Locating a restraining order issued by a federal court

[quincy]

Well, good. I am not up to running.

The designated agency is the one I mentioned, by the way.

 

[gpslouis]

Thank you for the replies so far. Any other comments or suggestions? Again, the main goal is to get a copy of the restraining order. I can do a FOIA request if that's the only way to potentially get it at this point.

 

[quincy]

That appears to be the action to take if the document is not online.

You could find the document appears before your request is granted but it costs nothing to file your request so that is what I would do.

Good luck to you and the other families.

 

[HighwayMan]

I don't see how having a copy of the order will help the OP or anyone else. I don't see how it will, in any way, help anyone get their property back more quickly.

 

[gpslouis]

It might be helpful or it might not be helpful. But without knowing what it says, we can't determine whether it will be helpful.

 

[quincy]

It might be helpful or it might not be helpful. But without knowing what it says, we can't determine whether it will be helpful.

Good point.

I think it was probably issued to prevent access to, and disposal of, any property during the pendency of the action.

 

[gpslouis]

Good point.

I think it was probably issued to prevent access to, and disposal of, any property during the pendency of the action.

Yes, makes sense. The government certainly doesn't want to keep victims' goods any longer than necessary. At the same time, victims are desperate for their goods. Many victims have been sleeping on air mattresses for months. Many people have had to purchase clothes and other necessities. People are living in homes that are largely empty. And even though they have been told that their goods are "safe", it's just not the same as actually having all your stuff back in your possession.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Thank you for the replies so far. Any other comments or suggestions? Again, the main goal is to get a copy of the restraining order. I can do a FOIA request if that's the only way to potentially get it at this point.

FOIA is the formal way to request documents from the federal government and the only one that gives you recourse in court to force the government to give them to you if the agency improperly refuses to provide them. So I agree with quincy that it is really the only way to pursue it. Just remember that the agency only has to give you records of what it actually has. So if DOJ does not provide it to DOT then DOT is not required to give it to you and may respond that it doesn't have it. That's why I think you need to ask both DOJ and DOT. The U.S. Attorney will certainly have it, so DOJ would have to provide it unless an exemption applies. The agencies may invoke the law enforcement exemption if they do not want to release it, forcing you to litigate it if the exemption is not properly applied. That can take years, added to the time to get a response from the agency in the first place and pursue any administrative appeal. That's not to say you should not try. Perhaps you'll be fortunate and get a quick reply providing you a copy. I just want to make sure you know that it's not automatic you'll get it, at least not all that quickly and that it might take some effort and expense to pursue it. Good luck.

 

[quincy]

Yes, makes sense. The government certainly doesn't want to keep victims' goods any longer than necessary. At the same time, victims are desperate for their goods. Many victims have been sleeping on air mattresses for months. Many people have had to purchase clothes and other necessities. People are living in homes that are largely empty. And even though they have been told that their goods are "safe", it's just not the same as actually having all your stuff back in your possession.

I understand the horrible position these movers have placed you in.

But, if your property is in storage and safe, you can probably count yourself among the lucky ones. A lot of the property loaded into the vans was sold by the movers and will never be recovered.

There is currently a restraining order to, I assume, keep the storage units from being accessed and the property in these units from being sold.

There still needs to be a court judgment on asset forfeiture before this property can be released. In other words, the government must obtain a court order after demonstrating to the court that the property does not legally belong to the defendants, this before turning the property over to the real property owners.

Here is a link to the law that describes the process: https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_32.2

I hope the property issue can get sorted out quickly.

Good luck.

 

[gpslouis]

I've done lots of FOIA's in the past, but thanks for the suggestion and information in any case.

Litigation to get the docs would be far too time-consuming and expensive. However, your suggestion to FOIA the docs is valuable because the agencies normally give one of three responses to FOIA requests:

(1) We have what you asked for and here they are, sometimes partially redacted
(2) We have what you asked for but you can't have it at all because of some exemption
(3) The documents that you are seeking do not exist

In my case, if they replied with #2, that would still be helpful because then we'd have some confirmation that there really is a restraining order. If they replied with #3, that would also be helpful because they'd we'd have confirmation that there is no restraining order, even though the US Attorney claimed there was a restraining order. And if there's no restraining order, victims could conceivably contact the warehouse landlords and ask for their goods to be released, perhaps upon payment of overdue rent.

