How do i go about getting my sister out of a skilled nurseing facility after a stroke when her daughter wants to leave her there?

[Just Blue]

There are many resources for her benefit IHSS would be involved as well as many other she is my sister she deserves more than what she's getting

You will have to petition the court to gain guardianship of your sister. You will need the assistance of an attorney. I suggest you call the CA bar assoc and get several referrals and have a consult.

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/

 

[Zigner]

Do you have any sort of medical documentation that backs up your opinion on the matter, or do you just have a gut feeling about this? Without solid proof that the level of care that your sister is receiving is below what is medically required, you have very little chance of overriding her daughter's decision(s) on this matter.

You may wish to speak with a local attorney about the possibility of placing your sister under conservatorship with you as the conservator.
(This is the "guardianship" referred to by PayrollHRGuy above, but it's called a "conservatorship" in California.)

 

[Zigner]

You will have to petition the court to gain guardianship of your sister. You will need the assistance of an attorney. I suggest you call the CA bar assoc and get several referrals and have a consult.

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/

Conservatorship...

 

[Just Blue]

Conservatorship...

Thank you for the correction.

 

[Zigner]

For some general information, see https://www.courts.ca.gov/selfhelp-conservatorship.htm

You should also do a lot of reading on responsibilities that are placed on a conservator in California. It's not a task to be undertaken lightly.

 

[stealth2]

She's not getting her needs met in a skilled nurseing facility she should be receiving treatment from a stroke facility but her daughter doesnt care

What treatment do you feel she is not receiving that she needs? I've had a stroke, so...

 

[zddoodah]

How do i go about getting my sister out of a skilled nurseing facility after a stroke when her daughter wants to leave her there?

As a general matter, a person has no say in the medical and related care that his/her siblings receive. Your sister is in control of her own medical care unless she is unable to make decisions for her. If your niece has a conservatorship (which is what an adult guardianship is called in California) or a power of attorney ("POA") for medical care, then your niece gets to make the decisions.** If you want to make the decisions then one of he following needs to happen: (1) your sister needs to give you a POA for medical care (if she has sufficient mental competency to do so, in which case she can just decide for herself); or (2) you will need to go to court too obtain a conservatorship over your sister.

** - If it's a medical POA, then your mother still gets to make decisions for herself if she has sufficient mental competency. If it's a conservatorship, then your niece gets to overrule your mother (in the same way that parents get to make medical decisions for their children).

her mother her mother wants to come home why isnt she given the right to be happy with the impaired life she now has

If your mother has the mental competency to make decisions for herself, she is free to leave at any time (unless she is subject to a conservatorship). At the end of the day, if she has sufficient mental competency and there's no conservatorship, then all the discussion about what you or her daughter think is best for her is irrelevant because she gets to decide for herself. If there is a conservatorship, then that's the answer to your question.

So...is there or is there not a conservatorship?

 

[commentator]

Sometimes the choices are very hard. The chances of you being able to go to court against this woman's daughter and obtain medical authority over her treatment would be very slim. Also, you may find, as many do in elder care, that the somewhat confused patient will grasp other family members and beg to be taken out of the nursing facility, will tell terrible stories of how they have been neglected or mistreated. And then when it comes down to brass tacks, and you confront the daughter over the bed, fully prepared to take action to rescue your sister, the patient will say, "Oh, I'll just do whatever Susie wants me to."

Getting someone into a full service nursing facility is not easy. Getting them out and moving them to a private home is nearly impossible unless you have pretty much unlimited financial resources and or lots of cooperative family help. If they are at that level of needing care, you'd need a lot of high tech medical equipment at your home. You'd need around the clock in-home caregivers. It takes about 5 reliable, vetted people, so they can cover all shifts, help you with moving, bathing, feeding, changing and treating the patient and allow you to have a life of any kind. There will need to be therapists who need to come in to provide her with occupational and physical therapy. People who take in very compromised family members soon find they can do very little alone, especially if your sister cannot get up and down easily by herself.

If you are really concerned about your sister, you can be an advocate for her. She would be available for you to visit in normal times, perhaps at this time, to Zoom with, or talk on the phone with every day or visit through the window. When things improve, and visitors are allowed in nursing facilities again, you'll be able to be with her in person. Do not be surprised if she constantly begs to be taken home, or tells you how horrible things are there. If you hear something that gives you concern, discuss it with her daughter (principle caregiver). My aunties were very always vocal and willing to check on my mom's well being when she was in this situation, and we worked together after we got through the first tense (are you sure about doing this?) aspects of the placement. But they soon came to understand that when my mother said, "I want to go home! This is a terrible place! I hate it here! Get me out of here! I want to go home!" it was a very valid feeling. It just wasn't possible for those wishes to come true because of the stroke and the situation, but we all did what we could to keep her content. Prayers for you and your sister and this situation.

 

[stealth2]

I don't know how it works with a SN facility, but if her doctors feel she needs to be there, removing her AMA may also reduce what her insurance will cover.

 

[cbg]

How long has your sister been there?

My sister-from-another-mother had to put her mother in a skilled nursing facility after caring for her singlehandedly for years. It is NOT an easy job, but my friend had to go to work to support them both; she couldn't stay home full time. After a fall it became obvious that the mother could not be left alone. She hated it at first and begged to be brought home. After a while she settled in, made friends and began getting involved in activites.

