10 year old with a pellet gun outside non display for safety

[Taxing Matters]

Or, even more likely, it can lead to saving one's own life or the life of another.

After looking over the raw statistics myself, I see no strong case that carrying guns has lead to large saving of lives. The data just isn't compelling for that. Indeed, there are more deaths to misuse of guns (accidents, suicides, as well as intentional murder) than are saved by people carrying them.

 

[CdwJava]

A small child (immature, often acting without forethought, etc.) carrying a phony firearm is a recipe for disaster, NOT safety!

I am all for LAWFUL carry by trained and properly certified individuals, but this post was asking about a child carrying an imitation firearm.

 

[TigerD]

I am the most pro gun person y'all are likely to ever meet. I believe "no law" means exactly that. I'd love to be able to buy a 50 cal to mount on my surplus M1A1 tank for a day at the range. I like the idea of everybody being able to carry. But I also dream about a world of personal responsibility. Bad people will always be bad people. They just wouldn't last as long or be as brave in such a world, but I digress.

Side note: I was a nationally-ranked pistol shot in college, qualified expert with every weapon system I touched in the Army from the M9 and 1911 through tank weapons; I am a certified rifle, pistol, and shotgun instructor and taught concealed carry classes for extra money. In the last 14 tournaments I entered, I took home the gold in 13 and Silver in the first. I don't carry concealed anymore because I go into too many places that I cannot legally carry and I don't have the time to keep my skills at the level I believe they should be to carry. I can still out shoot 95 percent of the population and that includes law enforcement. However, paper targets are not street assessments and shoot/no-shoot decision making.

I agree that carrying a toy gun in this day an age is stupid and dangerous. The child has little to fear from trained, experienced people like CDW - , but everything to fear from one of the multitudes of untrained that bought an 8-hour course and now think they are Wyatt Earp.

Americans should be trained on firearms in school starting in grade school and throughout high school. Like it or not, this is our national martial art. Concealed carry permits should be required and readily available to any person passing a background check and skills qualification - a real qualification not merely putting 100 rounds in a B27 at 7 yards (accuracy not scored). Police departments need to spend a lot more money training and providing range time for officers. If you are going to carry a gun for work, you should put at least 100 rounds downrange a week.

Also, back to school kids: My son is 10. I let him plink in the back yard with a BB rifle or pistol. We go to the range to shoot 22. He is a good shot for his age. But he is 10. He doesn't have the maturity to be turned loose to run the streets with a toy gun or left unsupervised with any firearm. Very few kids do.

 

[CdwJava]

Re: range training for officers, this varies greatly by state and by department. In a state where we now see officers confronting handgun-armed criminals with Tasers (yes, it's happened twice in the last few weeks that we know of), and city councils cutting back expenditures in ammunition and firearms, I would not be surprised that at least in my state firearms training will diminish!

I learned to shoot with my dad's .22 LR and then was on my college ROTC rifle team ... back when it was still okay to have such a team on campus - we even had an underground range at SJSU!

On a trivia note, my youngest son learned to shoot for the first time from Cal Worthington! I didn't know about it until AFTER his weekend there (apparently my wife - who doesn't shoot - said it was ok), but, Cal was a good teacher it seems.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Americans should be trained on firearms in school starting in grade school and throughout high school.

While I support the second amendment, I would oppose this idea, as would I think the majority of people in this country. Schools are clearly one place that having more guns is not a good idea. Moreover, it should be up to PARENTS to get their kids gun training if they want their kids to have it, not imposed on all kids by the school board regardless of the parents' desires.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

While I support the second amendment, I would oppose this idea, as would I think the majority of people in this country. Schools are clearly one place that having more guns is not a good idea. Moreover, it should be up to PARENTS to get their kids gun training if they want their kids to have it, not imposed on all kids by the school board regardless of the parents' desires.

I don't think it should be mandatory but it should be an option. Sort of like Driver's Ed, DARE programs and much of the other "for the good of the kids" classes they do that have nothing to do with academics.

And you can do a WHOLE lot of firearms safety training without a gun being anywhere in the county.

