sexual abuse

[kenmarhal]

The state is Missouri
What to do when the law is asking you to do something immoral?

I am the aunt to three children who are being molested by there dad. There is a joint custody agreement between the father and mother (who is my sister). Children's services did one interview with the kids and closed the case because the kids were afraid to talk to her. Now the attorney is saying the kids have to go stay the weekend with their dad, even though he is molesting them.

From a legal standpoint, I understand that if there isn't enough hard evidence, the have to go by that. But from a personal standpoint, I KNOW he has abused them based on what the kids have told me and their mother. They are just afraid to tell the investigator. We even have video of the kids saying things but I guess that doesn't count. If the kids do not go stay the weekend with their father, my sister will be breaking the law.

I personally am prepared to break the law to protect the children. It is worth it to me. But my sister is afraid of losing custody.

what should we do?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Let's say you and the mother breaks the law. Where do you think the kids will be living?

While no generally a huge fan of state agencies I find it surprising that an agency that investigates child molestation cases would close the file after one interview simply because the kids wouldn't talk. How old are the kids?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Your sister should get the kids into therapy during her parenting time. Whether or not the molestation allegations are true, they clearly need it.

 

[Ohiogal]

The state is Missouri
What to do when the law is asking you to do something immoral?

I am the aunt to three children who are being molested by there dad. There is a joint custody agreement between the father and mother (who is my sister). Children's services did one interview with the kids and closed the case because the kids were afraid to talk to her. Now the attorney is saying the kids have to go stay the weekend with their dad, even though he is molesting them.

From a legal standpoint, I understand that if there isn't enough hard evidence, the have to go by that. But from a personal standpoint, I KNOW he has abused them based on what the kids have told me and their mother. They are just afraid to tell the investigator. We even have video of the kids saying things but I guess that doesn't count. If the kids do not go stay the weekend with their father, my sister will be breaking the law.

I personally am prepared to break the law to protect the children. It is worth it to me. But my sister is afraid of losing custody.

what should we do?

How old are the children? All three are being molested? What evidence is there? What are the children saying? Video isn't necessarily good proof because of coaching or asking leading questions. Do the children know the proper names for vagina, penis, anus, and such? Or have they been taught "cute nicknames"? What questions have been asked of the children? Who has been asking the questions?

And yes mother needs to abide by the court order. But answer my questions please.

 

[zddoodah]

I am the aunt to three children who are being molested by there dad. There is a joint custody agreement between the father and mother (who is my sister). Children's services did one interview with the kids and closed the case because the kids were afraid to talk to her.

What makes you believe they're being molested when the trained investigator apparently concluded they are not?

Now the attorney is saying the kids have to go stay the weekend with their dad, even though he is molesting them.

Whose attorney?

And, obviously, the custody visitation order controls the situation until and unless someone obtains a court order that says otherwise.

I KNOW he has abused them based on what the kids have told me and their mother.

I get that you BELIEVE them, but that's not the same as knowing.

If the kids do not go stay the weekend with their father, my sister will be breaking the law.

That's not quite accurate. She will be violating the custody/visitation order, and that could put her in contempt of court.

I personally am prepared to break the law to protect the children.

What exactly are you contemplating?

what should we do?

The smartest thing for your sister to do would be to seek an emergency order from the court that entered the existing custody order. She should also seek counseling for the kids to attempt to determine if they have been truthful with you or whether their reluctance to speak with the investigator is an indication that they have lied to you.

 

[kenmarhal]

I don't want to give too many specific details on a public forum. However, I will say there have been multiple hotlines reported from the daycare, which have been dismissed. The daycare was never interviewed or contacted before the case was closed. The school as also reported behaviors that could indicate abuse, which have been dismissed. These are mandatory reporters that have nothing to do with my family, who ALSO are reporting suspected abuse. I can't see why a CPS worker would close a case without investigating reports by third parties. She never called any of our family members who have witnessed behaviors either.

Also, I should clarify- By breaking the law I meant keeping the children from unsupervised visits with their father in order to protect them. I was under the impression that contempt of court is the same thing as breaking the law. I'm still under that impression? Of course, our family would never do anything else that involves breaking the law.

