SSI overpayment for deceased recipient

[xylene]

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0502201021

If an estate does not exist, seek recovery from the liable representative payee or the liable spouse.
If there is neither a liable representative payee nor a liable spouse, discontinue recovery efforts.

The OP is the jointly liable representative payee.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202205007

 

[Janke]

The language is not what I would like, but is implied that POMS reference that the persons who actually received or constructively received the overpaid funds has to be liable, not someone who did not receive the overpaid funds. Liability would not extend to someone who had no control, no knowledge, no ability to take direct action at the time the overpayment occurred and did not spend any of the money. That makes no sense. The former payee, if there was one, would be jointly liable if they had been payee at the time the overpayment occurred. In this case, it was the recipient and she was her own payee, although headed into dementia. So I don't agree that the OP is jointly liable.

 

[HRZ]

The representative payee who played noroll in the overpayment perhaps has as no roll In any recovery :


B. The representative payee is personally liable if he or she:
1. Was at fault in creating the overpayment; or
2. Did not apply the monies for the beneficiary's use and benefit."

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.19/handbook-1906.html

 

[LuvMa]

Wow thank you for all these technical informations. At the same time I realize how naive I was in taking the SSA agent recommendation as my mom's representative payee.

Is there any SSI technical expert in every SSA office?

 

[xylene]

Is there any SSI technical expert in every SSA office?

No. It is an adversarial situation. The 'customer service' vibe exists only to screw you. You need a lawyer, and you need to open probate. Again, estate doesn't mean there was money left over to distribute.

 

[Janke]

There can be more than one SSI TE, depending upon the size of the office. But you don't get to talk to them just because you want to. The front line staff is supposed to handle simple issues, but you never know the job title of the person who will call your number.

I don't think you need a lawyer or need to open probate in order to resolve this overpayment. Print the link I gave you. That is what the office should be following. Try that first. Easier.

 

[LuvMa]

There can be more than one SSI TE, depending upon the size of the office. But you don't get to talk to them just because you want to. The front line staff is supposed to handle simple issues, but you never know the job title of the person who will call your number.

I don't think you need a lawyer or need to open probate in order to resolve this overpayment. Print the link I gave you. That is what the office should be following. Try that first. Easier.

I am going back next week; see whether I will be able to request meeting with the supervisor.
Thank you so much for your expertise advice.

 

[HRZ]

Also print out and take copy of section 1906 in handbook I referenced ...you should not be responsible for errors before your watch if those specific funds were not there in pot for you to spend when you were named

 

[xylene]

Also print out and take copy of section 1906 in handbook I referenced ...you should not be responsible for errors before your watch if those specific funds were not there in pot for you to spend when you were named

Hiring a forensic accountant gonna be a lot cheaper than small estate probate....

 

[HRZ]

Probating an empty pot gets nobody anywhere .

The only point with any merit is question of if representative payee is personally liable ...and if overpayments were before the appointment then that is 1/2 of the critical facts ...and the remaining 1/2 is if pot with excess funds was there and turned over to payee at the time ...??

 

[Janke]

Hiring a forensic accountant gonna be a lot cheaper than small estate probate....

Speaking from first hand experience. Every day an SSI recipient dies with an uncollected balance on an overpayment. In this case, the original poster is a representative payee who was not party to the overpayment in any way so is not liable for repayment. Most SSI recipients are penniless. The OP stated that family members paid for the funeral. SSA cannot collect money when there is no money to collect. Once all of that is established, then this overpayment will be determined to be uncollectable. At zero cost to the payee. Less than a forensic accountant (and where do you find one who understands how SSI is computed) and less than probating a zero balance probate would cost. All result in the same thing. No one pays back this overpayment.