota)

 

[LdiJ]

When I was 20 (7 years ago) I was involved in a criminal trial, I used a Public Defender to represent me. After I was found guilty I was ordered to pay around 2500 dollars in retribution, lawyer fees, etc. All normal, until he read off over 5000 dollars in dues. They were attributed to actions the lawyer took, included blowing up 28 checks into giant lottery style checks in order to display the signature to the jury, for around 3000 dollars (In my mind 12 magnifying glasses for the jury and a white board to indicate where to look would of been fine.) The rest of the dues were attributed to flying out a lawyer buddy of my Public Defender to read of some laws and assure the jury that according to the account holders statement indicating I had authorization to sign, and our plan to repay the funds (lack of intent) means I shouldn't be criminally liable. Either way, to me these two expenditures are extremely inappropriate, he could of made the case himself instead of having a random buddy come testify as an expert witness. Its been a long time now, but Im being sued by the collections agency for not paying these funds that the judge did not order. What can I do? Is it too late to fight this all the way? When I tried to appeal my case I was charged with a felony and told to drop it and they will drop the charges. What can I do?

You need to get a copy of the court records so that you know for sure exactly what the judge ordered. You are not obligated to pay anything that you were not ordered to pay. A Public Defender is supposed to be free, even if you are guilty.

 

[Ohiogal]

When I was 20 (7 years ago) I was involved in a criminal trial, I used a Public Defender to represent me. After I was found guilty I was ordered to pay around 2500 dollars in retribution, lawyer fees, etc. All normal, until he read off over 5000 dollars in dues. They were attributed to actions the lawyer took, included blowing up 28 checks into giant lottery style checks in order to display the signature to the jury, for around 3000 dollars (In my mind 12 magnifying glasses for the jury and a white board to indicate where to look would of been fine.) The rest of the dues were attributed to flying out a lawyer buddy of my Public Defender to read of some laws and assure the jury that according to the account holders statement indicating I had authorization to sign, and our plan to repay the funds (lack of intent) means I shouldn't be criminally liable. Either way, to me these two expenditures are extremely inappropriate, he could of made the case himself instead of having a random buddy come testify as an expert witness. Its been a long time now, but Im being sued by the collections agency for not paying these funds that the judge did not order. What can I do? Is it too late to fight this all the way? When I tried to appeal my case I was charged with a felony and told to drop it and they will drop the charges. What can I do?

YOu cannot appeal the criminal charges. Ignore LD in that respect. You may be able to dispute the debt. But you need to follow the law to do so.

 

[NeelyC]

YOu cannot appeal the criminal charges. Ignore LD in that respect. You may be able to dispute the debt. But you need to follow the law to do so.

Sorry I didn't make it clear, I just want to fight the debt because I believe it was over the top and unnecessary. I am not looking to appeal the criminal charges, just trying to explain the situation. I understand I need to follow the law, and not to sound rude, but how does that help me? I don't understand the procedure, or if I even have a case, that's my question. After 6-7 years of ignoring it I'm now being sued, and I want to fight it, representing myself. The grounds being that it was beyond the scope of what was necessary and way more money than needed to be spent. Do you believe I have a case?

 

[NeelyC]

You need to get a copy of the court records so that you know for sure exactly what the judge ordered. You are not obligated to pay anything that you were not ordered to pay. A Public Defender is supposed to be free, even if you are guilty.

The Judge said he could not include certain charges (the ones I believe were unnecessary and not agreed upon) and mentioned the public defender would need to send it to the auditor. (Still confused why? Why couldn't he include it in my criminal judgment?)

 

[LdiJ]

The Judge said he could not include certain charges (the ones I believe were unnecessary and not agreed upon) and mentioned the public defender would need to send it to the auditor. (Still confused why? Why couldn't he include it in my criminal judgment?)

My interpretation of that would be the judge saying that he couldn't order you to pay those fees and that the public defender had to attempt to be reimbursed by the state auditor.

However, that is truly a guess and a guess based on not knowing exactly what your original conviction actually ordered you to pay. You really do need to get a copy of your court file, and probably should run it by a local attorney if the language is not clear.

 

[quincy]

You need to get a copy of the court records so that you know for sure exactly what the judge ordered. You are not obligated to pay anything that you were not ordered to pay. A Public Defender is supposed to be free, even if you are guilty.

LdiJ, what I have bolded above is not true in South Dakota (or, for that matter, in many other states).

South Dakota public defenders are not free. Defendants are sent bills for the public defenders' services and the defendants are expected to pay. The State is the debt collector. Failure to pay what is owed can result in assorted license suspensions.

Here is a link to the South Dakota Obligation Recovery Center: https://boa.sd.gov/divisions/obligation/

NeelyC, you may have more success trying to work out a payment plan that is easier on your budget than trying to get a reduction in the amount owed. There are contact addresses and numbers in the link provided where you could find some direction.

Good luck.

 

[NeelyC]

LdiJ, what I have bolded above is not true in South Dakota (or, for that matter, in many other states).

