Crossing the border before 30 consecutive days are over and then crossing back again to maintain SSI benefits?

[quincy]

I would be making the trip back and forth by car across the border.

In your first post you said you would be flying back and forth between countries.

Have you thought of relocating to Canada? That appears more logical than maintaining a place in the U.S. for a couple of days a month.

You might want to call the SSA to see if your travel makes you ineligible for benefits. I suspect if you travel frequently, it does.

 

[not2cleverRed]

In your first post you said you would be flying back and forth between countries.

Have you thought of relocating to Canada? That appears more logical than maintaining a place in the U.S. for a couple of days a month.

You might want to call the SSA to see if your travel makes you ineligible for benefits. I suspect if you travel frequently, it does.

MF is flying from California to Washington state, and from there driving to Canada.
MF plans on driving from Canada to Washington state, stay hours? days? and then turn around and drive back to Canada.
MF then will drive back to Washington state and end the trip by flying from Washington state to California.

MF wants to make sure that the vacation to Washington state within the vacation to Canada will be enough to establish that MF has fewer than 30 consecutive days in Canada, thus continuing to have a presence in the US for SSI purposes.

I think that MF is flying to Washington, not Canada, in an effort to... stay under the radar.

 

[quincy]

MF is flying from California to Washington state, and from there driving to Canada.
MF plans on driving from Canada to Washington state, stay hours? days? and then turn around and drive back to Canada.
MF then will drive back to Washington state and end the trip by flying from Washington state to California.

MF wants to make sure that the vacation to Washington state within the vacation to Canada will be enough to establish that MF has fewer than 30 consecutive days in Canada, thus continuing to have a presence in the US for SSI purposes.

I think that MF is flying to Washington, not Canada, in an effort to... stay under the radar.

Ahh. That clarifies it nicely for me. Thanks.

 

[FlyingRon]

I'm amazed someone who legally qualifies for SSI has the resources to do all this (even domestic) air travel.

 

[quincy]

I'm amazed someone who legally qualifies for SSI has the resources to do all this (even domestic) air travel.

That is what I questioned earlier. I think there might be some fudging of income involved here.

 

[Janke]

Actually, it could be determined that although you are not out of the country for 30 consecutive days, that you don't actually reside in the US, you are just a visitor. And you have to live in the US in order to get SSI, not just visit. What dwelling would you occupy in the US? Where would you pay rent? You have to have intent to dwell in the US in order to be a US resident, not just step foot in the country. When I visit Canada, I still pay rent in the US and intend to return to my dwelling in the US and do return to my dwelling. That makes me a US resident.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200303700

But, could you get away with it? Maybe. You would have to lie about where you are paying rent in the US though when doing your SSI updates. And you would not be able to supply any proof so they might not believe you. And although I don't have a link, there are interfaces with the ICE systems that may alert SSA about your border crossings. Or you might slip through the cracks.

If you claim you are a transient with no permanent place of abode, then you cannot claim US residency when you are not in the country.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500835060
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0501410030

 

[not2cleverRed]

Actually, it could be determined that although you are not out of the country for 30 consecutive days, that you don't actually reside in the US, you are just a visitor. And you have to live in the US in order to get SSI, not just visit. What dwelling would you occupy in the US? Where would you pay rent? You have to have intent to dwell in the US in order to be a US resident, not just step foot in the country. When I visit Canada, I still pay rent in the US and intend to return to my dwelling in the US and do return to my dwelling. That makes me a US resident.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200303700

But, could you get away with it? Maybe. You would have to lie about where you are paying rent in the US though when doing your SSI updates. And you would not be able to supply any proof so they might not believe you. And although I don't have a link, there are interfaces with the ICE systems that may alert SSA about your border crossings. Or you might slip through the cracks.

If you claim you are a transient with no permanent place of abode, then you cannot claim US residency when you are not in the country.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500835060
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0501410030

That was what I was trying to get at - yes, is says no more than 30 consecutive days, but if you were outside the US from the 1st through 28th of every month, for example, it could be hard to argue that you are maintaining a presence.

OP's declared residency is California, and they're definitely planning on spending jaunts from Canada to WA to maintain US residency. While on the face of it, this doesn't violate the rules, I strongly suspect that somewhere in the regulations government has accounted for such things. The rules stated on the government website are for laypeople who are engaging in ordinary travel.

 

[quincy]

It would be hard to qualify initially for SSI benefits without showing residence in the U.S.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I'm amazed someone who legally qualifies for SSI has the resources to do all this (even domestic) air travel.

Who's saying they're paying for the ticket.

The relatives might be footing the bill as a gift.

 

[quincy]

I'm curious: Does Canada have anything comparable to SSI?

If mf888 is happiest in Canada with his grandchildren and intends to spend the majority of his time there anyway, I am not seeing why a move to Canada is not being considered.

 

[Janke]

Showing a receipt for a purchase in the US in not proof that the OP stood in line to make this purchase. It proves someone stood in line to make a purchase. Why not just follow the rules? Take two 29 day trips (not in February) to visit family rather than one 60 day trip with a day trip across the border. It is hard to visit for months at a time. Everyone gets tired of each other. Then there is no issue with SSI. Well, except the gift of a non-domestic airline ticket. It might be countable income.

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0500830521

SSI is not designed to support international travel. Not the purpose of SSI. If your family can provide you with an international travel ticket, why can't they also pay your rent? But if you don't report the gift of non-domestic airline ticket, SSI might not ever find out. Unless ICE reports you outside the US and SSI decides to investigate and follow all policy. You might get away with it.

Also, being outside for 30 days also means you are ineligible for SSI until you have been back for 30 days. Another reason to keep the trip under 4 weeks. SSI does not prevent you from leaving the country. If you are ineligible for less than 12 months, you just need to be reinstated. If you are ineligible for over 12 months (whatever reason), you have to start over with a new claim which may or may not be approved.

 

[Janke]

Sorry one more thing I want to say: dont you feel like it's unfair that I am not even allowed to see my family for more than 30 days just because of SSI. Before I got SSI I was able to travel back and forth and stay as long as I like. Im not a criminal, I'm just trying to see my family for a little longer than a month; is that such a crime?

Crime? Who said anything about a crime? You are getting free money (SSI) from the US government (i.e. taxpayers) to help support you as a US resident because you are too old or too disabled and don't get enough money from your earned benefits, like Social Security or a pension or savings, that is sufficient to support you. No one is stopping you from seeing your family in Canada, Belgium, China, Nigeria. Anywhere else. See them as much as you want. Just don't expect to get SSI (free money designated to pay your food and shelter bills in the US) while you are on these family visiting treks outside the US. And you don't have to ask these family members for money like you would if you did not get SSI. Think of SSI as a gift, not something owed to you. You get it when you meet all the requirements, not just some of them.

Since you are from California, and supposedly maintaining a residence in California by paying rent even while you are traveling (you are paying rent somewhere in California even when you visit Canada, right?) you also get a gift of money from the citizens of California as part of the SSI benefits. If you are out of the state (Nevada or Oregon even) for a month, California doesn't owe you any money.

Visit your family to your and their heart's content. No one is stopping you. But SSI will not pay you while you are doing it. You can still travel back and forth and stay as long as you want and can afford. But SSI is not going to support you while you are doing it. Live cheaper the rest of the year if you want to have more travel time. Save or prepay bills if this travel is so important to you. No one is calling you a criminal, just not giving you free money.