It may seem a bit outrageous to even suggest that the US Attorney would falsely claim that there is a restraining order and I tend to believe that there really is a restraining order in place even though we haven't been able to obtain a copy of it. However, with 90 victims who are actively sharing information with each other in our Facebook group, I can safely say that we've received so much conflicting and inconsistent information from various government agencies that we're not sure what to believe right now.

 

[gpslouis]

I understand the horrible position these movers have placed you in.

There still needs to be a court judgment on asset forfeiture before this property can be released. In other words, the government must obtain a court order after demonstrating to the court that the property does not legally belong to the defendants, this before turning the property over to the real property owners.

Here is a link to the law that describes the process: https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_32.2

I hope the property issue can get sorted out quickly.

Good luck.

Thanks! That clarifies part of the process. It's much more information than we've gotten from any of the government agencies.

 

[quincy]

Thanks! That clarifies part of the process. It's much more information than we've gotten from any of the government agencies.

I am glad you find it helpful.

I see in your case several problems that the government must handle. One of the problems is the large number of victims residing in several different states (with more victims coming forward). Another problem is locating all of the places used to store property. Another problem is identifying all of the property. And another problem is that the defendants probably did not store the property for easy delivery to the various victims (i.e., not sorted by household).

The court process is unlikely to be a fast one - certainly not as fast as the victims would hope.

I wish you all good luck.

 

[gpslouis]

There are, indeed, a large number of victims in many different states, but it does appear the government is doing a reasonable job of at least identifying people's goods and notifying them when they've located their goods. The DOT OIG is using their "hotline" email address and phone number to communicate with victims. They've set up a questionnaire for victims to complete to help manage the identification and eventual reunification process.

The government has located, we think, all of the large warehouses where the goods are stored. However, they have not located all of the "self-storage" units that contain some of the victims' goods. Fortunately, some of the independent truckers are now trying to "come clean" by contacting victims and giving them the location of their goods. In addition, victims are helping each other locate their goods by using the Facebook group.

Fortunately, the defendants did, in many or most cases, keep the goods organized for easy delivery to the various victims.

At this time, only five of the twelve people who were indicted have been captured. Three are in jail on a "no bond" status because they are a flight risk. Two have been released on bail. The other seven are still at large. I find this surprising because their identities, home addresses, driver's license numbers, cell phone numbers, etc. are well known. I would have thought they would have been located by now through cell phone tracking or other means. (The names of six of the seven who are still at large are redacted in the indictment but most of their names have become public from various sources.)

Thanks again, everyone, for the information and suggestions.

 

[quincy]

There are, indeed, a large number of victims in many different states, but it does appear the government is doing a reasonable job of at least identifying people's goods and notifying them when they've located their goods. The DOT OIG is using their "hotline" email address and phone number to communicate with victims. They've set up a questionnaire for victims to complete to help manage the identification and eventual reunification process.

The government has located, we think, all of the large warehouses where the goods are stored. However, they have not located all of the "self-storage" units that contain some of the victims' goods. Fortunately, some of the independent truckers are now trying to "come clean" by contacting victims and giving them the location of their goods. In addition, victims are helping each other locate their goods by using the Facebook group.

Fortunately, the defendants did, in many or most cases, keep the goods organized for easy delivery to the various victims.

At this time, only five of the twelve people who were indicted have been captured. Three are in jail on a "no bond" status because they are a flight risk. Two have been released on bail. The other seven are still at large. I find this surprising because their identities, home addresses, driver's license numbers, cell phone numbers, etc. are well known. I would have thought they would have been located by now through cell phone tracking or other means. (The names of six of the seven who are still at large are redacted in the indictment but most of their names have become public from various sources.)

Thanks again, everyone, for the information and suggestions.

It is my understanding that the defendants (or at least some of them) have used several different names and operated out of several different states so I am sort of surprised bail was granted.

You seem to be getting good information through the DOT OIG - and it is nice that victims have gathered on Facebook to share what they know with others.

Good luck.

 

[Taxing Matters]

The other seven are still at large. I find this surprising because their identities, home addresses, driver's license numbers, cell phone numbers, etc. are well known. I would have thought they would have been located by now through cell phone tracking or other means. (The names of six of the seven who are still at large are redacted in the indictment but most of their names have become public from various sources.)

It is difficult to make arrests of 12 people all at the same time so as not to alert the others that feds are after them (though law enforcement tries to do the best job possible to round them all up at once). As soon as some get caught it usually doesn't take long for the others to get wind of it, and once they do they may take off and dump anything that could be used to track them. The first thing they'd dump would be the cell phone. It's easy enough to get a new one with a different number that law enforcement wouldn't know about.