South Dakota public defenders are not free. Defendants are sent bills for the public defenders' services and the defendants are expected to pay. The State is the debt collector. Failure to pay what is owed can result in assorted license suspensions.

Here is a link to the South Dakota Obligation Recovery Center: https://boa.sd.gov/divisions/obligation/

NeelyC, you may have more success trying to work out a payment plan that is easier on your budget than trying to get a reduction in the amount owed. There are contact addresses and numbers in the link provided where you could find some direction.

Good luck.

They did not refer the debt to the BOA. It is through a local debt collector. I'm not trying to get a reduction, I'm trying to win in totality on the grounds that it was irresponsible spending that I never agreed to. I believe lawyers are required to provide me with an agreement prior to big expenditures that I've not approved. Is that correct or incorrect?

 

[NeelyC]

My interpretation of that would be the judge saying that he couldn't order you to pay those fees and that the public defender had to attempt to be reimbursed by the state auditor.

However, that is truly a guess and a guess based on not knowing exactly what your original conviction actually ordered you to pay. You really do need to get a copy of your court file, and probably should run it by a local attorney if the language is not clear.

Thank you. The original judgment included the public defenders hours and normal costs incurred, with restitution. It's been long paid, and I've completed the courts requirements. Also, I've requested the documents for the original judgment and certain other points of the case including fee disclosures/agreements and anything related to my appeal.

 

[HRZ]

AS a layman I don't think that a charge of something being way over the top is a winnable line of attack ...and quite frankly it might have been very prudent at the time ...absent some discovery of deliberate overbilling for time or an math error in billing...and quite frankly a few bills for special services to my firm passed over my desk where we paid full hourly rate from time expert left his front door until he returned home - 8 hrs to sleep..that was the deal.

However I'd check my time frames as to statute of limitations, probably from date of my last payment and if this is owed to a sovereign entity exempt from time limits .
I don't know my way around how to count for you.

 

[quincy]

They did not refer the debt to the BOA. It is through a local debt collector. I'm not trying to get a reduction, I'm trying to win in totality on the grounds that it was irresponsible spending that I never agreed to. I believe lawyers are required to provide me with an agreement prior to big expenditures that I've not approved. Is that correct or incorrect?

Ah. I think I am misunderstanding your posts. Sorry.

The key word with attorney fees, and attorney-client communications, is "reasonable." Reasonable fees. Reasonable communication.

It can also be described as reasonable to expect an attorney to use his professional judgment when deciding how best to present a case to the court and jury.

Following is a link to a South Dakota Supreme Court Opinon in an attorney disciplinary action that includes a legal analysis of "reasonable" as it relates to attorney fees. Although you might want to read the entire opinion, the analysis starts at paragraph 21.

In the Matter of the Discipline of Charles L. Dorothy:http://ujs.sd.gov/Supreme_Court/opiniondetail.aspx?ID=231

It is not unusual for a court to reduce or "tweak" the amount of costs and fees submitted to the court by a court-appointed attorney at the end of a case. A court might reduce the amount because it finds the amount requested unreasonable or excessive for the time, labor and expenses documented.

If the public defender has been trying to collect from you the amount leftover or in excess of what the court approved 7 years ago, you might have a statute of limitations defense to the collection action. If the debt is not a state judgment (which has a 20 year SOL), I believe the limit for filing is 6 years. See: http://sdlegislature.gov/Statutes/Codified_Laws/DisplayStatute.aspx?Type=Statute&Statute=15-2-13

Good luck.

 

[Zigner]

A Public Defender is supposed to be free, even if you are guilty.

That is not true in many situations.

 

[NeelyC]

Thank you. I read both links, but am still confused. How can I go about finding the specific statute, and does the statute change if the judge did not order me to pay it?
Also, if I never agreed to the charges that the judge did not order, am I really liable?

 

[quincy]

You can try the link below for all statutes of limitations in South Dakota:

http://sdlegislature.gov/Statutes/Codified_Laws/DisplayStatute.aspx?Type=Statute&Statute=15-2

If an attorney incurs expenses in a case during the course of representing a client, technically the attorney should be able to bill the client for these costs. An attorney is not expected to spend his own money on behalf of a client.

In your case, I honestly don't know if you can be held responsible for attorney costs in excess of the amount approved by the court. Apparently the public defender who represented you seems to think you can.

 

[LdiJ]

You can try the link below for all statutes of limitations in South Dakota:

http://sdlegislature.gov/Statutes/Codified_Laws/DisplayStatute.aspx?Type=Statute&Statute=15-2

If an attorney incurs expenses in a case during the course of representing a client, technically the attorney should be able to bill the client for these costs. An attorney is not expected to spend his own money on behalf of a client.

In your case, I honestly don't know if you can be held responsible for attorney costs in excess of the amount approved by the court. Apparently the public defender who represented you seems to think you can.

Or, just sold it to a collection agency, without ever even attempting to bill the OP, just to get some money towards expenses the judge did not agree that the OP owed. Alleged creditors turning things over to collections without either resolving disputes or just plain in bad faith, has become an epidemic.