The attorney has filed emergency protection orders, but the local courts are moving negligently slow. In the mean time, they expect the kids to go stay with their abuser. There was also an exparte filed almost two weeks ago that has STILL not been served. The judge denied the exparte for the children and insisted the mother fill out another exparte for herself, even though she didnt want to. He then, granted HER protection, but not the childrens' protection. Which makes no sense to me. In any case, with the exparte not served, the father has continued to contact all day every day. (which is his usual behavior, even before the allegations)

We were instructed NOT to file a police report (for some reason), but the CPS didn't correspond with the police either. We are also told not to involve a child advocate. I can't think of any honorable reason why.

Sadly, we were eventually forced to let the kids go to their dad. They became hysterical and did not want to go. They mentioned being afraid of the things he does to them. This is all on video. Nobody cares. As soon as the kids got back from their dads, one of them immediately told their mother of inappropriate things he did. The next day at daycare, another hotline was called in as one of the girls was complaining of her privates hurting (again). The daycare asked her what was wrong and she explicitly said "my dad did it." CPS was immediately told and they dismissed it. If a 2 1/2 year old, unprompted, says, "Daddy suck my peepee.!" Then starts hitting her privates and fondling herself,.....I think that should be cause for concern. That same child has been having painful urination. Again,, the daycare witnessed some of these actions as well as our family. We have some of it on video.

How could anyone expect us to put children back into a situation like this???

I understand that authorities have to look at things from an outside perspective. Even so, I don't understand why the kids, our family and the daycare are not being listened to.

I also understand that sometimes in custody cases, one parent will run a smear campaign out of spite. We are being treated as if this is what we are doing, when we are just trying to protect the children. We feel helpless and let-down by the organizations that are supposed to help.

Thank you for your help. I am doing my best to try and learn about family law in order to make informed decisions. It seems we can no longer rely on the expertise of others.

 

[LdiJ]

I don't want to give too many specific details on a public forum. However, I will say there have been multiple hotlines reported from the daycare, which have been dismissed. The daycare was never interviewed or contacted before the case was closed. The school as also reported behaviors that could indicate abuse, which have been dismissed. These are mandatory reporters that have nothing to do with my family, who ALSO are reporting suspected abuse. I can't see why a CPS worker would close a case without investigating reports by third parties. She never called any of our family members who have witnessed behaviors either.

Also, I should clarify- By breaking the law I meant keeping the children from unsupervised visits with their father in order to protect them. I was under the impression that contempt of court is the same thing as breaking the law. I'm still under that impression? Of course, our family would never do anything else that involves breaking the law.

The attorney has filed emergency protection orders, but the local courts are moving negligently slow. In the mean time, they expect the kids to go stay with their abuser. There was also an exparte filed almost two weeks ago that has STILL not been served. The judge denied the exparte for the children and insisted the mother fill out another exparte for herself, even though she didnt want to. He then, granted HER protection, but not the childrens' protection. Which makes no sense to me. In any case, with the exparte not served, the father has continued to contact all day every day. (which is his usual behavior, even before the allegations)

We were instructed NOT to file a police report (for some reason), but the CPS didn't correspond with the police either. We are also told not to involve a child advocate. I can't think of any honorable reason why.

Sadly, we were eventually forced to let the kids go to their dad. They became hysterical and did not want to go. They mentioned being afraid of the things he does to them. This is all on video. Nobody cares. As soon as the kids got back from their dads, one of them immediately told their mother of inappropriate things he did. The next day at daycare, another hotline was called in as one of the girls was complaining of her privates hurting (again). The daycare asked her what was wrong and she explicitly said "my dad did it." CPS was immediately told and they dismissed it. If a 2 1/2 year old, unprompted, says, "Daddy suck my peepee.!" Then starts hitting her privates and fondling herself,.....I think that should be cause for concern. That same child has been having painful urination. Again,, the daycare witnessed some of these actions as well as our family. We have some of it on video.

How could anyone expect us to put children back into a situation like this???

I understand that authorities have to look at things from an outside perspective. Even so, I don't understand why the kids, our family and the daycare are not being listened to.

