Question about using someone else's services but renaming under my own.

[quincy]

I'll try to explain this as simply as i can. A company takes a factory gun trigger and modifies it to have better function and performance. The factory triggers are provide by the buyer, not the company. This company has no patents on their work and don't actually sell any real property, just services. I'm wonder if I send them a trigger to modify. Once its been returned to me can I put my own label on the trigger and call it "john smiths trigger" (not the real name). Thanks for any input. I just don't want to run into any legal trouble. I know contacting the company to get their permission would be the best course of action but, since I'm a just starting this out to see if it even works I don't have the resources to be able to buy a large number of triggers so the company would let me "partner" with them.

Are the original factory triggers patented?

If I am understanding you, you would be buying factory triggers, having a company modify these factory triggers to your specifications, and then sell these modified triggers to the public. Is this correct?

 

[Kinzik]

Are the original factory triggers patented?

If I am understanding you, you would be buying factory triggers, having a company modify these factory triggers to your specifications, and then sell these modified triggers to the public. Is this correct?

Yes the only thing you missed was I originally was going to put my own name on the triggers for resale, however after some other members pointed out some liability issues with that I decided to keep the gunsmiths name on the triggers.

Also according to the manufactures website and patent search, the trigger is not patented.

 

[quincy]

Yes the only thing you missed was I originally was going to put my own name on the triggers for resale, however after some other members pointed out some liability issues with that I decided to keep the gunsmiths name on the triggers.

Also according to the manufactures website and patent search, the trigger is not patented.

Okay. Thanks for the further explanation, Kinzik.

There is nothing that prevents you from purchasing the factory triggers and reselling them unmodified using the manufacturer's name (trademark) to describe the triggers you are selling.

You must not use the manufacturer's trademark in your marketing of the triggers in a way that implies you are affiliated with (sponsored by, endorsed by) the manufacturer. And you must not use the manufacturer's name on any modified triggers that you sell. If modifying and selling, you should check to see if the original brand name is etched on the trigger.

IF the factory triggers had their patent expire over 20 years ago, you can modify the triggers to your own specifications and market the modified triggers under your own marketing brand - but, as noted by others, this is not as easy as just modifying and selling when the product you are modifying is for a firearm.

If you decide to move ahead with anything but a resale of legally purchased unmodified triggers under the original brand name, you should speak to an IP attorney in your area.

 

[Kinzik]

Okay. Thanks for the further explanation, Kinzik.

There is nothing that prevents you from purchasing the factory triggers and reselling them unmodified using the manufacturer's name (trademark) to describe the triggers you are selling.

You must not use the manufacturer's trademark in your marketing of the triggers in a way that implies you are affiliated with (sponsored by, endorsed by) the manufacturer. And you must not use the manufacturer's name on any modified triggers that you sell. If modifying and selling, you should check to see if the original brand name is etched on the trigger.

IF the factory triggers had their patent expire over 20 years ago, you can modify the triggers to your own specifications and market the modified triggers under your own marketing brand - but, as noted by others, this is not as easy as just modifying and selling when the product you are modifying is for a firearm.

If you decide to move ahead with anything but a resale of legally purchased unmodified triggers under the original brand name, you should speak to an IP attorney in your area.

This is great information and just what I was looking to know. Thank you.

 

[quincy]

This is great information and just what I was looking to know. Thank you.

You're welcome, Kinzik. We all appreciate the thanks so thank you.

Good luck.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

She sends threatening letters to any company who sells online and ships to Mass. There's a real question of jurisdiction, but many sellers simply won't ship to Mass for fear of retribution. It's very difficult to buy ammo online. I've had clients who can't buy a knife online.

A few years ago she sued Glock in a Massachusetts court, even though her office has deemed Glocks too dangerous to be sold in Mass

What did she sue based on? The trigger pull law?

 

[quincy]

What did she sue based on? The trigger pull law?

Senior forum seems appropriate. Massachusetts is not Florida, and Florida is Kinzik's state.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Maybe, but I got the feeling the OP might be selling online.

 

[quincy]

Maybe, but I got the feeling the OP might be selling online.

Could be. "Ready to ship" indicates that is the case.

 

[justalayman]

I just do minor gun work for local people. Assembly, changing parts, sighting in optics. Nothing requiring special equipment or tools, just the knowledge and experience. I will definitely look into liability insurance before I take the next step. I have a couple of the triggers already on order but they wont be in for weeks. The issue with the exact part I'm talking about it is for the very popular Ruger 10/22. The after market competition drop in triggers are pretty expensive, $250+. The gunsmithing company that takes your own trigger and converts it to a competition trigger cost $110. They don't sell these anywhere currently. Picking up factory you triggers that don't have any work is pretty cheap. $25-$35 each. So id basically have $135-145 into each trigger. Market them for $175 and make a small profit on each one. Customer doesn't have to wait to send there trigger in and I make a little bit of money. I've been monitoring other people that do the same thing with other parts, custom stocks, bolts, anything that's only made to order, not mass produced, or on the shelf ready to ship. I wouldn't say these items fly of the shelves but they seem to move a good number of them on a monthly basis.

So buy a half dozen triggers. Send them to be modded. Keep them in your stock.


Then when a customer wants a trigger you install one you have and send him on his way. Then you send in what used to be the customers trigger (now yours because you have informed the customer it is an exchange) and when you receive it, put it into your stock.

If you can calculate how many you will need for the amount of time it takes to turn around a trigger from the mod shop, you buy that many triggers and have them modded. Then since you’ll turn in each trigger as you get one, you’ll always have a flow of,triggers in the process of being modded and some in stock ready to go.

 

[quincy]

Kinzik will want enough liability insurance to cover any lawsuits that might arise should his modified triggers cause injury.

Kinzik should have his plans personally reviewed by a legal professional in his area before marketing the triggers to others.

IP rights should be the least of his concerns.

 

[FlyingRon]

The problem with Justa's idea, is that on some guns, the trigger module IS the gun as far as the law is concerned. It's the part with the manufacturer and serial number on it. Not true for all guns, but it is for some. The SIG 250's do it that way so you can replace just about everything else (to include caliber changes and changing the overall form factor) with just "parts."

The other problem is that if the manufacturer really has an issue with you selling the service, they can stop performing it for you.

 

[quincy]

The problem with Justa's idea, is that on some guns, the trigger module IS the gun as far as the law is concerned. It's the part with the manufacturer and serial number on it. Not true for all guns, but it is for some. The SIG 250's do it that way so you can replace just about everything else (to include caliber changes and changing the overall form factor) with just "parts."

The other problem is that if the manufacturer really has an issue with you selling the service, they can stop performing it for you.

I would think the company paid to do the modifications could have an issue with this, as well.

It is a plan that is potentially doable but it carries with it risks that are probably best avoided.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

The problem with Justa's idea, is that on some guns, the trigger module IS the gun as far as the law is concerned. It's the part with the manufacturer and serial number on it. Not true for all guns, but it is for some. The SIG 250's do it that way so you can replace just about everything else (to include caliber changes and changing the overall form factor) with just "parts."

The other problem is that if the manufacturer really has an issue with you selling the service, they can stop performing it for you.

Sigs are pretty unique in that aspect.

But I've never heard of a manufacturer having issues with modifications being done other than warranty issues.

 

[FlyingRon]

It's not an issue with the guns being modified, it's having someone claiming to be modifying the gun but then really just sending it off to them for the work. The first time there's some sort of customer confusion involved with this I bet they pull the plug pretty quick. A lot of the manufacturers are pretty protective of their service organizations and affiliates.