 

[Taxing Matters]

And you can do a WHOLE lot of firearms safety training without a gun being anywhere in the county.

Tiger D did not say firearms safety training. He said:

Americans should be trained on firearms in school starting in grade school and throughout high school.

That to me indicates that he believes they should be taught more than just safety (though that surely would be part of it) but also how to shoot guns, which necessarily would involve having the kids practice shooting with them. If that impression is incorrect then perhaps Tiger D will clarify exactly what he thinks should be part of the training he proposes.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I added the safety part separately but I think shooting skills have as much place in school as Driver's Ed.

 

[Taxing Matters]

I added the safety part separately but I think shooting skills have as much place in school as Driver's Ed.

I'd be supportive if (1) the classes were voluntary rather than mandatory and (2) my tax dollars didn't pay for it and other academic programs don't suffer cuts to pay for it — in short it should be paid for by the parents of those wanting their kids to get that training. And btw, when I was in school, that's exactly how driver's education was done. It was voluntary and the parents paid the cost of the course.

And one more thing: the firing range used should not be on school grounds nor should the kids bring their guns into the school.

 

[quincy]

I added the safety part separately but I think shooting skills have as much place in school as Driver's Ed.

As of 2004, Michigan schools no longer offer driver's education or training to students.

Education and training used to be free for public school students, through Department of Education funding, but this funding was cut and now parents (or the students) must pay private companies to get the education and training required for licensing. This shift away from free education and training has led to a dramatic drop in licensing of the poor in the State.

I cannot see any school in Michigan adding gun training to their curriculum, especially when too many students are failing at education basics. I would far prefer seeing students learning how to resolve disputes without the use of weapons than teaching them how to use guns.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

I'm with you on all of that TM. When I was in school Driver's Ed was paid for by the school. No parental cost unless you took it during summer school.

I would support a required safety class though. Put it in health class. But I doubt there is a school district in the country that couldn't get an NRA funded program in place a little to no cost to the school.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

As of 2004, Michigan schools no longer offer driver's education or training to students.

Education and training used to be free for public school students, through Department of Education funding, but this funding was cut and now parents (or the students) must pay private companies to get the education and training required for licensing. This shift away from free education and training has led to a dramatic drop in licensing of the poor in the State.

I cannot see any school in Michigan adding gun training to their curriculum, especially when too many students are failing at education basics. I would far prefer seeing students learning how to resolve disputes without the use of weapons.

I think Michigan may be taking to much credit or blame on this. Nationwide there has been a huge drop in the number of teens who get their license.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/many-teens-dont-want-get-drivers-license

 

[quincy]

I think Michigan may be taking to much credit or blame on this. Nationwide there has been a huge drop in the number of teens who get their license.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/many-teens-dont-want-get-drivers-license

The nationwide drop in teen accidents because fewer teens are driving is a positive, at least.

In Michigan, driving is very much a money thing. The less money you have, the less likely you are to be licensed, or have a car, or have required insurance on a car.

It is my strong belief that guns should not be allowed in schools or on school campuses.

 

[Taxing Matters]

But I doubt there is a school district in the country that couldn't get an NRA funded program in place a little to no cost to the school.

While I understand that the NRA gun safety classes themselves are generally considered good programs, the political activities of the NRA are so controversial that I cannot see many school districts wanting to associate themselves with the NRA for a school gun program. The school board would just be inviting a storm of outrage and criticism by doing that. Indeed, I myself disapprove of the NRA's political positions and as a result I will never be a NRA member nor give it so much as one penny in donations until it comes around to a political position that I consider more reasonable. That day, unfortunately, looks to be a long way off. And my feelings regarding the NRA would make me wary, too, of having them do the gun classes. I'd be concerned about them preaching their political views to the kids. The politics should stay out of any public school gun courses.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

The politics should stay out of any public school gun courses.

Politics should stay out of public schools PERIOD.

I used to teach people to teach the NRA Eddie the Eagle safety program and there was really zero politics in it. But I understand your concerns. I just don't know another entity that could provide the training and is national. The basic program is really very simple.

If you see a gun STOP, Don't Touch, Run Away, Tell an adult.