I also understand that sometimes in custody cases, one parent will run a smear campaign out of spite. We are being treated as if this is what we are doing, when we are just trying to protect the children. We feel helpless and let-down by the organizations that are supposed to help.

Thank you for your help. I am doing my best to try and learn about family law in order to make informed decisions. It seems we can no longer rely on the expertise of others.

Has their mother taken them to the doctor to be examined? If not, why not? That should have been the first thing done.

 

[kenmarhal]

Has their mother taken them to the doctor to be examined? If not, why not? That should have been the first thing done.

I agree with you. The CPS instructed us not to take them to the doctor because that would be traumatizing for them.

 

[LdiJ]

I agree with you. The CPS instructed us not to take them to the doctor because that would be traumatizing for them.

CPS said that?? That is crazy.

 

[kenmarhal]

CPS said that?? That is crazy.

Yes! That is what I have been saying this whole time. After CPS dismissed the case, and the kids were hurting after coming back from their dads, my sister did make a doctor's appointment. Still waiting to get in. Time is important here, but again, our family is the only party who seems to care! its ridiculous.

 

[Just Blue]

I don't want to give too many specific details on a public forum. However, I will say there have been multiple hotlines reported from the daycare, which have been dismissed. The daycare was never interviewed or contacted before the case was closed. The school as also reported behaviors that could indicate abuse, which have been dismissed. These are mandatory reporters that have nothing to do with my family, who ALSO are reporting suspected abuse. I can't see why a CPS worker would close a case without investigating reports by third parties. She never called any of our family members who have witnessed behaviors either.

Also, I should clarify- By breaking the law I meant keeping the children from unsupervised visits with their father in order to protect them. I was under the impression that contempt of court is the same thing as breaking the law. I'm still under that impression? Of course, our family would never do anything else that involves breaking the law.

The attorney has filed emergency protection orders, but the local courts are moving negligently slow. In the mean time, they expect the kids to go stay with their abuser. There was also an exparte filed almost two weeks ago that has STILL not been served. The judge denied the exparte for the children and insisted the mother fill out another exparte for herself, even though she didnt want to. He then, granted HER protection, but not the childrens' protection. Which makes no sense to me. In any case, with the exparte not served, the father has continued to contact all day every day. (which is his usual behavior, even before the allegations)

We were instructed NOT to file a police report (for some reason), but the CPS didn't correspond with the police either. We are also told not to involve a child advocate. I can't think of any honorable reason why.

Sadly, we were eventually forced to let the kids go to their dad. They became hysterical and did not want to go. They mentioned being afraid of the things he does to them. This is all on video. Nobody cares. As soon as the kids got back from their dads, one of them immediately told their mother of inappropriate things he did. The next day at daycare, another hotline was called in as one of the girls was complaining of her privates hurting (again). The daycare asked her what was wrong and she explicitly said "my dad did it." CPS was immediately told and they dismissed it. If a 2 1/2 year old, unprompted, says, "Daddy suck my peepee.!" Then starts hitting her privates and fondling herself,.....I think that should be cause for concern. That same child has been having painful urination. Again,, the daycare witnessed some of these actions as well as our family. We have some of it on video.

How could anyone expect us to put children back into a situation like this???

I understand that authorities have to look at things from an outside perspective. Even so, I don't understand why the kids, our family and the daycare are not being listened to.

I also understand that sometimes in custody cases, one parent will run a smear campaign out of spite. We are being treated as if this is what we are doing, when we are just trying to protect the children. We feel helpless and let-down by the organizations that are supposed to help.

Thank you for your help. I am doing my best to try and learn about family law in order to make informed decisions. It seems we can no longer rely on the expertise of others.

Have the children been examined by a pediatrician that deals with sexually abused children? If not...Why? Did the mother or the Day Care provider contact the Ombudsman and ask for help getting CPS to do their job? Has mom place the child(ren) in therapy?

 

[Ohiogal]

I don't want to give too many specific details on a public forum. However, I will say there have been multiple hotlines reported from the daycare, which have been dismissed. The daycare was never interviewed or contacted before the case was closed. The school as also reported behaviors that could indicate abuse, which have been dismissed. These are mandatory reporters that have nothing to do with my family, who ALSO are reporting suspected abuse. I can't see why a CPS worker would close a case without investigating reports by third parties. She never called any of our family members who have witnessed behaviors either.