 

[Maymee]

My grandmother hated her nursing facility when she was first admitted. When she was lucid (more often than not at the beginning), she begged and pleaded with her children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren to take her home. One grandson did, despite the family warning him against doing so. Three nights later, he and his wife awoke to her holding a butcher knife and demanding to know why they were in her house.

It was so horribly heartbreaking to see her return and her pleading intensified because it had worked once but none of us were even remotely qualified to give her proper care (and we have several nurses and a couple of docs in the mix).

The best way for you to handle this is, if you have time to provide necessary care, you have time to visit her. Every day, if you can. Leave the strenuous work to the professionals and enjoy the time with your sister. If she’s had a stroke and hasn’t been recovered enough to go home (and chances are, that is the case; contrary to popular belief, most nursing homes are at max capacity and understaffed and don’t eagerly keep patients that could be home), dementia is coming for her. Enjoy your time now rather than trying to figure out how to fight the daughter on something you’re not medically knowledgeable about to do so.

However, if you absolutely believe your sister should be home with you, you can contact a local attorney to learn about guardianship. There is a great deal that goes with that title, so be sure you’re prepared to handle it.

Whether we are young or old, we have to accept that we can’t have everything we want in life. We typically get a firm understanding of that as adults but unfortunately, as we age and medical issues are taking over us, we forget that and it becomes the responsibility of our loved ones to do what’s best for us.

Best wishes to you, your sister, and her daughter. I know it’s not easy.

 

[stealth2]

I keep thinking about this thread. As I mentioned, I've had a stroke. While there are residual effects, I am mostly functional (no jibes from the peanut gallery!). If your sister is in a skilled nursing facility, it is likely that she has more severe trauma.

My Dad had several strokes, similar to mine where he was very functional, but still ... as he aged, the effects were more pronounced. While he was still mentally with it, physical issues came to the fore. I was popping Aleve like no tomorrow due to the physical toll of caring for him.

Anyway, if you are able to bring your sister home - can you physically provide all of her care? Outside help is not cheap. Nor does Medicare/Supplemental provide much. I suspect Medicaid is no better. Can you afford to stay at home with her 24/7? Do you truly understand all that caring for her entails?

Not trying to discourage you, but it's hard work and you need to be prepared. And that's if you can get the legalities sorted.

 

[LdiJ]

I keep thinking about this thread. As I mentioned, I've had a stroke. While there are residual effects, I am mostly functional (no jibes from the peanut gallery!). If your sister is in a skilled nursing facility, it is likely that she has more severe trauma.

My Dad had several strokes, similar to mine where he was very functional, but still ... as he aged, the effects were more pronounced. While he was still mentally with it, physical issues came to the fore. I was popping Aleve like no tomorrow due to the physical toll of caring for him.

Anyway, if you are able to bring your sister home - can you physically provide all of her care? Outside help is not cheap. Nor does Medicare/Supplemental provide much. I suspect Medicaid is no better. Can you afford to stay at home with her 24/7? Do you truly understand all that caring for her entails?

Not trying to discourage you, but it's hard work and you need to be prepared. And that's if you can get the legalities sorted.

I respect everything that you are saying here, but I can't help wondering if the fact that the sister can still communicate well enough to beg to come home, after a stroke, then maybe her condition is not as severe as we might be thinking. I remember when my grandfather had his strokes, and although he never really regained the ability to talk (he could struggle with a couple of sentences that he relearned, but no real talking) he was fairly ambulatory and did not need a lot of physical care. He could feed himself and take himself to the bathroom. He couldn't have lived alone, but he didn't need to be watched 24/7.

 

[stealth2]

I respect everything that you are saying here, but I can't help wondering if the fact that the sister can still communicate well enough to beg to come home, after a stroke, then maybe her condition is not as severe as we might be thinking. I remember when my grandfather had his strokes, and although he never really regained the ability to talk (he could struggle with a couple of sentences that he relearned, but no real talking) he was fairly ambulatory and did not need a lot of physical care. He could feed himself and take himself to the bathroom. He couldn't have lived alone, but he didn't need to be watched 24/7.

There are many variables, including what effort she puts into PT/OT.

 

[Kcrose]

As a general matter, a person has no say in the medical and related care that his/her siblings receive. Your sister is in control of her own medical care unless she is unable to make decisions for her. If your niece has a conservatorship (which is what an adult guardianship is called in California) or a power of attorney ("POA") for medical care, then your niece gets to make the decisions.** If you want to make the decisions then one of he following needs to happen: (1) your sister needs to give you a POA for medical care (if she has sufficient mental competency to do so, in which case she can just decide for herself); or (2) you will need to go to court too obtain a conservatorship over your sister.

** - If it's a medical POA, then your mother still gets to make decisions for herself if she has sufficient mental competency. If it's a conservatorship, then your niece gets to overrule your mother (in the same way that parents get to make medical decisions for their children).




If your mother has the mental competency to make decisions for herself, she is free to leave at any time (unless she is subject to a conservatorship). At the end of the day, if she has sufficient mental competency and there's no conservatorship, then all the discussion about what you or her daughter think is best for her is irrelevant because she gets to decide for herself. If there is a conservatorship, then that's the answer to your question.

So...is there or is there not a conservatorship?

No