Rock & Roll star claiming autograph authenticated by TWO eBay-endorsed companies is not real.

[AutographSeller]

I won't say who, but dealing with this very strange situation and wondering what to do.

Last year I purchased an item on eBay that was certified authentic by Beckett Authentication services, a top company in the field. Two months ago I list the item for sale on eBay, and a day later it gets taken down via an eBay VERO claim saying the item is fake. When I replied to the VERO account owner I discovered that it was the actual celebrity himself who took the item down. I explained to his agent (who answers the email) that it was authenticated, by which company, and that they're a major player endorsed by ebay, etc. Didn't care. I then had the head Authenticator at Beckett re-examine the piece, which he verified was consistent with examples on file and what he knows to be real. I responded to the celebrity's agent and got the same answer. I then submitted the piece to another major authentication house, PSA/DNA, and they too agreed that it's real. Contacted the agent and got the same "don't care" attitude, saying if I relisted the item they would keep taking it down.

So now we have a celebrity using eBay's VERO system to take down autographs that he doesn't like and didn't get paid for, which are authenticated by the top two services in the industry, both of whom are endorsed and promoted by eBay. And eBay is allowing this to happen. If I continue to list the item and get more VERO strikes, my entire business could be shut down.

I checked USPTO, and the celebrity does not have a trademark on his signature. Would like to get some thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state?

Apparently you will need to find another site on which to sell the autograph.

If the celebrity is saying the autograph is not authentic, I suppose the celebrity's word carries more weight than those who say the autograph is authentic.

 

[AutographSeller]

Thank you for your reply. Selling the item isn't a problem. My issue is with the idea that someone whose been signing autographs for 45+ years could possibly make such a claim, and a company such as eBay would allow it. Many celebrities don't like people making money on their ink, and almost all of them charge large sums of money to do personal signings. I know a few A-List actors who get upwards of $250k for 5 hours of their time. So there is an insentive to say other stuff isn't real. People's signatures also change over time and are very different when they are signing in a hurry, walking vs. standing or sitting, cupping the item vs flat on on a table, etc. I've personally had celebs sign as little as 10 items at once and some of them look different than the others. The average person wouldn't know for sure if something they signed last month was actually theirs, let alone 20 years ago. Professional Authenticators analyze pen stroke, flow, and a number of other factors every day of their life. Personally I think the celebrity would know is an appeal to authority type situation, but I can understand why most people would think that. Could I issue an injunction on the celeb, or would it just be a waste of money? I'm more interested in stopping this in the future than anything else.

 

[quincy]

I really think you should just find someplace else to sell the autograph.

You are not going to get an injunction - and you probably will not get eBay to permit the sale of a celebrity autograph when the celebrity says the autograph is fake.

You can sit down with an attorney in your area, however, if you want to explore options.

Good luck.

 

[FlyingRon]

Ebay's circus, Ebay's monkeys. They don't have to let you sell anything. I know of a few Federal cases involving eBay and VeRO and it does no good to sue eBay, your action has to be against the VeRO member, and here I'm not seeing you having much of a case.

 

[quincy]

Even authenticators get it wrong - and when they do get it wrong, they can open themselves up to a lawsuit.

This has happened with autograph authenticators and, even more often, with art authenticators, where millions of dollars can rest on the opinion of an expert.

And that is all that an authenticator offers: an opinion.

 

[xylene]

Hold it until the celebrity dies.

 

[quincy]

The celebrity's autograph is likely to increase in value with the death of the celebrity - but you then have the celebrity's estate to deal with and estates can be even more protective because what is left of the celebrity is now limited.

 

[xylene]

Estates are less likely to hold specific grudges against indiviudal eBayers and can't personally authenticate (or dis-authenticate) their autograph.

 

[quincy]

Estates are less likely to hold specific grudges against indiviudal eBayers and can't personally authenticate (or dis-authenticate) their autograph.

It depends on the celebrity and the estate.

 

[xylene]

It depends on the celebrity and the estate.

Depends is better than the certainty he faces now.

 

[quincy]

True.

 

[adjusterjack]

Would like to get some thoughts on the matter.

Frame it and hang it on your wall. It's tainted and you know it's tainted. If you sell it without notifying the buyer of the celebrity's denial you can be sued for fraud.

On the other hand if you advertise it with the full story, somebody might just buy it for bragging rights.

 

[quincy]

AutographSeller has authenticated the autograph so he can sell it with the authentication.

He just cannot sell it on eBay. As FlyingRon noted, eBay's circus, eBay's monkeys.

 

[Just Blue]

Now I am all curious about who the r 'n start is!! Could it be Paul? Ringo? Ozzy? Robert (plant or Gilmore)...???