Are the day cares state licensed? When did they call? What were the options for day care and what behaviors do you believe were reported?

Also, I should clarify- By breaking the law I meant keeping the children from unsupervised visits with their father in order to protect them. I was under the impression that contempt of court is the same thing as breaking the law. I'm still under that impression? Of course, our family would never do anything else that involves breaking the law.

You do that and nothing is proven, mom may find herself with only visitation and dad could get custody.

The attorney has filed emergency protection orders, but the local courts are moving negligently slow. In the mean time, they expect the kids to go stay with their abuser. There was also an exparte filed almost two weeks ago that has STILL not been served. The judge denied the exparte for the children and insisted the mother fill out another exparte for herself, even though she didnt want to. He then, granted HER protection, but not the childrens' protection. Which makes no sense to me. In any case, with the exparte not served, the father has continued to contact all day every day. (which is his usual behavior, even before the allegations)

Has mom let dad talk to the children? And if dad was not served he is not on notice of the ex parte being granted. He is not doing anything wrong.

We were instructed NOT to file a police report (for some reason), but the CPS didn't correspond with the police either. We are also told not to involve a child advocate. I can't think of any honorable reason why.

What type of child advocate?

Sadly, we were eventually forced to let the kids go to their dad. They became hysterical and did not want to go. They mentioned being afraid of the things he does to them. This is all on video. Nobody cares. As soon as the kids got back from their dads, one of them immediately told their mother of inappropriate things he did.

What was asked of the children when they were put on video? Who is trained to interview alleged abused children that was involved with the video? What is mother considering inappropriate?

The next day at daycare, another hotline was called in as one of the girls was complaining of her privates hurting (again). The daycare asked her what was wrong and she explicitly said "my dad did it." CPS was immediately told and they dismissed it. If a 2 1/2 year old, unprompted, says, "Daddy suck my peepee.!" Then starts hitting her privates and fondling herself,.....I think that should be cause for concern. That same child has been having painful urination. Again,, the daycare witnessed some of these actions as well as our family. We have some of it on video.

Why haven't the children been taught proper terminology? Many children that age fondle themselves to self soothe. How do you know it was unprompted? Were you there at the daycare? Did mom take the child to determine if the child has a urinary track infection? If not, why not?

How could anyone expect us to put children back into a situation like this???

I understand that authorities have to look at things from an outside perspective. Even so, I don't understand why the kids, our family and the daycare are not being listened to.

Quite frankly because you are not involved. How many allegations has mom made against dad in the past? The children are young and NOT competent witnesses. Mother has not taken the appropriate steps to find out if the children have a UTI or anything.

I also understand that sometimes in custody cases, one parent will run a smear campaign out of spite. We are being treated as if this is what we are doing, when we are just trying to protect the children. We feel helpless and let-down by the organizations that are supposed to help.

Thank you for your help. I am doing my best to try and learn about family law in order to make informed decisions. It seems we can no longer rely on the expertise of others.

YOU are not the parent. YOU shouldn't be making any decisions. Mother should be making sure her children do not have UTIs or they aren't allergic to the diapers or cream or whatever dad uses to change their diapers. Mom should also try to have a conversation with dad or should have before she ran screaming to the court and had you and everyone else do it.

 

[Ohiogal]

CPS said that?? That is crazy.

Actually it is not depending on the doctor and how many times mom or her family have taken the child to the doctor.

 

[Ohiogal]

Have the children been examined by a pediatrician that deals with sexually abused children? If not...Why? Did the mother or the Day Care provider contact the Ombudsman and ask for help getting CPS to do their job? Has mom place the child(ren) in therapy?

What is the education level of the day care provider? Do they know dad or are they just friends with mom? Has the day care provider tried to "investigate" on her own and gone to CPS about it? Because quite frankly, that is pathetic and shouldn't happen. Come on Blue, you should know better than this.

 

[Ohiogal]

By the way auntie, why are you using a male username?